Off-peak Oyster cap reinstated (kind of...)

[NeilWatson]

Www.london.gov.uk/media/mayor-press...sure-all-part-time-workers-benefit-from-fares

Outer Londoners who pay for their journeys by Oyster pay as you go and contactless cards are to receive some respite from the decision to axe the off-peak daily cap.
The 2015 fares package for Transport for London services included a reduction in the Oyster daily fares cap, a move intended to make travel more affordable for part-time and home workers.

The revenue lost through the reduction is being recouped by abolishing the off-peak fares cap and increasing the costs of paper travelcards.

As a result, some fares have increased by as much as 38%, although TfL claims only 25,000 people a day are paying more and says some would get a better deal by moving to Oyster and contactless payment.

Responding to criticism from all parties on the London Assembly Mayor Boris Johnson agreed to reconsider axing the off-peak cap, although he last week rejected an amendment to his budget which would have reversed the hike.

City Hall has announced that passengers travelling from Zones 4-6 two or more times a week will receive an automatic refund reducing their cap to £8.00 for zones 1-4 and £8.80 for zones 1-5 and 1-6. Monthly refunds will be paid from April and be backdated to include trips made from 2 January.

Mayor Johnson, said: “I’ve delivered on my commitment to address the needs of flexible and part-time workers, with significant fare cuts for hundreds of thousands of hardworking Londoners.

“This reduction was funded through revisions made to the fare package elsewhere and having assessed the full impact of these changes, I have asked Transport for London to make changes to the daily off peak caps which mean that all Londoners benefit. 

“A relatively small group of passengers in outer London who were disproportionally affected will be automatically refunded.

“I believe this decision is in the interests of fairness and one which recognises the need to support all part-time workers, a vital part of our great city’s economy.”

Commenting on the change, Labour’s London Assembly Budget Spokesperson John Biggs AM said: “Whilst Boris Johnson’s u-turn is welcome it shows how, even with this effectively his final Budget, Boris has failed to show he cares about the challenges facing Londoners.

“Instead of putting forward policies to tackle rising fares, rising violent crime and the capital’s housing crisis, we’ve got more of the same with no major new projects or policies. It’s the clearest sign yet that Boris Johnson has effectively checked out of City Hall and is content to leave a legacy of failures for his successor.”

 

[jon0844]

When people are so quick to attack for people making worthy U-turns, it's no wonder that some people would prefer to just press on regardless.

 

[infobleep]

Well Boris Johnson is leaving a legacy of failures. If he didn't do the U turn what would he be leaving? I take it whatever he does it a failure end of. Lol.

 

[Be3G]

outer Londoners are a vital part of the London economy and should not face these increased fares

Mumble grumble zone 2–6 cap mumble grumble

 

[Deerfold]

Mumble grumble zone 2–6 cap mumble grumble

Obviously only outer Londoners who come into inner London.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Seems that a lot of people have done the same as I have and stopped coming into London on public transport; TfL has lost revenue as a result.

This though still doesn't address my biggest gripe, though, the loss of the £6.00 1-6 off-peak paper travelcard with the Network Card at weekends.

And you'll only get the refund if you travel twice a week; now you're being forced to try and second-guess how often you'll be travelling before making a decision on whether to go by train or otherwise.

I'm sticking to my bike and car.

 

[Deerfold]

Seems that a lot of people have done the same as I have and stopped coming into London on public transport; TfL has lost revenue as a result.

Is there any evidence of that? TfL are saying there are record numbers of people using public transport in London.

 

[jon0844]

I can see some people in London having opted to using Boris Bikes, or those further out using a train and switching to bike when arriving at a terminal station, but doubt many are switching to car.

It's obviously up to them but my experience of driving into London was short lived as I was delayed heavily multiple times. I know people say it's better to be stuck in a car, but I am not so sure. On a train, assuming I got a seat, I can sit and be on my phone or read. Not have to sit waiting to crawl a few more metres, and risking being done for using my mobile even if standing still!

 

[lightbulb]

No mention of a corresponding 34% discount on the reduced cap for railcard holders (especially disabled persons railcard), then...
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How will the refund be paid: as a credit to the Oyster card, or to the debit / credit card used to top up the Oyster?

 

[Dent]

This is all massively over-complicated, and seems to be designed to respond to one specific user case while limiting how many users will benefit as far as possible.

Occasional off peak travellers will not benefit.
Shift workers who work Saturday or Sunday but not both and have to travel peak time during the week will not benefit.
Infrequent or one-time visitors to London will not benefit.

 

[simple simon]

Well wow, this is quite something. A half hearted admission that for some people the fares rise was just too much and that some part-timers were losing out instead of benefiting, as per the original plan.

I've tried pinching myself and as it hurt so I cannot be dreaming... erm, could we be in the age of miracles? That this is happening certainly makes me think so!

I wonder whether, when trying to justify this, Boris and TfL are speaking through clenched teeth - as befits people who do not want to be saying what they are saying. Well if they'd acted with greater wisdom and respect for fares payers in the first place then they would not now be having to make such changes.

The way the refund is being administered is novel - in arrears as a refund; has it ever happened before that fares paid varied depending on how many days a person travels during a week? (Not the specific days, but the number of days - cheaper weekend travel is a different issue).

The retrospective refund requires that people always use the same Oyster or contactless card; I suppose that for most people this will not be an issue.

As someone who made a fuss by complaining to the GLA and then did change his travel habits to avoid the £9.20 1-4 cap (sometimes by using a bus to reach my nearest zone 3 station, other times by avoiding zone 1 and making as few as possible £1.50 daily journeys) I am delighted that this small concession has been announced. Now all I need do is ensure that I qualify for the refund by reaching the fares cap at least twice in the same week. The fares are such that this should be very easy if travelling via zone 1!

This is all massively over-complicated, and seems to be designed to respond to one specific user case while limiting how many users will benefit as far as possible.

Occasional off peak travellers will not benefit.
Shift workers who work Saturday or Sunday but not both and have to travel peak time during the week will not benefit.
Infrequent or one-time visitors to London will not benefit.

Dent is right about the way this is designed to benefit as few passengers as possible... I just see it an an absolute miracle that its happening at all!

It is still to be regretted that the fares system is still designed to financially fleece occasional off peak travellers, including many visitors to London. Maybe in the future a way will be found which is more equitable for people who mix just a few weekday and a weekend journeys?

Mumble grumble zone 2–6 cap mumble grumble

Yes, and 2-9. I am with you on this as I often bought them when they were available in paper format. Because travel outside of zone 1 is always cheaper I would advocate fares of £7.50 for 2-6 and £8.00 for 2-9. Whilst still not cheap the savings are tangible, and since outer zone trains are typically less (over)crowded so maybe these fares would encourage more passengers to avoid zone 1. Of course passengers would need reminding to use pink oyster card readers, where available.

I'd also advocate the return of a paper 2-6 and 2-9 tickets...

Simon

 

[MikeWh]

Infrequent or one-time visitors to London will not benefit.

Actually, most visitors benefited from the reduced zone 1-2 cap.

 

[Be3G]

Is there any evidence of that? TfL are saying there are record numbers of people using public transport in London.

No evidence of statistical significance, but me and Shimbleshanks have now both stated in this thread that the price rises have affected our travel habits negatively.

 

[Mojo]

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...johnson-performs-uturn-on-fares-10064625.html

Thousands of commuters are to receive refunds worth hundreds of pounds a year after Boris Johnson staged a U-turn on fare rises.

The Mayor has announced that the off-peak daily cap in outer London will effectively be reinstated for part-time workers. He is now under pressure to “hold his hands up” to his mistake and fully reverse his withdrawal of off-peak caps.

The higher charges kicked in on January 2, after Mr Johnson axed some cut-price rates. Some commuters who benefited from a daily cap of £8.50 off-peak faced a new “all-day” limit of £11.70. For zones 1-5 the cap went up to £10.90, and between zones 1-4 it rose to £9.20 a day.

But Transport for London will now provide automatic refunds to those who incur a higher fare than the old off-peak daily cap twice or more in a week in zones 4 to 6. The new off-peak daily caps will be £8 for zones 1-4, and £8.80 for zones 1-5 and 1-6. Refunds will be backdated to January and start in April, and then be paid monthly.

Off-peak is defined as travelling outside the hours of 6.30am-9.30am and 4pm-7pm. The Mayor said: “I’ve de-livered on my commitment to address the needs of flexible and part-time workers, with significant fare cuts. I have asked TfL to make changes to the daily off-peak caps which mean all Londoners can benefit.”

But critics accused him of only staging a partial U-turn, as 10,000 commuters who use the transport network only once a week will still pay more.

Liberal Democrat Assembly member Caroline Pidgeon said: “While it’s welcome he has now sought to lessen the impact on part-time workers, it’s time the Mayor held his hands up and fully reversed his withdrawal of off-peak caps.”

At the time of the initial fares shake-up, TfL had admitted there were “winners and losers”. The new all-day cap for zones 1-3 was lower than the withdrawn off-peak cap.

So basically it sounds like if you get capped twice or more in one week then you will get a rebate every month.

The article mentions an evening peak, which previously never existed for the off-peak caps. Unfortunately you can't really rely on journalists getting the facts right, so it's not clear whether you also can't travel in the evening peak, or whether the article is wrong.

 

[simple simon]

Actually, most visitors benefited from the reduced zone 1-2 cap.

That is so unfair!

----------------------------

Mojo, re: your London Evening Standard article and the evening peak fares issue... whoa... thats new.

One hand giveth, another claws (snatches) back.

I wonder what happens if one reaches the cap during the day but then also travels in the PM peak period. Will they still benefit from the refund?

Simon

Simon

 

[Mojo]

Mojo, re: your London Evening Standard article and the evening peak fares issue... whoa... thats new.

One hand giveth, another claws (snatches) back.

I wonder what happens if one reaches the cap during the day but then also travels in the PM peak period. Will they still benefit from the refund?

I would hope, and assume, that the journo has failed to appreciate that there is a difference between the time the Off-peak single journey fares apply and the difference between the time the former Off-peak daily cap applied.

I also wonder what will happen to Railcard holders and whether they will also benefit from the rebate.

 

[Tetchytyke]

When people are so quick to attack for people making worthy U-turns

A worthy U-turn?

Please remind me which constituency Boris Johnson is standing as an MP candidate in, and also remind me in which zone you'll find that constituency.

It's a great soundbite a couple of months before an election, but doesn't do anything to reverse the damage he did by withdrawing off-peak caps.

 

[Panda]

This is hardly a u-turn!! How long are they going to refund customers before they quietly stop doing that. This is just a way to please the crowds until people forget about it. They don't ever have to remind people of this again in a fares change, which they would have had to do if this was a real u-turn.

 

[MikeWh]

This is hardly a u-turn!! How long are they going to refund customers before they quietly stop doing that. This is just a way to please the crowds until people forget about it. They don't ever have to remind people of this again in a fares change, which they would have had to do if this was a real u-turn.

Well the kind of people this is targetted at will get a refund every month, so if they quietly stopped doing it there would surely be complaints. Wouldn't take much to be top story on BBC London News or front of the Evening Standard.

 

[themeone]

In a few weeks I'll be commuting twice a week from zone 5 to zone 1 in peak hour. Does this mean that, after refund, I'll be capped at £8.80 per day - I could potentially use a combination of tram, national rail and bus each way.
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I re-read the release and see it's off-peak only!

 

[simple simon]

A worthy U-turn?

Please remind me which constituency Boris Johnson is standing as an MP candidate in, and also remind me in which zone you'll find that constituency.

It's a great soundbite a couple of months before an election, but doesn't do anything to reverse the damage he did by withdrawing off-peak caps.

I agree with your comment about not doing anything to reverse the damage... but re: the constituency, now that Westminster (Sir Malcom Rifkind) is free so maybe BoJo will swap from the "probably safe seat" of Uxbridge to the "guaranteed safe seat" of Westminster?

Then he wont need worry about the outer London oiks (like me living in Z4)

Simon