Stopped by ticket inspector, possible criminal record?

[tnfrhemz]

hello i am a 19 year old student that goes to college.
so last september i was travelling on south west trains to college but got stopped and had forgotten to tap my oyster card and was given a £20 fine which i ended up paying.

fast forward, yesterday the same thing happened but this time i had completely forgotten to bring my oyster along with me and got on the train without it, since i was running late for school. i know this is completely my mistake. so the officer approached me and i gave all my details and was honest. he said that he has forwarded this to the rail people, and they will send me a letter.

i am really scared and do not want anything on my criminal record. I am more than willing to pay a fine but do not want anything on my record as i want to apply for medicine and for future references. what am i going to find within the letter and what are the chances of me being prosecuted ?

thanks
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
i was travelling from malden manor to chessington south

 

[najaB]

hello i am a 19 year old student that goes to college.
so last september i was travelling on south west trains to college but got stopped and had forgotten to tap my oyster card and was given a £20 fine which i ended up paying.

fast forward, yesterday the same thing happened but this time i had completely forgotten to bring my oyster along with me and got on the train without it, since i was running late for school. i know this is completely my mistake. so the officer approached me and i gave all my details and was honest. he said that he has forwarded this to the rail people, and they will send me a letter.

i am really scared and do not want anything on my criminal record. I am more than willing to pay a fine but do not want anything on my record as i want to apply for medicine and for future references. what am i going to find within the letter and what are the chances of me being prosecuted ?

thanks
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
i was travelling from malden manor to chessington south

Back in September did you pay the £20 on the spot, or were your details taken for you to pay the fine online later?

 

[island]

Chessington South does not have ticket gates. If you had not been seen by the inspector, would you have paid for your fare?

 

[tnfrhemz]

Chessington South does not have ticket gates. If you had not been seen by the inspector, would you have paid for your fare?

i pay every single day. but that time i wouldnt have, because i had forgotten my oyster at home

 

[tnfrhemz]

Back in September did you pay the £20 on the spot, or were your details taken for you to pay the fine online later?

details were taken

 

[najaB]

details were taken

This means that you are known to the TOC, which makes a prosecution more likely. That is not to say that a prosecution is inevitable, nor that you would necessarily receive a criminal record if convicted.

What will likely happen next is the TOC will write to you to get your side of events. If they do then you need to respond promptly, honestly and take responsibility for and apologise for your actions.

They may in the same letter (or a later one) give you the option of paying an amount of their choosing to cover the outstanding fare and to cover their costs. If they do, then I would recommend that you take them up on the offer as it's the least stressful way of resolving the matter.

However, because you are known to them they may choose to take the matter directly to court. If that is the case please post to the forum again so that we can give you advice on your best course of action - the advice may differ depending on which legislation they choose to use.

 

[Llanigraham]

i pay every single day. but that time i wouldnt have, because i had forgotten my oyster at home

Just because you have "forgotten" your Oyster doesn't mean you still don't have to pay!
There is that funny stuff called CASH!

 

[Via Bank]

i pay every single day. but that time i wouldnt have, because i had forgotten my oyster at home

Unfortunately, this doesn't look good. If you got on the train without paying, that is against the law. You always need to pay at the first opportunity, so if you forgot your Oyster, you should've bought a paper ticket, or another Oyster card, or used a contactless bank card.

It is likely South West Trains will write to you in the near future (this could be any time from next week to a few months) to ask for your version of events. If one of these arrives, you should reply truthfully, apologise, and offer to settle out of court (but at the same time, keep it succinct, and no sob stories.) You should also start putting money aside now to pay any out-of-court settlement: the amount is usually somewhere in the region of a few hundred pounds, but it varies.

Other members will be able to advise you about how this process works, but the gist of it is that the train companies usually prefer to make a deal where you pay the outstanding fare and their administration costs, and they don't take you to court. But it's not guaranteed. The fact you're already known to SWT makes it more likely (but not certain) they will consider taking you straight to court.

Even if this happens, SWT might still be willing to settle out of court before the hearing. Basically, if they say they are willing to accept a payment to make the matter go away, take it!

Regardless of what happens, I hope the message they're sending is clear: DO NOT DO THIS AGAIN. You always need to touch in and out. If you forget your Oyster you need to buy another ticket. Since you've now done this twice, if you're caught not having paid again, SWT are likely to take an extremely dim view of it.

 

[Mojo]

Do you have a Travelcard on your Oyster or do you Pay As You Go?

 

[tnfrhemz]

Guys im really getting worried about this, especially since i have exams coming up. it's been sitting on my mind since it happened.

what is the likelihood of me being able to settle this out of court. i am willing to pay a huge amount (100-600). even more if neccessary, just so i dont get a criminal record since i am looking to study medicine.

i know i have to wait for them to send me a letter, but do you guys reckon it will be about a court date or will it be about paying a fine?

also, is it possible if i call up south west trains tomorrow, and discuss this matter and ask to settle it now, rather than wait for a letter to arrive.

thanks
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
much needed help here guys

thanks

 

[DaveNewcastle]

You should wait until the Company contacts you, at which time the strategy they have decided to take will be clearer. It is not realistic to expect that they will seek to impose any sort of financial penalty. Either, they will be seeking the fare due and nothing else (possible but unlikely), or they will be looking at the evidence to assess the prospects of a Criminal Prosecution for which they will want to hear your version of the circumstances (likely).
Whether they actually do proceed towards a prosecution will depend on the facts of the Evidence against you. If they decide that there is a reasonable prospect of success, then you might be able to reach an administrative settlement as an alternative to a Court hearing.

 

[tnfrhemz]

so you guys dont recommend me emailing them/sending them a letter or even calling them asap and owning up and apologising etc ?

 

[NSEFAN]

so you guys dont recommend me emailing them/sending them a letter or even calling them asap and owning up and apologising etc ?

Until you have a letter from the train company, you can't be sure what their stance will be. If you try to contact them too hastily, it could make you look too eager to be let off and instead may prompt them to go straight to prosecution. Just wait for them to contact you, then you can decide where to go from there.

 

[Clip]

what is the likelihood of me being able to settle this out of court. i am willing to pay a huge amount (100-600). even more if neccessary, just so i dont get a criminal record since i am looking to study medicine.

Are you not allowed to study medicine with a criminal record then?

 

[Agent_c]

Are you not allowed to study medicine with a criminal record then?

Study, yes. However he'm probably need a clear record to pass job criminal checks and perhaps for professional society recognition.

 

[Deerfold]

Study, yes. However he'm probably need a clear record to pass job criminal checks and perhaps for professional society recognition.

That would only be a problem with an enhanced check as even a conviction with a fine would be spent after 5 years.

 

[najaB]

Study, yes. However he'm probably need a clear record to pass job criminal checks and perhaps for professional society recognition.

I think that only convictions that bring the character of the person into question, or that involve violence would matter for most employers. A RoRA conviction, if declared, wouldn't affect employment prospects for the majority of jobs.

This is based solely on conversations I have had with our recruitment guys in the office.

 

[tnfrhemz]

guys just a few questions lingering on my mind.

the first time this happened, it was a different situation. i had my oyster card on me, with money in it also, but i had simply forgotten to tap in, simply because it was one of my first few days are this new college and i had never really been used to trains. i was given a £20 fine which i payed within 14 days i think

so, what happened a few days ago was worse and i completely own up to it.

I am literally crying at the moment as this could determine the rest of my life. how likely is it that if i reply back with a completely honest letter and own up to everything and really deeply apologize, that they are willing to take an out of court settlement. I am only 19 years old, turned 19 a few weeks ago.

i am even ready to pay up to £1000 just to not jeopardize my future.

so again, since you guys have more knowledge of this, how likely is it that they accept an out of court settlement?

thanks

 

[SussexMan]

That would only be a problem with an enhanced check as even a conviction with a fine would be spent after 5 years.

A fine is spent after ONE year, not five. Full info here.

 

[Via Bank]

guys just a few questions lingering on my mind.

the first time this happened, it was a different situation. i had my oyster card on me, with money in it also, but i had simply forgotten to tap in, simply because it was one of my first few days are this new college and i had never really been used to trains. i was given a £20 fine which i payed within 14 days i think

so, what happened a few days ago was worse and i completely own up to it.

I am literally crying at the moment as this could determine the rest of my life. how likely is it that if i reply back with a completely honest letter and own up to everything and really deeply apologize, that they are willing to take an out of court settlement. I am only 19 years old, turned 19 a few weeks ago.

i am even ready to pay up to £1000 just to not jeopardize my future.

so again, since you guys have more knowledge of this, how likely is it that they accept an out of court settlement?

thanks

I am serious, there is no point trying to contact them until they have got round to dealing with your case. If you ring them up now, then the person in their prosecutions department will probably not have been able to assess the information they have gathered, nor will they have decided what they want to do.

I'm not a legal professional, but my subjective opinion is that the chances of you getting a criminal record are very low. You can only get a criminal record if you are convicted under the Regulation of Railways Act, where they have to show you intended to avoid your fare (for instance, if you travelled with a child ticket as an adult, or if you gave a false name or address when caught.) If your case goes to court, I think it's more likely they will try to prosecute you under the Railway Byelaws, where you can be fined but the offence is non-recordable.

I think the prospects of settling amicably without going to court are good, but you need to be patient. Don't worry too much about it, just be careful (don't travel without a ticket again!) and just get on with your life. It can take months for the letter to arrive.

 

[Agent_c]

That would only be a problem with an enhanced check as even a conviction with a fine would be spent after 5 years.

I figure as much too, but was more about explaining the "fear".

 

[najaB]

I am literally crying at the moment as this could determine the rest of my life. how likely is it that if i reply back with a completely honest letter and own up to everything and really deeply apologize, that they are willing to take an out of court settlement. I am only 19 years old, turned 19 a few weeks ago.

Stop crying. No, seriously, your life isn't over. It's a serious matter, but it's not nearly as bad as you fear that it is.

The absolute worst that could happen is you get a conviction under the Regulation of Railways act - this would disappear from your record after one year.

I don't think anyone on the forum expects this to happen.

What is more likely is that you either get prosecuted under the byelaws (which doesn't leave a trace) or SWT will agree to settle the matter.

The key thing you need to remember is that it is up to them to decide what they are going to do. They will take as much time as they need to take. Try your best to push it to the back of your mind and save up your pennies in the meantime. Don't call them or write to them until they write to you - there's still the possibility that they will drop the whole matter.

 

[Benjurs]

I don't want to worry you too much but I'd definitely try to get it settled out of court....

I'm a student on a medical course and whilst my DBS isn't exactly squeaky clean (one conviction is on there from over 24 years ago!) you should be aware that any conviction never falls off the radar for enhanced DBS purposes which is what every medical job will require if it's client facing....

But they frown on anything that involves violence and dishonesty.....Obviously this case doesn't involve the former but the latter could cause a problem...hopefully it'll just be a slap on the wrist and kept out of court...

Best of luck but I'm rapidly realising that there are many ways you can lose a job within the medical profession for an error like yours...

Best of Luck!

Benjurs

 

[Greenback]

I think that only convictions that bring the character of the person into question, or that involve violence would matter for most employers. A RoRA conviction, if declared, wouldn't affect employment prospects for the majority of jobs.

This is based solely on conversations I have had with our recruitment guys in the office.

I agree with this, it's a matter for the recruiting organisation to decide whether any information returned on an Enhanced DBS check is relevant. The recruiter will decide whether any revealed conviction is relevant, and whether it is old enough to matter.

It's not automatic by any means that anything to do with a RoRA conviction revealed on a DBS would result in someone not getting a job in the medical profession, unless the applicant had not revealed it themselves in their application or at their interview. That would be considered as dishonesty.

 

[najaB]

It's not automatic by any means that anything to do with a RoRA conviction revealed on a DBS would result in someone not getting a job in the medical profession, unless the applicant had not revealed it themselves in their application or at their interview. That would be considered as dishonesty.

While not in the medical field, I have experience of just that. I had a guy in one of my training courses a while back - he was exactly the kind of person we want in the business: eager, well-spoken, bright.

First week out of training, the recruitment people asked him to come and speak with them - turned out that a couple of years previously he had broken someone's car windscreen when he was out on the town. Problem was, he didn't declare that he had a conviction so he had to go. The recruitment guys said that had he declared it, there would have been no problem, but because he didn't he had to go since he lied on his application.

 

[Greenback]

That sounds like a couple of instances I know of when I worked in medical recruitment. It was very frustrating when an excellent candidate had not been honest in their application.

I can recall a lot of instances when minor offences were declared and the candidate was appointed.

 

[DaleCooper]

That sounds like a couple of instances I know of when I worked in medical recruitment. It was very frustrating when an excellent candidate had not been honest in their application.

I can recall a lot of instances when minor offences were declared and the candidate was appointed.

Would you want to employ someone who lied on their application?

 

[najaB]

Would you want to employ someone who lied on their application?

Exactly - if they've lied to you before they've even got the job, who knows what they'll do later?

 

[Greenback]

It was frustrating for the recruiting manager that the candidate had not been honest. After all, they had seemed to be the best candidate at interview, and then having to withdraw the job offer because of an undeclared conviction on a DBS result meant that, in some cases at least, the whole recruitment process had to start again from scratch.

Of course, these checks are there to prevent dishonesty. People need to be open and honest about any trouble they may have been caught up in. Lying is pointless, as the truth will emerge one way or another.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

In addition to what has already been said, the OP would most certainly be subject to an Enhanced Disclosure considering he'll be working with vulnerable people. But "if" he is convicted, it will be "spent" after one year (as previously mentioned) and considering it takes about 3- 7 years to get through medical school, this episode would be well behind him by then.

But to the OP - never, ever do this again because should you be unlucky to gain TWO convictions, these are NEVER spent and will always show up on enhanced DBS checks.