Misuse of annual Gold Card

[Lex]

Hi everyone,

I'm really hoping someone can help me, as I'm very worried about what happened to me the other day.

First of all, I have done something really stupid, and I make no excuses.

For about 7 years, I have purchased weekly or monthly travel cards to come into London. Before Christmas, my colleague moved abroad for good and gave me their un-expired annual gold card, valid from Sept 14 before they left. Very rashly I now realise, I have used it after Christmas to travel into London and the other day I was stopped and caught at the station and interviewed by a revenue protection officer for having a card that did not correspond to my photo id number.

He was actually very nice to me and told me "you're not under arrest but I need to caution you". He then read me my Miranda rights, asked me some questions on a pad, and then asked me to sign it. He then also asked "have you been naughty before" (regarding train travel) and I said no (true). He made a call, gave my details to the person at the end, which seemed to confirm I was telling the truth. He then said I would receive a letter which I should respond to giving "my side of the story".

I have no "side to my story" - I am in the wrong clearly, but I need advice about what to say in such a letter - I gather being contrite and remorseful is the best route, with an offer to pay any costs incurred and the value of the ticket? I would much rather do that than have to go to court, of course.

Your help is much appreciated - this is the first time anything like this has ever happened to me. Thank you.

 

[najaB]

I have no "side to my story" - I am in the wrong clearly, but I need advice about what to say in such a letter - I gather being contrite and remorseful is the best route, with an offer to pay any costs incurred and the value of the ticket? I would much rather do that than have to go to court, of course.

Your help is much appreciated - this is the first time anything like this has ever happened to me. Thank you.

You are right about one thing - you don't have any defence so your intent now should be to minimise the impact of your actions. Where you stopped by a London Underground RPI or another train operating company?

 

[reb0118]

Lex,

Hi, we will need to know which TOC (Train Operating Company) stopped you. It may have been a TfL (Transport for London) Inspector if you were caught on the tube.

Each company has a slightly different way (& reputation) for dealing with such matters but to be fair all take season ticket abuse very seriously.

I'm off to bed now (04:00 start tomorrow) but others will be along to give you chapter & verse on the system and their expectations of an outcome. In the meantime you can read the Legal Section of our fares guide for further information.

 

[island]

And in the meantime, start saving. To have a chance of staying out of court the train company will probably be wanting paying for fares you've skipped these past months.

 

[Clip]

You need to clarify whether it was on a National Rail service or the Underground.

 

[Merseysider]

And in the meantime, start saving. To have a chance of staying out of court the train company will probably be wanting paying for fares you've skipped these past months.

I agree. The cost would depend on whether the TOC picks up on the fact it wasn't a one-off and/or if the OP admitted this to the questioning RPI/admits it in his reply.

Either way, I am sure it would be viewed with suspicion if Lex tries to claim it was the only time he had done this - season ticket/gold card/priv fraud are all issues taken very seriously.

 

[Lex]

Hi everyone, thanks for the replies so far - it is much appreciated.

To clarify, it was Southern (not tube related at all).

They know it wasn't a one off - I was very honest with the guy because I thought lying further would just aggravate the situation. And I knew they would check anyway.

I am in place to pay the cost of the original season ticket if necessary and any administrative fees (so likely more, I gather, than the maximum level 3 fine of 1k?)

May I have your opinions on a likely outcome? This is a first time offence.

Thanks all

 

[najaB]

Hi everyone, thanks for the replies so far - it is much appreciated.

To clarify, it was Southern (not tube related at all).

They know it wasn't a one off - I was very honest with the guy because I thought lying further would just aggravate the situation. And I knew they would check anyway.

My understanding is that Southern are more likely to accept a non-judicial settlement than TfL would be. That said, there is no guarantee that they won't proceed straight to court - it depends on if they believe it was an honest misunderstanding of the rules, rather than a deliberate attempt to defraud them.

If they think it is the former, then you will receive paperwork in the post in the next few weeks, which asks you to put forward your side of the story and any reason why they shouldn't proceed with a prosecution under the railway byelaws. If so, you should state that you understand that you were in the wrong and not attempt to pass the buck. Apologise for your actions and offer to pay their outstanding costs. There is a reasonable chance that they will accept this offer.

If the believe it is the latter, then the letter will be less convivial in tone, and will make reference to the Regulation of Railways Act. Your response will basically be the same, but the chances of it being accepted are considerably lower.

 

[Be3G]

And in the meantime, start saving. To have a chance of staying out of court the train company will probably be wanting paying for fares you've skipped these past months.

This amount isn't necessarily quite as high as it might seem at first, because a legitimate course of events in pursuit of the same goal could have been for the OP's colleague to return the annual season to a ticket office for a partial refund, give the money to the OP, and then that money could have been used to legitimately purchase monthly seasons.

I'm not, of course, disagreeing with the consensus that transferring a season shouldn't have taken place. I just wanted to point out that the loss to Southern really only amounts to an admin fee and two times the pro-rata difference in prices between annual and other seasons. Presumably, the main reason for photocards with seasons is to stop the season ticket being borrowed by other people during the original purchaser's ownership, which isn't what's happened here.

 

[TheEdge]

Surely by openly admitting you used someone else's season ticket multiple times has opened the door to a very very easy RoRA conviction?

 

[najaB]

Surely by openly admitting you used someone else's season ticket multiple times has opened the door to a very very easy RoRA conviction?

That's why Southern's prosecutors need to decide if they believe it was a misunderstanding of the rules, or a deliberate attempt to defraud. If they decide the latter, it is unlikely they will accept a settlement rather than taking the case to court.

 

[Lex]

That's why Southern's prosecutors need to decide if they believe it was a misunderstanding of the rules, or a deliberate attempt to defraud. If they decide the latter, it is unlikely they will accept a settlement rather than taking the case to court.

Thank you for your replies everyone,
If this helps, after questioning, it was clear there had been multiple use - I knew they could check. Although this incident appears to be an obvious RoRA, the revenue inspector definitely said I would receive a letter where I should explain myself. Also, given that the fare I would be willing to pay back (plus admin) would be higher than the max level 3 fine in court, do you think this might help (from a business perspective on Southern's behalf) to settle the matter, despite the blatant appearance of my actions?

Finally, please clarify,if you could, whether a criminal conviction for a rora shows up on employment or finance searches.
Thank you

 

[Deerfold]

Thank you for your replies everyone,
If this helps, after questioning, it was clear there had been multiple use - I knew they could check.

This is not an avenue to help lessen your predicament, I'm afraid, but I'm curious as to how you know they could check? Would that be by checking CCTV?

 

[najaB]

Also, given that the fare I would be willing to pay back (plus admin) would be higher than the max level 3 fine in court, do you think this might help (from a business perspective on Southern's behalf) to settle the matter, despite the blatant appearance of my actions?

It makes sense to take a large settlement from a purely financial viewpoint, however they will also be considering the deterrent effect that a public prosecution would have on future potential fare evaders.

Finally, please clarify,if you could, whether a criminal conviction for a rora shows up on employment or finance searches.

Yes, it does show up on a criminal records check if a (prospective) employer chooses to conduct one.

 

[SussexMan]

Yes, it does show up on a criminal records check if a (prospective) employer chooses to conduct one.

Only for one year unless the Criminal Record check is for a position where an employer can legally ask about spent AND unspent convictions. Beware, many employers ask people to do a DBS check with no legal authority and you can report them to the DBS (Disclosure and Barring Service).

 

[najaB]

Only for one year...

I always thought it was five years. Thanks.

 

[Andrew1395]

Your biggest problem is to show that your friend gave you 9 months worth of season ticket. Let's hope the friend never had a duplicate issued. The presumption will be you found the season and failed to hand it in or worse. Being honest now is a good strategy. Apply that at all times as you are this mess due an admitted wilful act of theft.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Only for one year unless the Criminal Record check is for a position where an employer can legally ask about spent AND unspent convictions. Beware, many employers ask people to do a DBS check with no legal authority and you can report them to the DBS (Disclosure and Barring Service).

basic checks ( usually via disclosure scotland) can be requested for anyone and anything

enhanced DBS checks can be requested for a number of reasons not just because a job has access to children / vulnerable adults / is in healthcare

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...a/file/349126/DBS_guide_to_eligibility_v6.pdf

 

[Agent_c]

Your biggest problem is to show that your friend gave you 9 months worth of season ticket. Let's hope the friend never had a duplicate issued. The presumption will be you found the season and failed to hand it in or worse. Being honest now is a good strategy. Apply that at all times as you are this mess due an admitted wilful act of theft.

Is that ticket transferable?

 

[island]

basic checks ( usually via disclosure scotland) can be requested for anyone and anything

enhanced DBS checks can be requested for a number of reasons not just because a job has access to children / vulnerable adults / is in healthcare

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...a/file/349126/DBS_guide_to_eligibility_v6.pdf

It is not always compliant with the Data Protection Act to request a DBS check for "anything and everything".

You also forgot Standard Disclosures.

Is that ticket transferable?

Season tickets are non-transferable, excepting special "bearer" tickets which are sold for use by employees of a company and cost a multiple of the normal price.

 

[Lex]

Thanks everyone -

So based on the facts, may I have your opinions on a likely outcome?

here's a reminder:
I came into possession of an annual ticket valid from sept 14 (worth £2.6k) that was not my own and used it. I was stopped, cautioned and told to expect a letter to explain myself. It was clear I was at fault, and this is a first offence, both on the railways and in general.

Looking forward to hearing your advice - thank you.

 

[island]

Best case (well assuming you don't get completely off due to them losing the paperwork): you will be asked to pay for a season ticket from the expiry of your own legitimate ticket until you were seen by an inspector, plus some additional costs

Worst case: you will be prosecuted for defrauding the railway

In between case: you will be asked to pay about £1,500 being the cost of a season ticket from September to when it was confiscated, including something towards costs

 

[najaB]

I came into possession of an annual ticket valid from sept 14 (worth £2.6k) that was not my own and used it.

When did you get the ticket - in your original post you said your friend left around Christmastime?

 

[Lex]

Best case (well assuming you don't get completely off due to them losing the paperwork): you will be asked to pay for a season ticket from the expiry of your own legitimate ticket until you were seen by an inspector, plus some additional costs

Worst case: you will be prosecuted for defrauding the railway

In between case: you will be asked to pay about £1,500 being the cost of a season ticket from September to when it was confiscated, including something towards costs

Thanks Island - in the best and inbetween cases, does this include a criminal conviction? I presume the worst case does, under the RORA?

I am prepared to pay any costs to settle this - I realise that isn't my choice.

Thanks Naja - yes, just before Christmas.

I just remembered that when I asked the cautioning RPO about "worse case scenario" he said a fine. Also, the BTP who id'ed me stated this is a "civil matter" and nothing to do with them - what does that mean?

And to clarify, a conviction under RORA stays on file for a year? Unless the job is one of the "at risk" categories?

 

[bnm]

I always thought it was five years. Thanks.

Used to be. The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 was amended in March 2014. Most rehabilitation periods were reduced.

• Prison sentences up to and including 6 months, the conviction will become spent 2 years after the end of the sentence;
• Prison sentences of over 6 months and up to and including 30 months, the conviction will become spent until 4 years after the end of the sentence;
• Prison sentences of over 30 months and up to and including 4 years, the conviction will become spent 7 years after the end of the sentence;
• Community order, the conviction will become spent 1 year after the end of the order;
• Fines, the conviction will become spent 1 year from the point of imposition; and
• An absolute discharge will become spent immediately.

 

[island]

You only get a criminal conviction if you go to court and get convicted. In many cases the Train Operating Company is not very motivated to take people to court as the court will take a lot of the amount you end up paying.

 

[Lex]

bnm- thank you, that is reassuring.

Island - thank you for your continued posts. That is what I'm hoping - that the private settlement, which will be more than the maximum court fine, will be an incentive for them to ask me to pay to avoid them taking me to court - unless I am misinterpreting your post? As a private business, I presume that the pursuit of revenue is of more importance than making an example of me?

Any thoughts from you, NajaB?

Thank you everyone,

 

[island]

It is more that the court fine goes to HM Treasury whereas an agreed settlement would go directly to the Train Operating Company. There is no maximum fine for fraud.

 

[najaB]

As a private business, I presume that the pursuit of revenue is of more importance than making an example of me?

Probably, but you can't be sure of it. People have been taken to court over very small fares in the past. What you have going in your favour is that you aren't 'known' to them already, so they are less likely to want to haul you over the metaphorical coals.

Please don't be overeager or pushy about a settlement in your dealings with Southern or it may come across as if you are trying to buy your way out of taking responsibility for your actions.

 

[Lex]

Probably, but you can't be sure of it. People have been taken to court over very small fares in the past. What you have going in your favour is that you aren't 'known' to them already, so they are less likely to want to haul you over the metaphorical coals.

Please don't be overeager or pushy about a settlement in your dealings with Southern or it may come across as if you are trying to buy your way out of taking responsibility for your actions.

Thank you - and yes, this is my first offence. They checked that during the cautionary interview and found it to be true. I won't be pushy, and will (rightly) be apologetic/contrite - but how do you suggest I word the offer of a settlement?