Blind man refused travel on sleeper

[yorkie]

See this story

http://www.stv.tv/news/Blind_man_claims_train_ordeal_080417180515


The sleeper is pick up only until Preston, and Edinburgh is not a booked passenger stop, so I wonder if they could have refused him on those grounds or not. It seems they didn't. Dogs are apparently not allowed in the seated sleeper, they have to be in a berth. I do not know what the rules are for disabled passengers exactly, but I guess they need a berth. It is not clear if he was offered a berth or not, or whether they are under any obligation to do so.

It is also unclear how much time he had allowed for his train. If there was a very long queue at the barrier, then I am on his side, as barriers should not be an excuse to make people miss trains. On the other hand, if he arrived with seconds to spare, and someone let him through the barrier promptly, then you could say he didn't allow enough time. As it is, we just don't know.

 

[me123]

The question is; would they allow a "healthy" passenger without a dog to do the same journey?

Anyway, isn't the sleeper "Reservations cumpulsory", or did he make a reservation?

There's a lot of unanswered questions here and, whilst I appreciate that the man has been treated badly by some staff and appears to have been messed about, I don't want to say too much as I don't know the full story.

I've used the barriers at ABD, and they are quite good. there are two "priority" barriers which allow disabled passengers through as they are wider, and for the man travelling with a dog, this would be the ones he would choose. However, at busy times, the staff have used these barriers to alleviate the queues and it is possible that he's been caught up in this.

If that is the case, then FSR should refund the taxi fare and apologise, but I don't really want to say too much in case we're missing some important details.

 

[yorkie]

The question is; would they allow a "healthy" passenger without a dog to do the same journey?

Officially, no. Unofficially I do not know.

Anyway, isn't the sleeper "Reservations cumpulsory", or did he make a reservation?

They just say that to avoid people being stranded. You can't make a reservation to Edinburgh on that train anyway.

There's a lot of unanswered questions here and, whilst I appreciate that the man has been treated badly by some staff and appears to have been messed about, I don't want to say too much as I don't know the full story.

I've used the barriers at ABD, and they are quite good. there are two "priority" barriers which allow disabled passengers through as they are wider, and for the man travelling with a dog, this would be the ones he would choose. However, at busy times, the staff have used these barriers to alleviate the queues and it is possible that he's been caught up in this.

If that is the case, then FSR should refund the taxi fare and apologise, but I don't really want to say too much in case we're missing some important details.

Well, what we really need to know is what time he arrived at the ticket barrier and how quickly he was let through. You're right - without that we can't judge who is right or wrong for causing the problem.

Regardless of the cause, they should not have suggested he was faking his disability, and the behaviour of staff is very bad PR for First - and in their home city too.

 

[Daniel]

My opionin:

He missed the last train of the night. A sleeper is a bit different. AFAIK, reservations are compulsory. You can't just walk up to a sleeper and board, disabled or not. You also cannot alight or board at Edinburgh, whether or not you are disabled. The only reason the train is unlocked at all is to allow Fort William Seated passengers to change carriages IIRC.

So, if he couldn't travel if he wasn't blind, he shouldn't travel if he is - if he could I'd call it discrimination!

EDIT: But I agree with Yorkie, the staff could have handled the situation better, and should not have questioned his disability, (if, indeed, they did).

 

[gingerheid]

While it initially all depends on how long he had to wait at the barrier... wow! Way to then get bad publicity and say some really daft things!

And I'd say he should be more worried about his dog getting fleas from the train than the other way round...

 

[paul1609]

My opionin:

He missed the last train of the night. A sleeper is a bit different. AFAIK, reservations are compulsory. You can't just walk up to a sleeper and board, disabled or not. You also cannot alight or board at Edinburgh, whether or not you are disabled. The only reason the train is unlocked at all is to allow Fort William Seated passengers to change carriages IIRC.

QUOTE]

Not sure about the Aberdeen and Inverness Portions but the Fort William portion is a normal scheduled service from Edinburgh you can join and leave at all stations but reservations are recommended.

 

[djw1981]

Also, given that FSR had caused the delay, the least they could have done was to arrange the taxi from Perth at their expense and to tell the truth - if the reason was that the carriages would not be unlocked at EDB, then say so!

 

[yorkie]

Also, given that FSR had caused the delay, the least they could have done was to arrange the taxi from Perth at their expense and to tell the truth - if the reason was that the carriages would not be unlocked at EDB, then say so!

To clarify,

All sleeper portions are pick up only as far as Preston - except the Fort William train which acts as a day train to Edinburgh. At Edinburgh the doors are unlocked and pax from FTW portion have to walk to ABD portion (and vice versa heading north). The doors are also unlocked at Carlisle (can't remember why).

You can't officially get off or on the Aberdeen or Inverness portions at Edinburgh or Carlisle, however it has been done. If you have a ticket such as an ALR you can certainly do it, otherwise you will need to buy a ticket that is valid beyond the point where you get off, then no-one is going to realise in advance and at the time they are not going to stop you.

 

[djw1981]

I meant that because FSR delayed him at the barrier such that he missed his last train they could have said 'We do not let people off the sleeper at Edinburgh but we can put you on the (Glasgow) train to Perth and then we will arrange a taxi from there to Edinburgh at our expense'. As opposed to the man having to pay for his own taxi from Perth.

 

[Mintona]

Think doors are opened at Carlisle for morning papers if I remember correctly 8)

 

[yorkie]

I meant that because FSR delayed him at the barrier such that he missed his last train they could have said 'We do not let people off the sleeper at Edinburgh but we can put you on the (Glasgow) train to Perth and then we will arrange a taxi from there to Edinburgh at our expense'. As opposed to the man having to pay for his own taxi from Perth.

Maybe. But this could set a precident. We need to know how long he was delayed at the barrier. If it was any less than a minute then I doubt FSR would admit any sort of liability - imagine the claims people could make if they left it a few seconds too late to get the last train home.

 

[me123]

To clarify, BTW, the last train from ABD terminates at Perth to allow an early service to arrive in Aberdeen before 0900. Thus, the man went as far as he could, possibly hoping for a connection by rail or bus to be available. His ticket isn't valid, however, so he would have had to purchase another to do so.

As I said before, there's a lot of unresolved issues here.

 

[djw1981]

Mr McClenaghan, 36, told the News he missed the last regular train at 9.23pm because he had to wait for assistance at the ticket barrier.

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Blind-man-barred-from-train.3991872.jp

So he does it regularly, and if, like most people with disabilities I know, they know they eed assistance, they tend to turn up with plenty of time.

Mind being Aberdeen it does depend when they put the platform on the departure board / announced it. Some of the Aberdeen ones when I have been up there have had less than 2 minutes between announcement and departure. Sp even if you were at the barriers at that time there was no always a member of staff nearby.

 

[me123]

She said this was the only seated carriage on the train, and if someone was allergic or afraid of dogs, they couldn't move to another one.

OK, fair point there, but still:

It is against the Disability Rights Act to refuse a guide dog access to any public place or public transport.

How on earth this could actually be an issue with station staff amazes me. Why no one it seems stood up for the man's rights is downright baffling and the downright incompetence of some of the workers; well, I'd never have guessed it from any ABD based staff!

 

[Daniel]

OK, fair point there, but still:

It is against the Disability Rights Act to refuse a guide dog access to any public place or public transport.

How on earth this could actually be an issue with station staff amazes me. Why no one it seems stood up for the man's rights is downright baffling and the downright incompetence of some of the workers; well, I'd never have guessed it from any ABD based staff!

Fair enough, a guide dog shouldn't be denied access to any public place or public transport, BUT, considering this act is there to impose equallity, should a blind man with a guide dog be allowed on a train when a normal passenger should not have been either? IMO, no.

Something which arised at Tottenham some weeks ago - I agreed that a man in a wheelchar should not have to to give 24hrs notice to travel between Liverpool Street and Tottenham Hale, as they were both staffed stations - as long as he let someone know before he got on etc.
However, it later transpired that the gentleman refused to show staff a ticket, and wanted to board a Stansted Express - pick up only at Tottenham - staff refused to get the ramp out to get him onto that train, but said they would for the train 3 minuites behind - the Cambridge - which would be stopping at Tottenham Hale to both pick up and set down. However, he boarded the StanEx anyway, without the ramp, by pulling himself in the chair up onto the train, (if that makes sense).

 

[RJ]

So, if he couldn't travel if he wasn't blind, he shouldn't travel if he is - if he could I'd call it discrimination!

Have a heart hock:. Haven't you ever been let off for doing something you shouldn't have, and been grateful for it?

 

[Daniel]

Hmm... yeah... I suppose your right...

I suppose, in fairness, they shouldn't have left him stranded, either way - but, my point is, I don't think the rules should be bent regularly, for, say, a disabled passenger, when it wouldn't for someone who isn't disabled?

 

[me123]

Fair enough, a guide dog shouldn't be denied access to any public place or public transport, BUT, considering this act is there to impose equallity, should a blind man with a guide dog be allowed on a train when a normal passenger should not have been either? IMO, no.

I fully agree. He should have been denied travel on the grounds that:

1) He did not appear to have a reservation.
2) He was travelling to EDB, where IIRC passengers cannot board/alight on the Highland Sleeper.

The way the station staff have worded it sounds as if they're denying travel because of the guide dog, and if that was the case it's wrong. The treatment the guy received was downright appauling (assuming, of course, that it did actually happen as he said) but for all we know the person could be lying. We should await FSR's reply I think before we jump to further conclusions.

 

[yorkie]

I agree with Daniel and me123.

It is not right that someone who is blind should expect special treatment and be allowed access to a train that others are not, although in my experience I don't know many disabled people but those I do know do not want special treatment or 'positive' discrimination or whatever it's called.

Did this guy want special treatment? We don't know. Not enough information to go on.

Would FSR allow someone else, who was otherwise stranded, travel on the sleeper to Edinburgh? I would hope so, room permitting. If so, then he has been discriminated against for the reasons he gives and that's wrong. If not, then he is demanding 'positive' discrimination which I don't agree with.

We may never get to the bottom of it because it could be his word against the staff.

Either way, positive discrimination toward the disabled is only likely to rise, as it is clear from the comments and the main body of the story that whatever hassle he had at the barriers (if any), that is not the issue. The issue is that he was not allowed on a train to a destination that it was not advertised to call it. Does that now mean that someone can demand to be allowed on an ECS? Will WSMR have to convey blind people from Marylebone to Banbury? If they don't then they risk a story against them "They forced me to walk to Euston" etc. The fact the train is not advertised to call is now irrelevant, according to the articles and comments. If I was a WMSR guard and a blind person wanted to travel to Banbury would I refuse? No, because I would not want a complaint or story about me in the 'papers.

 

[djw1981]

Either way it is very poor customer service not to arrange a taxi from Perth IF the delay is due to FSR staff delaying him at the barrier.