Metrolink Appeal Rejected Despite Proving Had Ticket (& Receipt)

[JamesWill]

Hi,

First post here - I would really appreciate some advice with this.

I was issued a 'standard fare charge' last week as I had left my weekly season ticket at home. The person issuing the ticket told me if I could prove I had a valid ticket the appeal would be accepted no problem. That night I sent an email with a photo of the ticket and receipt and a short explanation of what had happened.

I have just received a letter in reply to that appeal stating my appeal has been rejected. All that was said was: 'we have reviewed the reasons why you were unable to produce a valid ticket/pass and based on the information you have provided, I can find no reason to reconsider our employee's decision to charge you with the standard fare charge'

Obviously I am absolutely furious, but I do understand they are probably still within their rights as I was not able to produce a valid ticket at the time.

Could anyone please advise on what to try next? Or should I just bite the bullet and pay the fine?

Any help would be much appreciated!

 

[najaB]

Obviously I am absolutely furious, but I do understand they are probably still within their rights as I was not able to produce a valid ticket at the time.

Could anyone please advise on what to try next? Or should I just bite the bullet and pay the fine?

Yes, they are within their rights as most ticketing offences are what are known as 'strict liability' - you are in breach of the rules by just not being able to show the ticket at the time.

I don't know the details of how Metrolink do things, but my guess is that it's best to pay the standard fare and then speak with their customer services department afterwards to let them know how disappointed you are about the way the situation has been handled.

 

[timbo58]

IME normally the first (and only) time you leave a season ticket at home the TOC will issue a goodwill refund for the full fare charged.
They won't do it thereafter however.

That might have been just my TOC at that time however, but I did understand it to be standard practice.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Metrolink aren't a TOC, however, and are very strict on ticketing - for instance there isn't the "passed an opportunity to pay" thing, it's absolute - if all ticket machines at a stop are broken you have to call customer services and get a reference number, you can't just travel and say the ticket machine was broken.

From Metrolink's site:

What do I do if I experience a problem in purchasing a ticket?​
Please call Metrolink Customer Services on 0161 205 2000, or press the call button on the platform for assistance. Tickets can be purchased from any ticket machine from any platform to any destination. Do not board the tram without a valid ticket.

Seems quite clear.

Neil

 

[185143]

Metrolink aren't a TOC, however, and are very strict on ticketing - for instance there isn't the "passed an opportunity to pay" thing, it's absolute - if all ticket machines at a stop are broken you have to call customer services and get a reference number, you can't just travel and say the ticket machine was broken.

From Metrolink's site:

What do I do if I experience a problem in purchasing a ticket?​
Please call Metrolink Customer Services on 0161 205 2000, or press the call button on the platform for assistance. Tickets can be purchased from any ticket machine from any platform to any destination. Do not board the tram without a valid ticket.

Seems quite clear.

Neil

I had to call customer services when there was a power cut at St. Peter's Square last Friday. As they were obviously aware of the problem, they took my details (Name and postcode) and said that if stopped by revenue protection, that it would be on the system that I hadn't had an opportunity to pay so there would be no issues.

I didn't meet revenue staff so there weren't.

 

[185]

Hi,

First post here - I would really appreciate some advice with this.

I was issued a 'standard fare charge' last week as I had left my weekly season ticket at home. The person issuing the ticket told me if I could prove I had a valid ticket the appeal would be accepted no problem. That night I sent an email with a photo of the ticket and receipt and a short explanation of what had happened.

I have just received a letter in reply to that appeal stating my appeal has been rejected. All that was said was: 'we have reviewed the reasons why you were unable to produce a valid ticket/pass and based on the information you have provided, I can find no reason to reconsider our employee's decision to charge you with the standard fare charge'

Obviously I am absolutely furious, but I do understand they are probably still within their rights as I was not able to produce a valid ticket at the time.

Could anyone please advise on what to try next? Or should I just bite the bullet and pay the fine?

Any help would be much appreciated!

Two points-

Generally staff will advise that this is someone else's decision and only perhaps one in five appeals are successful. Where staff suggest to send in a ticket, this is to support an appeal, but never with a guarantee of success.

Specifically for weekly tickets, unlike railway season tickets, weekly tickets have a dispensation where since 2012 they no longer require a photocard. On the upside, they are easier to buy. On the downside, unlike Monthly and longer tickets, there is nothing to indicate a persons identity with the ticket, so (well, theoretically) someone else could have been using it.

Unlike the railway, ticketless travel and fare evasion is generally dealt with by way of a simple £50 fare. I'd treat it as a lesson learnt - probably worth paying it whilst it's still at that amount, as it rises after 14 days plus the appeal time period.

 

[222007]

I have had a passenger with exactly this situation within the last few weeks i normally take the details and issue a zero fare ticket for there journey. Lucky this was a passenger who always uses the same train and has a weekly. I will always say to passengers in this situation to await the letter from the company and then send a copy of there ticket. At that point i say it should be accepted however thats the decision of the company.

 

[Chew Chew]

I have had a passenger with exactly this situation within the last few weeks i normally take the details and issue a zero fare ticket for there journey. Lucky this was a passenger who always uses the same train and has a weekly. I will always say to passengers in this situation to await the letter from the company and then send a copy of there ticket. At that point i say it should be accepted however thats the decision of the company.

Surely if you are to say anything on the matter it should be that it "may be accepted" and not that it "should be accepted". Use of should, even with your attempt of a disclaimer at the end gives the impression that the customer has a high probability of a penalty being rescinded.

 

[PermitToTravel]

The latter wording helps with conflict avoidance

 

[GadgetMan]

It doesn't always have to be up to the company to decide on further action. On rare occasions when I had sympathy & (semi)believed the passenger I would take their details and ask them to send in a copy of missing railcard/season ticket/missing advance ticket left at home etc. The passenger was then advised that if they sent in the item as agreed no further action would be taken, however if they failed then the legal team would be in touch.

My report would then include details of the conversation/agreement guaranteeing no further action as I have then given permission to the passenger to travel on invalid/no ticket subject to them complying to the above.

Edited to add, this was for a TOC. I have no idea how metrolink operate.

 

[arabianights]

The latter wording helps with conflict avoidance

To me this suggests that TOC is handling things wrongly. It should never be intentionally putting staff in a position where its advice is to lie.

 

[najaB]

To me this suggests that TOC is handling things wrongly. It should never be intentionally putting staff in a position where its advice is to lie.

Depending on the TOC, it may not be a lie. Some have a policy of giving one "free-pass" to season ticket holders who forget their ticket.

 

[JamesWill]

Hi All,

Just wanted to say thanks very much for all the replies you've been a great help!

I followed some advice and sent an email to Metrolink customer service, made some calls and sent another email to the RAPTUK or whatever they're called who handles the fines. I'm not sure what worked but a few days later I received another letter saying they have reassessed my situation and decided to waive the fine on this occasion.

If anyone else finds themself in the same situation my advice would be to be very persistent and very polite! Worked for me