Notice of Intention to Prosecute

[Ashlondon]

Hello there,
I'm a 21 year old university student. I have received a letter 'notice of intention to prosecute' from railway prosecution department . As Tuesday 6th January I travelled from HUNTINGDON train station to LONDON kings cross station. I bought an off peak any time day return ticket where was mentioned HUNTINGDON to LONDON TERMINALS . And I thought I can use that ticket for any terminals in London . So I showed this ticket to one of the member of staff at ST. PANCRAS if I could travel with this ticket to ELEPHANT AND CASTLE station (where my university located) they said yes I could and then they open the barrier for me and I travelled to Elephant and Castle with that ticket . But when I return from Elephant and Castle to ST. PANCRAS the staff at the barrier stopped me from passing the barrier .

Just a note, I attended a software testing demo at the University,as I was already pretty much stressed up with my study and everything as it's the final year of my degree BSc Applied Computing. I'm working very hard for my academic success. I am really focused on my career right now. I don't want to ruin my career for this silly mistake by end up having a criminal records. I am not a ticket dodger, in my whole life I never travel without a ticket and in this occasion I had a ticket as well (Cost £22.20) . It was just an honest mistake. Though it was not my fault overall. I been given wrong information by the member of staff at ST. PANCRAS Station. I didn't have any intention to travel without a ticket, if the staff at the station told me that it was an invalid ticket for my desire destination I would have buy a ticket and I don't have to end up with this situation.

When the revenue officer asked me my details and everything I just couldn't understand what was happening, he was just not listening to me . I tried to explain him everything he was not listening he was just more interested taking my details. I gave him my details he found something wrong in my address and name then I showed him my ID and he took everything properly. He treated me so badly he was keep threatening me to put me in prison and give me to the police. my concern about the officer is they should explain people everything properly before just taking passengers details. They should explain what happens and what will happen ,what they will do with the details. I think every passenger will understand and help them to short certain issues if they treat passenger in a nice and polite manner. No one deserves to treat as scum.

I told them I want to pay the fair or penalty fair or anything suitable but they just keep taking my details I was so scared about everything .I just didn't understand a thing I had ticket and everything but they just kept giving me hard time .

Now they found two offence against me and I don't know what to do. In my whole UK life I never travelled without a ticket and I didn't have intention to travel without ticket in this case , I just didn't know that was the right ticket for that specific area or zone . As I read most of post in this forums and I am very hopeful of getting help on my issue. I would really appreciate it if anybody please kindly help me in this regards. Thanks in advance...

The two alleged offences are (21 days to reply back to the letter)
1. Giving a false name and address
2. Entering a train for the purpose of travelling without a ticket entitling travel.

 

[bb21]

So did you provide him with a false name/address? This issue is quite important by itself. What was the problem with the address you provided him?

It's a difficult one, if gateline staff gave you permission and told you travel to Elephant would be fine, then you have obviously committed no offence, but how do you prove it?

The ticket is not valid beyond St Pancras, so on that front staff at Elephant were correct (Were you stopped at Elephant on the way back?), without anything to show that you were given permission to use your invalid ticket to go there.

 

[najaB]

I am really focused on my career right now. I don't want to ruin my career for this silly mistake by end up having a criminal records. I am not a ticket dodger, in my whole life I never travel without a ticket and in this occasion I had a ticket as well (Cost £22.20)...

To set your mind at ease a little, based on this:

The two alleged offences are (21 days to reply back to the letter)
1. Giving a false name and address
2. Entering a train for the purpose of travelling without a ticket entitling travel.

it is unlikely you would have a criminal record if you were convicted. That wording is from the Railway Byelaws which are non-recordable offences.

Echoing bb21's question, what was the issue with the address you gave initially?

 

[Gathursty]

Which, if any, Huntingdon - London Terminals tickets would permit further travel to Elephant & Castle? If there are none, how could a guard be confused by the ticket that OP has presented him with?

 

[Deerfold]

Which, if any, Huntingdon - London Terminals tickets would permit further travel to Elephant & Castle? If there are none, how could a guard be confused by the ticket that OP has presented him with?

There are tickets from some stations to London Thameslink which would be valid as far as Elephant and Castle.

However, there is not one from Huntingdon.

 

[Gathursty]

As OP doesn't appear to be a UK National, I'd make sure in future he double checks with staff that the ticket is valid between the two exact stations OP requires rather than assuming, which I think OP has, that LONDON TERMINALS means more than what OP thought it did.

 

[Deerfold]

As OP doesn't appear to be a UK National, I'd make sure in future he double checks with staff that the ticket is valid between the two exact stations OP requires rather than assuming, which I think OP has, that LONDON TERMINALS means more than what OP thought it did.

The OP says they checked with staff at St Pancras.

Should they have checked with more staff?

I'm not sure what being or not being a UK national has to do with that.

 

[Hadders]

There are tickets from some stations to London Thameslink which would be valid as far as Elephant and Castle.

However, there is not one from Huntingdon.

You can buy a ticket from Huntingdon to Elephant & Castle routed Not Underground which costs £2 more than a Huntingdon - London Terminals ticket.

Same situation applies from all of the Great Northern stations to any of the 'London Thameslink' stations.

Without going off topic, the whole issue of tickets to London Terminals will need to be resolved before Great Northern services start running through the core, likewise for Crossrail.

 

[Gathursty]

Just saying if OP thinks he's not been clear with a member of staff due to a language barrier, to ask another one to put his mind at rest. I'd expect St Pancras staff to have not waved him on and to have sorted it out for him but as I said if OP just said or selected London at a TVM as opposed to Elephant and Castle, you might not get what you want as in OPs case.

I made a similar error in the past but was able to rectify it before making the journey with thanks to clarification on this site.

 

[magd1272]

I question whether there's a member of gateline staff at StP who is misinformed about ticket validity to Elephant. I had a similar situation some months ago, but was not stopped as the journey was only one way:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=106208

 

[Deerfold]

Just saying if OP thinks he's not been clear with a member of staff due to a language barrier, to ask another one to put his mind at rest. I'd expect St Pancras staff to have not waved him on and to have sorted it out for him but as I said if OP just said or selected London at a TVM as opposed to Elephant and Castle, you might not get what you want as in OPs case.

I made a similar error in the past but was able to rectify it before making the journey with thanks to clarification on this site.

Maybe I'm missing something - where has the OP mentioned any problems due to a language barrier?

So I showed this ticket to one of the member of staff at ST. PANCRAS if I could travel with this ticket to ELEPHANT AND CASTLE station (where my university located) they said yes I could and then they open the barrier for me and I travelled to Elephant and Castle with that ticket .

 

[jon0844]

While I wouldn't necessarily have thought of Elephant & Castle as a terminal station, I can see why plenty of people might misunderstand what London Terminals means. Staff shouldn't though.

My parents and plenty of people I've heard at stations all thought it meant ANY London Terminal (e.g. travel from one line into London then transfer, via the tube, to another terminal station).

And when there are various easements, such as using the tube from King's Cross to Old Street or Moorgate on the Northern line, or indeed Finsbury Park to King's Cross via the Victoria or Piccadilly lines, it does get a little confusing.

As said above, it needs to be sorted once GN trains run through the core.

 

[Ashlondon]

Yeah there was issue with postcode he couldn't find the address on the spot but later he took my ID and put the right name & address on . And I have received the letter in my address in my name obviously.

There is no barrier at elephant and castle network rail station so I passed that station without any problem but they stopped me in ST. Pancras station. I did try to explain them everything they didn't listen, I wanted to pay as well. But the officer was telling me not to worry but I did panic. he said network rail will send me a letter and there's nothing to worry about. he was saying it was nothing so serious but now I am in deep trouble ...Don't know what to do now????

 

[najaB]

he said network rail will send me a letter and there's nothing to worry about. he was saying it was nothing so serious but now I am in deep trouble ...Don't know what to do now????

You are not in as deep trouble as you think. As I posted above, the wording of the letter indicates that they are considering prosecuting you for a Railway Byelaws offence. These are not recordable which means you would not receive a criminal record and it wouldn't affect your career.

That said, I believe if you write back explaining that you were following advice given to you by a staff member, that you understand now that the advice was wrong, and that you want to pay for the correct fare plus any costs they have incurred in processing the case, there is a good chance that they will drop the prosecution.

 

[Ashlondon]

So did you provide him with a false name/address? This issue is quite important by itself. What was the problem with the address you provided him?

It's a difficult one, if gateline staff gave you permission and told you travel to Elephant would be fine, then you have obviously committed no offence, but how do you prove it?

The ticket is not valid beyond St Pancras, so on that front staff at Elephant were correct (Were you stopped at Elephant on the way back?), without anything to show that you were given permission to use your invalid ticket to go there.

You are not in as deep trouble as you think. As I posted above, the wording of the letter indicates that they are considering prosecuting you for a Railway Byelaws offence. These are not recordable which means you would not receive a criminal record and it wouldn't affect your career.

That said, I believe if you write back explaining that you were following advice given to you by a staff member, that you understand now that the advice was wrong, and that you want to pay for the correct fare plus any costs they have incurred in processing the case, there is a good chance that they will drop the prosecution.

Thanks for your valuable advice. I will write them back tomorrow explaining everything. Shall I call their helpline number (Mentioned in the letter) before I reply to the letter?? Do I need to be apologetic in my wording??

 

[DelayRepay]

Thanks for your valuable advice. I will write them back tomorrow explaining everything. Shall I call their helpline number (Mentioned in the letter) before I reply to the letter?? Do I need to be apologetic in my wording??

If you're confident speaking on the phone then you can try calling. Personally, I would write so I could be sure I'd made my point clearly. If you write, you also have a record because you can keep a copy of the letter.

If you decide to write, I suggest keeping the letter brief and leaving out the things about being stressed as this is not the railway's problem. Simply explain what happened and offer to pay the fare owed.

I think you should post a copy of your letter here (removing any personal information) and someone will have a look at it before you post it.

One thing the train company may question is, if this is a regular journey to university, how come you didn't know what ticket you needed? Was this the first time you'd had to go to Elephant?

 

[Ashlondon]

I would love to take everyone's advice here and try to settle this out of court. Would you guys mind to have a look at my letter please? I would love to take advice from you guys to make this letter more appropriate and brief. Thanks a lot guys...You guys been very very helpful... Much appreciated!!


Dear Sir/Madam,



I accept the liability that I was travelling without an appropriate ticket. I boarded your company’s train service at Huntingdon station with the intent to travel to King’s Cross station on the 6th of January. As later I had to travel to elephant and castle station I asked one of the members of staff at ST. Pancras station if I was eligible to travel to Elephant and Castle station with my off peak day return ticket, as it was mentioned LONDON TERMINALS (Huntingdon-London Terminals) in that ticket. So I asked one of the members of staff at ST. Pancras station that if I was eligible to travel with that ticket to elephant and castle station. The staff looked at my ticket and said yes. Then that staff opened the barrier for me. So I travelled to elephant and castle station with that ticket. As there was no barrier at Elephant castle station, so nobody stopped me there. But when I came back from Elephant and Castle to ST. Pancras the staff at the barrier stopped me. The staff said It was not an appropriate ticket for travel between these stations.

Upon being stopped by the Revenue Protection Inspector, I cooperated willingly to clarify my honest mistake and provided personal information to aid his work. As there was some issue with my name and address, but he the officer get it right from my ID in the end. At that time, I was under great stress from my studies and I was very nervous with the questionaries by the Revenue Protection Inspector. I was very scared as it was my first-time experience. I'm deeply sorry for any inconvenience that might cause to that officer regarding my name and address.I was willing to pay for the ticket price, but however I did not have the means to pay due to my financial circumstances at that time. From my conversations with the Revenue Protection Inspector, I was under the impression that I was only being contacted to pay the ticket price or Penalty Fare. As you can imagine, receiving this prosecution notice has placed me under unduly stress.


I have to stress it was not my intention to defraud Govia Thameslink Railway and I sympathise with the need for ticket enforcement to root out dishonest fare dodgers. I didn't have any intention or whatsoever to travel without a ticket. As I had been given wrong information by the staff at ST.Pancras station that led me to mistakenly travel without a ticket. Though I had an off peak day return ticket from HUNTINGDON To LONDON TERMINALS. It was an honest mistake, I offer my sincerest apologies for my idiotic mistake.

This is my first incident and it will also be my last. I would love to pay the correct fare and any costs that have incurred in processing of the case.

Again, I apologise profusely for my error.


Yours faithfully,

***

 

[Ashlondon]

If you're confident speaking on the phone then you can try calling. Personally, I would write so I could be sure I'd made my point clearly. If you write, you also have a record because you can keep a copy of the letter.

If you decide to write, I suggest keeping the letter brief and leaving out the things about being stressed as this is not the railway's problem. Simply explain what happened and offer to pay the fare owed.

I think you should post a copy of your letter here (removing any personal information) and someone will have a look at it before you post it.

One thing the train company may question is, if this is a regular journey to university, how come you didn't know what ticket you needed? Was this the first time you'd had to go to Elephant?

In my letter should I skip or mention information about my university . as that officer didn't ask me anything about my university. I just told him that I am a student. should this letter need to hand written or computer typed. can i use spare of paper to write down the letter or i should wirte down on the provided paper as there's little space to write on that provided paper where is an option for my signature.... and print.....

what does this mean

"If you are disputing that the person named is you please provide additional evidence that can assist with this case."

Signed by Passenger :......... Print:...........

do I have to send any supporting documents as an evidence, like my bank statement or something. if I have to send my bank statement or ticket as an evidence I can send it as I have it. Though I don't have that ticket(as that ticket took by officer and another part by the machine) for that day(6th January) but I have it on my statement.

what do you suggest?

 

[bb21]

In my letter should I skip or mention information about my university . as that officer didn't ask me anything about my university. I just told him that I am a student. should this letter need to hand written or computer typed. can i use spare of paper to write down the letter or i should wirte down on the provided paper as there's little space to write on that provided paper where is an option for my signature.... and print.....

Handwritten or typed, both are fine, although if you are unable to write neatly and legibly then it is recommend that you type up your response. If you do it on a separate sheet of paper, make sure you indicate so in the original space provided.

If you weren't asked about your university, I think it is wise to leave it out.

what does this mean

"If you are disputing that the person named is you please provide additional evidence that can assist with this case."

Signed by Passenger :......... Print:...........

do I have to send any supporting documents as an evidence, like my bank statement or something. if I have to send my bank statement or ticket as an evidence I can send it as I have it. Though I don't have that ticket(as that ticket took by officer and another part by the machine) for that day(6th January) but I have it on my statement.

what do you suggest?

That means if you don't think you are the person caught, then you can provide evidence to dispute it. Since you were indeed the person being reported, that part is not relevant to you.

Some people do make false declarations, but if caught, the penalties would be much more severe.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

You could tidy up the grammar a bit and insert speech marks where you have included what staff have said.

 

[Ashlondon]

just a few questions to make myself clear...

do i have to put my signature anywhere in this letter ?

do i have to provide my bank statement or tickets for some reason to prove i'm not a faredodger or prove my name and address from my statement?

Is this letter okay to send? (please kindly have a look above letter)

 

[Llanigraham]

just a few questions to make myself clear...

do i have to put my signature anywhere in this letter ?

do i have to provide my bank statement or tickets for some reason to prove i'm not a faredodger or prove my name and address from my statement?

Is this letter okay to send? (please kindly have a look above letter)

1/ Yes. Don't you sign all letters?

2/ The latter won't do any harm.

3/ See the suggestions earlier.

 

[Ashlondon]

1/ Yes. Don't you sign all letters?

2/ The latter won't do any harm.

3/ See the suggestions earlier.

you mean just sending this letter will be fine. I don't need to send my statement or tickets.

Except the grammar and speech mark (i will work on grammar before i send). Do you think this letter is good enough to send.

please give me feedback on my letter...

 

[najaB]

please give me feedback on my letter...

The grammar isn't perfect but I understand what you are trying to say, so don't worry if you can't see the mistakes.

You don't need to send your bank statement as proof that you bought the ticket because they already have it. The only reason to send your bank statement would be if you think that your name and/or address are still in doubt - though you received the letter so I'm pretty sure they have both correct.

 

[Ashlondon]

they wanna take this case in court...What shall i do now?

 

[najaB]

they wanna take this case in court...What shall i do now?

If they are absolutely intent on taking the case to court, then I think you might want to consider speaking with the CAB.

That said, if I was in your position, I would plead guilty. It is very unlikely you would win in court due to the nature of Byelaws prosecutions. By pleading guilty any fine will be reduced, and you get the whole matter over and done with quickly and with the minimum of stress.

 

[Ashlondon]

am i going to have any criminal records on my name?

 

[cjmillsnun]

You are not in as deep trouble as you think. As I posted above, the wording of the letter indicates that they are considering prosecuting you for a Railway Byelaws offence. These are not recordable which means you would not receive a criminal record and it wouldn't affect your career.

That said, I believe if you write back explaining that you were following advice given to you by a staff member, that you understand now that the advice was wrong, and that you want to pay for the correct fare plus any costs they have incurred in processing the case, there is a good chance that they will drop the prosecution.

Disagree looks like RoRA sec 5 to me (for the false details).

5 Penalty for avoiding payment of fare.

(1) Every passenger by a railway shall, on request by an officer or servant of a railway company, either produce, and if so requested deliver up, a ticket showing that his fare is paid, or pay his fare from the place whence he started, or give the officer or servant his name and address; and in case of default shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 2 on the standard scale.

(2) If a passenger having failed either to produce, or if requested to deliver up, a ticket showing that his fare is paid, or to pay his fare, refuses or fails on request by an officer or servant of a railway company, to give his name and address, any officer of the company may detain him until he can be conveniently brought before some justice or otherwise discharged by due course of law.

(3) If any person—
(a) Travels or attempts to travel on a railway without having previously paid his fare, and with intent to avoid payment thereof; or
(b) Having paid his fare for a certain distance, knowingly and wilfully proceeds by train beyond that distance without previously paying the additional fare for the additional distance, and with intent to avoid payment thereof; or
(c) Having failed to pay his fare, gives in reply to a request by an officer of a railway company a false name or address, he shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale, or, in the case of a second or subsequent offence, either to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale, or in the discretion of the court to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months.

 

[najaB]

Disagree looks like RoRA sec 5 to me (for the false details).

I was reading that reference to Byelaw 23, but I see where you're coming from and don't disagree with you. In any case, there may be a reasonable defence against the charge that he gave a false address if it was due to misunderstanding.

I suggest that Ashlondon speaks with a legally-trained person (e.g. the CAB) in order to get the best advice.

 

[Ashlondon]

the letter says
i refer to the above reference and your recent letter.
having considered the points you have raised i'm writing to inform you this department will be going forward with the case. A summons to attend magistrates court will be sent to you in due course.

should you require any further information then please do not hesitate to contact me.