CrossCountry 10-minute reservations - expansion?

[CC 72100]

Last night I was travelling back from Manchester on a voyager, and after moving from my reserved seat in the heavily-reserved coach D (220/4 car) I went for some peace and quiet in coach C, which on the whole was unreserved...

However, a sticker next to all of the reservation screens said that "while seats are available, the may be reserved later in the journey and you will be asked to vacate the seat", with all the screens saying "May be reserved between Manchester and Plymouth".

Now what I've described above is how the seats for the 10-minute reservations are, normally a set amount per train. However it seemed as if the whole coach was now bookable through the 10-minute reservation (or similar) system, so rather than just 12 seats which you could be forced out of, there's now 60-odd.

Does anyone know anymore about this? I would love to know the reasoning behind the policy as it appears unworkable and unpractical on the scale that it seems to have been rolled out on - How many complaints from people who've been forced out of seats/unable to claim 'their' seat will it take to get a re-think?!

 

[Simon11]

Send one text and you have reserved your seat with no more worrying. Doesn't seem challenging?

 

[Gemz91]

Send one text and you have reserved your seat with no more worrying. Doesn't seem challenging?

But not everyone will be aware of this, and many of the older generation still don't have mobile phones.

 

[CC 72100]

Send one text and you have reserved your seat with no more worrying. Doesn't seem challenging?

Which is all nice and good for people on the beneficial end, but what about those who are happily sat in their seat for their 3/4/5/6 hour journey, who could be turfed out at some point, they just don't know when, don't know where, or even if this is going to happen.

If it is just 10-12 seats that are like this, fair enough, but do you think it is fair that 1/3rd of the entire standard class accommodation is liable to being 'taken over' by somebody at an unknown point?

Travellers are pretty used to the idea that if a seat has a reservation then you may not be able to sit there (I always read the label, you never know) but having seats that suddenly don't become yours without you knowing it isn't fair. In my view it is justifiable if there are 12 clearly marked 'you may be kicked out' seats, but a whole coach?!
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But not everyone will be aware of this, and many of the older generation still don't have mobile phones.

And to be honest thinking "right, I've got my seat, so that's all sorted and I can remain it until I reach my destination" isn't exactly the most radical of concepts. I'd have said that's what most people expect, that's certainly what I'd expect, and I don't think that having to send a text to claim the seat that I'm already sat in is reasonable!

 

[Retorus]

But not everyone will be aware of this, and many of the older generation still don't have mobile phones.

Progress waits for no one.

 

[Jonfun]

Previously on the day reservations were located across more than one carriage, now it's all been put in coach C to simplify things.

For what it's worth, I don't see it as impractical - putting all on the day reservations in one coach seems to me to be one of the more sensible ideas mooted. It also means that an available seat in another coach is going to definitely remain available, allowing guaranteed occupancy.

It was also rolled out alongside a slight technical alteration in the order in which the seat reservations downloaded from the server to improve reliability in the event of a partial download.

 

[CC 72100]

Previously on the day reservations were located across more than one carriage, now it's all been put in coach C to simplify things.

For what it's worth, I don't see it as impractical - putting all on the day reservations in one coach seems to me to be one of the more sensible ideas mooted. It also means that an available seat in another coach is going to definitely remain available, allowing guaranteed occupancy.

It was also rolled out alongside a slight technical alteration in the order in which the seat reservations downloaded from the server to improve reliability in the event of a partial download.

Putting all of the 10 minute reservations together - I agree with. My worry is having a whole coach worth of seats in the 'at risk' situation - do you know if this change had led to an increase in seats made available for this programme?

 

[Jonfun]

I don't know, but I don't think so.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd actually rather they did expand it (perhaps having only one unreserved coach) and put kiosk machines in the stations they serve to allow an on the spot reservation with seat selection if you don't want to use your phone. Better than a scrum to board what are very busy trains.

Neil

 

[CC 72100]

I'd actually rather they did expand it (perhaps having only one unreserved coach) and put kiosk machines in the stations they serve to allow an on the spot reservation with seat selection if you don't want to use your phone. Better than a scrum to board what are very busy trains.

Neil

And how much would kiosk machines in every station served by XC voyagers and HSTs cost?

As for the unreserved coach, my voyager last night was: Coach F - Heavily reserved, Coach D - All reserved, Coach C - All seats on 10-minute reservations/could be kicked out at any minute, Coach A - First class. That's it.

That's why I consider it an issue.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And how much would kiosk machines in every station served by XC voyagers and HSTs cost?

Same as it costs for SNCF to have them at TGV stations, I assume.

As for the unreserved coach, my voyager last night was: Coach F - Heavily reserved, Coach D - All reserved, Coach C - All seats on 10-minute reservations/could be kicked out at any minute, Coach A - First class. That's it.

That's why I consider it an issue.

You could have avoided it being an issue for you by making a 10-minute reservation from your phone?

(I agree the Voyagers are too short, and there are few if any XC trains that shouldn't be 6-car, but that's another issue)

Neil

 

[Jonfun]

It's impossible for all the seats in Coach D to be reserved though, there's an unreservable section. It's no different from a TPE train where all seats are reservable except a small few - indeed by having some deliberately set aside for on the day reservations means those travelling at short notice have greater chance of getting a seat.

 

[swt_passenger]

Send one text and you have reserved your seat with no more worrying. Doesn't seem challenging?

Are you suggesting you can now send a text and reserve the exact seat you are already sitting in? I didn't think it allowed that.

 

[yorkie]

Send one text and you have reserved your seat with no more worrying. Doesn't seem challenging?

It is a challenge when there are 2 passengers wanting to sit together! We ended up with seats nowhere near each other.

XC's contempt for passengers can be evidenced by their MD's tone in his letters to Alan Williams in Modern Railways magazine, as well as the poor attitude of their head of fares a couple of years ago.

 

[CC 72100]

Are you suggesting you can now send a text and reserve the exact seat you are already sitting in? I didn't think it allowed that.

From what I gather, the seat is automatically assigned anyway - there is no guarantee that you get the seat you're currently using.

Jonfun - fair point about those unreserved seats - are they where the shop used to be? (What a pathetic waste of space, a 'shop' on a train that only has 3 coaches of standard accommodation!)

I must admit I'm slightly surprised at how the system is viewed - I had expected more negativity - maybe I've just got a traditional view of doing things

I personally don't think that the majority of the unreserved seats on a train should be 'vulnerable' ones that you can get kicked out of (but not know when, where or if), and I imagine that if I asked the question on the street "how would you feel about a seat that while it is not reserved, you could kicked out of at a later stage" the response wouldn't be very positive. If it's a small amount of seats that are like this then people can choose whether to take the risk or not, but when most of them are, then they don't really have much of a choice left.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I imagine that if I asked the question on the street "how would you feel about a seat that while it is not reserved, you could kicked out of at a later stage" the response wouldn't be very positive.

No, but if you said they could reserve a seat to avoid the scrum, it might be more positive.

Neil

 

[Class377]

If I'm already on a XC train and I'm worried about being kicked out of my seat, I do a 10 minute reservation text myself. Problem solved.

Whilst someone may reserve the unreserved seat you're sitting in, you can also reserve a seat yourself. That's the beauty of it, and why I can't really understand the complaints.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Whilst someone may reserve the unreserved seat you're sitting in, you can also reserve a seat yourself. That's the beauty of it, and why I can't really understand the complaints.

The downside is that you can't pick a seat. They could add that, though, perhaps by doing it as an app of some kind rather than a text message.

Neil

 

[button_boxer]

The downside is that you can't pick a seat.

And more to the point, if you're travelling with a companion there's no way to reserve a pair of adjacent seats with the TMR system.

 

[Parallel]

One of my friends regularly commutes to Cheltenham university and this happened to her, train was a full four car voyager, someone reserved the seat whilst she was en route and then asked her to move.

It's a bit of a flawed system and not one I like the idea of. Maybe allow reservations up to 10 minutes before trains leave their origin, anyone trying to reserve a seat after the train has begun its journey will just have to find a free one. (Obvs if a disabled person needed a seat and none available then I would hope train staff would be able to advise.)

 

[D1009]

If I'm already on a XC train and I'm worried about being kicked out of my seat, I do a 10 minute reservation text myself. Problem solved.

Whilst someone may reserve the unreserved seat you're sitting in, you can also reserve a seat yourself. That's the beauty of it, and why I can't really understand the complaints.

That's all very well if you hold an anytime or off peak ticket, but if you're on a season, rover ticket or any kind of pass, you are in breach of the terms and conditions, as I understand it.

 

[CC 72100]

That's all very well if you hold an anytime or off peak ticket, but if you're on a season, rover ticket or any kind of pass, you are in breach of the terms and conditions, as I understand it.

Correct.

I can see the advantage of the system, I really can, but not when the large chunk of the unreserved seats are affected by it. Maybe when my TM announced on Tuesday that customers without reservations should look for a seat in Coach C he should have added "enjoy it while it lasts and don't get too comfortable - you could be asked to give it up at any point". It's not exactly the most relaxing way of travelling.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's all very well if you hold an anytime or off peak ticket, but if you're on a season, rover ticket or any kind of pass, you are in breach of the terms and conditions, as I understand it.

Technically. But I expect they just didn't think of that.

Neil

 

[Hadders]

I think this whole 10 minute reservation thing is very poor and a step towards compulsory reservations on long distance trains which the TOC's would love.

 

[D1009]

Technically. But I expect they just didn't think of that.

Neil

OK, do I take it that you can use the text service to reserve a seat even if you have no ticket?

 

[life210]

Got to say I find the 10 minute reservations system really useful. I never know what train I will get on Friday peak time, so having the option to reserve a seat just a few minutes before is better than no seat.

There have been a few occasions where it comes up with no availability... this is often when there are 2 trains coupled together. I think in these situations, more coaches should provide the 10 minute system.

 

[Bletchleyite]

OK, do I take it that you can use the text service to reserve a seat even if you have no ticket?

Yes.

The T&Cs specifically say "not valid for Advances" - though why you would I have no idea as you already have one if you have an Advance! I guess it's to stop people using the service with an Advance on a train other than that booked, or similar.

Neil
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I think this whole 10 minute reservation thing is very poor and a step towards compulsory reservations on long distance trains which the TOC's would love.

A lot of passengers would as well. Until their train was cancelled, and instead of everyone ramming onto the next one they are told the next available train is tomorrow. Though I'm not sure XC would as it would reduce their revenue.

Personally, if there are enough ways to get an on-spec reservation, I'd be fine with the half-way house idea of just having an unreserved coach or two with all other seats assumed to be reserved. Far more civilised than the scrum. But it'd have to go with a change to the reservation system to encourage people to give up reservations they didn't want. One option would be a charge of £2 to get one but a £1 refund for cancelling it.

Neil

 

[BestWestern]

I think this whole 10 minute reservation thing is very poor and a step towards compulsory reservations on long distance trains which the TOC's would love.

I agree it's a poor idea, but I disagree that TOCs would support compulsory reservations - it would drastically reduce capacity, and revenue. Advance tickets have allowed many TOCs a rather crafty policy of filling trains which are already busy with 'normal' ticket holders, with a second loading of passengers on Advance fares. These passengers take most of the seats, whilst the full price payers cram into whatever space is left. The profit comes from those poor sods wedged into the aisles and vestibules and paying £££ for the pleasure, but the Advance sales create a nice little earner by way of a second revenue stream. Why else would you offer Advance fares on high peak time trains which are crush loaded and for which any other ticket is very expensive indeed?!

Aside from the revenue issue, mandatory reservations would mean a finite number of passengers could be carried, and frankly that would be a disaster.