Greater Anglia Good and Bad Discussion

[SPADTrap]

Whenever you try to explain what is and isn't the direct responsibility or 'fault' of the TOC you get the "I don't care nor am I interested, this isn't my problem it's yours" from passengers. Is that ignorance or just a fact? Damned if do damned if don't. You can't educate the public? :-/

I'm all for not apologising when it isn't appropriate but it seems many demand an apology regardless, the amount of times I hear "not even an apology from a real person, just a machine" so I would say even if NR are responsible for the disruption people still want to hear an apology from the TOC, anything less would be seen as 'passing the buck' or 'not caring about passengers' or 'taking our money to Holland...." so what balance is to be struck? Or am I just forgetting that you can't please everyone?

Just before Christmas upon arriving into London during morning peak I set the PIDS up before changing ends as it didn't work in the country end cab, someone took issue to that and decided I needed educating (as he put it) to wait until everyone was off before making the train say where it was going next...had I not done that (tight turnaround) there wouldn't have been announcements for the next passengers..can't please everyone!

 

[321446]

That is an excellent demonstrator . You really cannot please everyone. All you can do is know they You have done your best, with the tools you have available, to do the best job you can.

In the same stream of passengers walking past my cab after a disrupted journey & arrival at LivStreet I've had "thank-you for keeping us informed Driver" and "it would've been nice to have told what was going on"...

I always say thank-you back to those who are nice. I never argue with those others as I know there is no point, they'll never listen to my side, no matter how true it is. Hence why after my nasty incident a while back I removed meself from Twitter, never to return. I value my sanity & job too much.

Smile'n'wave.

 

[scott118]

Hence why after my nasty incident a while back I removed meself from Twitter, never to return. I value my sanity & job too much.

May i ask what happened? couldn't you have not, simply just blocked the haters? At least twitter allows you the option of deleting..

 

[321446]

Far easier not to go back. There are some sick twisted small minded idiots on there.

 

[badassunicorn]

The other week when there was a fatality at Chelmsford, I was stuck at Shenfield. They laid on bus replacement fairly rapidly taking people either direct to Witham or all stops to Witham. I think this was very impressive to have buses ready so quickly, and as it happened by the time the bus I was on got to Chelmsford, the train I was originally on at Shenfield was a few minutes away from arriving. People were going absolutely mad about the buses and how GA couldn't organise anything blah blah blah. What would they rather? No buses just sit and wait however long it might be? Somebody has died people, show some understanding!

 

[321446]

SPADTrap, I replied to yer message but now can't find reply. Let me know if you got it.

 

[sadgit]

Had, overall, extremely pleasant experiences on AGA recently. Very good punctuality; everyone kept informed of the reasons for the one instance of late running; the new refurbished Mk3s are really genuinely nice to travel in... the one connection I was worried about missing due to their abysmal punctuality both times I'd taken it (connection between the Norwich-Cambridge service and the Cambridge-King's Cross Great Northern service) they made absolutely fine with no hassle, and actually early running for part of it.

So, I am very happy. Things seem to be changing for the better somewhat.

 

[scott118]

Had, overall, extremely pleasant experiences on AGA recently. Very good punctuality; everyone kept informed of the reasons for the one instance of late running; the new refurbished Mk3s are really genuinely nice to travel in... the one connection I was worried about missing due to their abysmal punctuality both times I'd taken it (connection between the Norwich-Cambridge service and the Cambridge-King's Cross Great Northern service) they made absolutely fine with no hassle, and actually early running for part of it.

So, I am very happy. Things seem to be changing for the better somewhat.

you've travelled Liverpool St - Norwich - Cambridge - Kings X, and not a complaint? Crikey.....

 

[sadgit]

you've travelled Liverpool St - Norwich - Cambridge - Kings X, and not a complaint? Crikey.....

I'm stunned myself.

EDIT: Actually, the train from Norwich to Cambridge stank of spoiled milk. Besides that, completely pleasant.

 

[EssexCommuter]

Yes AGA has a timetable, in an ideal world every single day every train would depart exactly on time and all the various services from Southend, Clacton, Norwich, Colchester etc etc would slot in just as they are supposed to in the timetable. But in the real world you have people who deliberately hold the doors open because their mate is late or think it's funny to shove a pen in the runners to stop the driver getting interlock. Or there are late running freight trains etc etc etc. C2C's operation is tiny compared to AGA. Fenchurch is 4 platforms, Liverpool St is 18!! There is just no comparing them. I would love to see you in the AGA control room making all the services run exactly to time even with the brand new fleet of trains. For most people in this world being delayed by 3-4 mins is no big deal. You could be held up by that amount of time in the queue at Tesco's. The national system as I'm sure you are well aware is that a non intercity train is classed as on time if it is within 5 mins of its booked arrival time. And that is a perfectly sensible system. If you commute large distances to work you run the risk of being delayed. And that goes for all people who commute whether it be by train, car, bus, plane.... The big difference is that you don't get delay repay if you travel by bus or car!

I don't expect them to run exactly to time. No, C2C and AGA can't be compared directly but that doesn't excuse AGA. Bigger organisations should have more resources to cope. Of course I would not cope in the control room, but that's not my job. No, if I was delayed by 57 minutes in my car I would not get the very generous £4.50 delay repay, but I would be sitting in a clean, well maintained car.
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Firstly, C2C and AGA are not the same. The both service Southend, Essex and London. That is where the similarities stop. It really isn't a useful comparison.

And secondly let me pose a little thought. If you are on a train due to arrive at 08:30 and you get there at 08:34 you are angry. What if you were in a car? If you expected to get there at 08:30 but got there at 08:34 would you be kicking yourself for being so unbelievably late? How about a bus?

I'm not angry but I do get a bit fed up when it happens every single day. Especially as often in excess of 5 minutes and with no information. Once a train stops, you don't know if it will be 1 minute or half an hour. Delays are inevitable, but trains should be on time more often than not.

 

[dk1]

I don't expect them to run exactly to time. No, C2C and AGA can't be compared directly but that doesn't excuse AGA. Bigger organisations should have more resources to cope. Of course I would not cope in the control room, but that's not my job. No, if I was delayed by 57 minutes in my car I would not get the very generous £4.50 delay repay, but I would be sitting in a clean, well maintained car.

Unless you desperately wanted to cr@p of course. Thank the good Lord for the wonderful train.

 

[EssexCommuter]

A comparison of AGA and C2C goes nowhere but to demonste a fundamental lack of understanding.

It is just an easy argument which from what I can see is to be expected sadly

No, they can't be directly compared. However C2C used to be the misery line and has been turned around. Why can't the same happen on AGA? Just because one company is bigger than the other, you think that is an excuse for worse performance? That is what is sad. You have a better understanding of the rail industry, I have a better understanding of successful business, I don't understand why everyone can't come together. Very sad state of affairs.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Whenever you try to explain what is and isn't the direct responsibility or 'fault' of the TOC you get the "I don't care nor am I interested, this isn't my problem it's yours" from passengers. Is that ignorance or just a fact? Damned if do damned if don't. You can't educate the public? :-/

I'm all for not apologising when it isn't appropriate but it seems many demand an apology regardless, the amount of times I hear "not even an apology from a real person, just a machine" so I would say even if NR are responsible for the disruption people still want to hear an apology from the TOC, anything less would be seen as 'passing the buck' or 'not caring about passengers' or 'taking our money to Holland...." so what balance is to be struck? Or am I just forgetting that you can't please everyone?

Just before Christmas upon arriving into London during morning peak I set the PIDS up before changing ends as it didn't work in the country end cab, someone took issue to that and decided I needed educating (as he put it) to wait until everyone was off before making the train say where it was going next...had I not done that (tight turnaround) there wouldn't have been announcements for the next passengers..can't please everyone!

I can fully appreciate when a delay is not the fault of the TOC. However, my money goes to the TOC so it is their responsibility to deliver the service. If it's NR's fault, the TOC needs to be following up with NR to reduce delays in the future. My contract is with AGA, not NR.

If I am on a train delayed due to NR, then yes, I do expect an apology from AGA. Why? Because it is AGA employees behind the PAS. It's not an admission of guilt, it is just polite.

There is often mention that AGA get compensated by NR after 5 mins of delays. Is this true?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That is an excellent demonstrator . You really cannot please everyone. All you can do is know they You have done your best, with the tools you have available, to do the best job you can.

In the same stream of passengers walking past my cab after a disrupted journey & arrival at LivStreet I've had "thank-you for keeping us informed Driver" and "it would've been nice to have told what was going on"...

I always say thank-you back to those who are nice. I never argue with those others as I know there is no point, they'll never listen to my side, no matter how true it is. Hence why after my nasty incident a while back I removed meself from Twitter, never to return. I value my sanity & job too much.

Smile'n'wave.

When a driver keeps us informed, I always tweet to say so. However please remember that the PAS are sometimes broken so announcements may not be heard.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Unless you desperately wanted to cr@p of course. Thank the good Lord for the wonderful train.

If I did, the chances are I wouldn't be able to on the train as the toilets are often broken. Also, I would have no desire to cr@p on the track.

 

[dk1]

If I am on a train delayed due to NR, then yes, I do expect an apology from AGA. Why? Because it is AGA employees behind the PAS. It's not an admission of guilt, it is just polite.

There is often mention that AGA get compensated by NR after 5 mins of delays. Is this true?

I think it is 3 minutes but one thing that's constantly raised is the lack of info from drivers. Well you'll always get the lazy disinterested souls but in reality they get no, & have no knowledge of delays unless it's broadcast on the GSMR radio from signallers. Train drivers are not responsible for customer service.

 

[EssexCommuter]

I think it is 3 minutes but one thing that's constantly raised is the lack of info from drivers. Well you'll always get the lazy disinterested souls but in reality they get no, & have no knowledge of delays unless it's broadcast on the GSMR radio from signallers. Train drivers are not responsible for customer service.

So AGA get compensated by NR after 3 minutes, but passengers, the ones who actually suffer, have to wait 30 minutes? Surely you can see why passengers blame the TOC?

That is one of the problems, that kind of attitude. There are many things I am not responsible for in my job, but I do them to help people. If the drivers don't get the info, then that isn't their fault. But why don't they get that info? Yes, they need to concentrate on driving, but if we're sat at a red signal then a short announcement wouldn't harm.

 

[dk1]

If I did, the chances are I wouldn't be able to on the train as the toilets are often broken. Also, I would have no desire to cr@p on the track.

Sounds like you do EMU. I'm more Intercity with a choice of & usually working toilets.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So AGA get compensated by NR after 3 minutes, but passengers, the ones who actually suffer, have to wait 30 minutes? Surely you can see why passengers blame the TOC?

That is one of the problems, that kind of attitude. There are many things I am not responsible for in my job, but I do them to help people. If the drivers don't get the info, then that isn't their fault. But why don't they get that info? Yes, they need to concentrate on driving, but if we're sat at a red signal then a short announcement wouldn't harm.

You all use Twitter so why listen to a driver?

 

[EssexCommuter]

Sounds like you do EMU. I'm more Intercity with a choice of & usually working toilets.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


You all use Twitter so why listen to a driver?

Intercity still dump on the tracks. Excuse the pun.

I use Twitter, yes. But what about people who don't? Having Twitter should not be a condition of carriage.

 

[dk1]

Intercity still dump on the tracks. Excuse the pun.

I use Twitter, yes. But what about people who don't? Having Twitter should not be a condition of carriage.

What's wrong with dumping on the tracks? Been going on for 150+ years. Now being tackled at huge cost. I don't think AGA or any TOC could win with many regulars who just seem very very angry.

 

[EssexCommuter]

What's wrong with dumping on the tracks? Been going on for 150+ years. Now being tackled at huge cost. I don't think AGA or any TOC could win with many regulars who just seem very very angry.

NR are doing a lot of improvement works. I often see NR workers at the side of the tracks when I'm on the train. It is well known they all turn away upon seeing a train approach as they don't want to be sprayed with human waste. It's not being tackled on AGA yet, apart from on the refresh of the I/Cs.

AGA were screwed by the terms of the franchise, but there are many things within their hands that they could deal with to start to improve things.

 

[dk1]

NR are doing a lot of improvement works. I often see NR workers at the side of the tracks when I'm on the train. It is well known they all turn away upon seeing a train approach as they don't want to be sprayed with human waste. It's not being tackled on AGA yet, apart from on the refresh of the I/Cs.

AGA were screwed by the terms of the franchise, but there are many things within their hands that they could deal with to start to improve things.

The turning away, again, has always happened. As for lack of change, that's the fault of the DfT & their cock-ups with rail franchising. Serves them right for having to pay 100% of the AGA IC upgrade for CET, sockets & furnishings.

 

[EssexCommuter]

The turning away, again, has always happened. As for lack of change, that's the fault of the DfT & their cock-ups with rail franchising. Serves them right for having to pay 100% of the AGA IC upgrade for CET, sockets & furnishings.

Just because NR workers have always turned away doesn't make it right! It's 2015, we should not be spraying human waste at people. Whilst the rest of the country progresses, you want EA to be held back because that's the way it has been for many years? What is wrong with you? What have you got against investment?

 

[dk1]

Nothing against investment. The current HOBC work is making my loco run much smoother. I just cannot see what's gone on for all these years has to change right now. If it's in 2, 5 or 10 yrs, so what? Things ain't that bad. Get plug sockets & free wifi first as that's what the punters seem to want.

 

[dosxuk]

It's 2015, we should not be spraying human waste at people. Whilst the rest of the country progresses, you want EA to be held back because that's the way it has been for many years?

There's plenty of waste spraying going on in the rest of the country, with no plans for it to end. EA is leading the way with stopping it.

 

[EssexCommuter]

Nothing against investment. The current HOBC work is making my loco run much smoother. I just cannot see what's gone on for all these years has to change right now. If it's in 2, 5 or 10 yrs, so what? Things ain't that bad. Get plug sockets & free wifi first as that's what the punters seem to want.

Then you are as deluded as AGA. I (and most commuters) want on time trains that also happen to be clean. Plug sockets and free wifi would be nice, but let's concentrate on what really matters. I don't expect everything tomorrow, but I do think it shouldn't have been neglected for so long. If we have to wait 10 years, we will be even more behind the rest of the country. Considering the cost of the fare, things are bad. Considering we are one of the few lines that contribute to the government, rather than be subsidised, things are bad. Considering HS2 wants Manchester in two hours, yet we barely manage it from Norwich, things are bad. You see where I'm going.

My main problem with AGA is false promises. I have attended several meetings with my MP, AGA and NR. Rather than pointlessly moan, I prefer to give up my precious free time to do something proactive. NR are currently being very honest, and their work is visible. AGA is another story. They should not promise what they can't deliver, that's all.
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There's plenty of waste spraying going on in the rest of the country, with no plans for it to end. EA is leading the way with stopping it.

We're not the only area, granted. But what is your evidence regarding EA leading the way? Fitting tanks to a tiny % of trains isn't exactly leading the way.

 

[dk1]

Then you are as deluded as AGA. I (and most commuters) want on time trains that also happen to be clean. Plug sockets and free wifi would be nice, but let's concentrate on what really matters. I don't expect everything tomorrow, but I do think it shouldn't have been neglected for so long. If we have to wait 10 years, we will be even more behind the rest of the country. Considering the cost of the fare, things are bad. Considering we are one of the few lines that contribute to the government, rather than be subsidised, things are bad. Considering HS2 wants Manchester in two hours, yet we barely manage it from Norwich, things are bad. You see where I'm going.

My main problem with AGA is false promises. I have attended several meetings with my MP, AGA and NR. Rather than pointlessly moan, I prefer to give up my precious free time to do something proactive. NR are currently being very honest, and their work is visible. AGA is another story. They should not promise what they can't deliver, that's all.

Well I've worked on the GEML for 30yrs and it's always been false promises. Just don't expect too much & you never get disappointed. As for deluded then if that's so I'm happy to be labelled as such. Norwich in 90 is another iconic phrase that makes most of us roll are eyes. Perhaps we should agree do disagree. Being so positive would take its toll on me.

 

[EssexCommuter]

Well I've worked on the GEML for 30yrs and it's always been false promises. Just don't expect too much & you never get disappointed. As for deluded then if that's so I'm happy to be labelled as such. Norwich in 90 is another iconic phrase that makes most of us roll are eyes. Perhaps we should agree do disagree. Being so positive would take its toll on me.

Well, it's the first time I've been called positive, so I'll take that. I don't expect anything, but that doesn't stop me asking. I used to complain on twitter, but it doesn't achieve anything and is very negative for the soul. Do I expect attending meetings with AGA and NR to achieve everything I want? Of course not, but I do hope that eventually some areas will start to improve.

I must admit, I can't see how Norwich in 90 can possibly happen within their timelines, if indeed ever. It would require new tracks where there simply isn't room due to houses. However there is no reason why many other improvements can't happen.

 

[321446]

So AGA get compensated by NR after 3 minutes, but passengers, the ones who actually suffer, have to wait 30 minutes? Surely you can see why passengers blame the TOC?

That is one of the problems, that kind of attitude. There are many things I am not responsible for in my job, but I do them to help people. If the drivers don't get the info, then that isn't their fault. But why don't they get that info? Yes, they need to concentrate on driving, but if we're sat at a red signal then a short announcement wouldn't harm.

Here we go again.

Yes you are responsible for a lot of things in your job. Nobody denies that. On my way to getting you to your job, so am I. One of those things is keeping my passengers safe & informed. Both of which I try my upmost to do. I can only inform you if I have the information to inform you with. It may just be a slow running freight. It could be a signalling problem. It could be something far worse. The thing is, all I've done for the last 5 mins or so is follow restrictive signals, so rather distract myself from them I've concentrated on what I can see in front of me. When, and only when, I have been stopped and sitting at a red signal will I start to think about anything else.

Unless you would like it otherwise?

 

[EssexCommuter]

Here we go again.

Yes you are responsible for a lot of things in your job. Nobody denies that. On my way to getting you to your job, so am I. One of those things is keeping my passengers safe & informed. Both of which I try my upmost to do. I can only inform you if I have the information to inform you with. It may just be a slow running freight. It could be a signalling problem. It could be something far worse. The thing is, all I've done for the last 5 mins or so is follow restrictive signals, so rather distract myself from them I've concentrated on what I can see in front of me. When, and only when, I have been stopped and sitting at a red signal will I start to think about anything else.

Unless you would like it otherwise?

Here we go again indeed. Perhaps you'd like to read what I wrote first? I said drivers have to think about driving first, but that if they have the information, making an announcement at a red signal wouldn't harm. This is the same as what you said, but in different wording.

You say you inform passengers when you have the information and can do so safely. Hopefully, you are therefore one of the drivers I have commended in the past.

 

[321446]

If I am on a train delayed due to NR, then yes, I do expect an apology from AGA. Why? Because it is AGA employees behind the PAS. It's not an admission of guilt, it is just polite.

There is often mention that AGA get compensated by NR after 5 mins of delays. Is this true?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


When a driver keeps us informed, I always tweet to say so. However please remember that the PAS are sometimes broken so announcements may not be heard.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I am polite. I don't know if you cannot hear me 11 coaches back. Please be pite on Twitter etc. we are all human. Except Doris/Sonia

 

[Clarence Yard]

Compensation between NR and TOCs is not as simple as an delay over 3 minutes automatically results in a payment.

Delays over 3 minutes are attributed to cause but the payment is made on an average of delays to trains in that service group over a 28 day period. There are fixed (by the Regulator) average minutes delays thresholds for both NR and the TOC that have to breached for any payment to be made to the other party, the payment being done at fixed (by the Regulator) rates.

The whole regime (schedule 8) was designed as a form of automatic business interruption payment system between NR and the TOCs without TOCs having to resort to legal claims on NR as the TOCS are on the legal hook for paying suppliers (including NR!) irrespective of whether their trains run or not. There is, obviously, also the compensation to passengers to pay.

The above is a simple explanation of the basics of the schedule 8 regime. Apologies if I've missed anything significant out.

 

[jon0844]

if I was delayed by 57 minutes in my car I would not get the very generous £4.50 delay repay, but I would be sitting in a clean, well maintained car.

I drove to work for some time, and being stuck in a clean, well maintained car wasn't all it was cracked up to be. Nearly always it was in traffic, with the stop start process that meant not being able to just take a break and start reading or playing with my phone.

I'd rather be stuck on a train than in a car most of the time. Okay, not a crush loaded train but I generally find quiet parts of a train or if it's abnormally busy (due to say an earlier cancelled or short formed service) will wait for the next one.

You may well find it better being stuck in a car, but unless you can turn off the road and go have a coffee somewhere (with no idea when the roads will be back to normal either, and probably even less information to go on) then I'd say I can't share that view.

Intercity still dump on the tracks. Excuse the pun.

Aren't the AGA IC carriages getting retention tanks fitted during their refresh?