New fourth platform at Manchester Airport station.

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The station was closed for the three-week period in order that all necessary work required could be effected. The station is now open, but yesterday the new fourth platform was barricaded and workmen could be seen at the far end of the platform.

Does anyone know what works are still being carried out and when rail services will be using the new platform?

 

[driver9000]

I was told platform 4 isn't needed until the May timetable change. I'm not sure what work is left to do but there was there was some grinding going on the other day.

 

[snowball]

There is already a thread for this - it's here.

Some pictures were posted today by Freel07 on page 343 of the Manchester Airport thread on Skyscrapercity, here.

The track and signalling alterations appear to be completed. The OHLE for platform 4 is in place but is still earthed at the moment. Platform 4 seems to be still in need of some equipment such as lighting and passenger information screens.

Open Train Times shows services through to December but does not appear to show any use of platform 4. I imagine the schedules may well be amended to bring it into use from May.

 

[The Planner]

It is May, it is the only way the ATW trains can get in.

 

[snowball]

It is May, it is the only way the ATW trains can get in.

Sorry, I'm not well up on service patterns. Are there new ATW services to/from the airport from May? Are they currently shown on OTT's forward timetables as using other platforms?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Most (all?) of the hourly Manchester Piccadilly-North Wales services are due to be sent through to Airport from May. Currently there are some that do this but only at the extremes of the day.

 

[snowball]

OTT seems to show such trains not running to the airport even after May. I'd been naively assuming that if it showed services after May, it would be showing the post-May timetable.

 

[richardio123]

Ah the timetable change is on the 16th May and released timetables are only available 12 weeks in advance which as of today is only up to the 14th of May

 

[Viscount702]

OTT seems to show such trains not running to the airport even after May. I'd been naively assuming that if it showed services after May, it would be showing the post-May timetable.

It is showing the North Wales service from the May timetable change but at present it seems to show only the departures and not the arrivals. Still amendments to be made by the sound of it.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

How do matters now stand with regard to the fourth platform remaining works?

 

[Joseph_Locke]

How do matters now stand with regard to the fourth platform remaining works?

Just post-blockade site tidying and snagging this weekend, just add trains?

 

[berneyarms]

Well it seems that ATW will not be adding extra services in May to Manchester Airport, so what use the extra platform will be is not clear.

 

[The Planner]

That's interesting, sounds like TPE may have got their way.

 

[snowball]

That's interesting, sounds like TPE may have got their way.

Are they opposed to Welsh services?

 

[Class 170101]

That's interesting, sounds like TPE may have got their way.

Their way on what? I see Platform 4 has no trains in it at Manchester Airport from May.

 

[northwichcat]

In December 2014 Network Rail’s Customer Relationship Executive for Arriva Trains Wales took our aspiration to
a meeting of Network Rail’s Sale of Access Rights Panel. Following verbal feedback, we then submitted further
performance data which the panel members considered. The panel was unable to support the application
because of concerns about:
 Performance between Manchester Piccadilly and Slade Lane Jn. Network Rail LNW Route believes that
performance between these locations is particularly sensitive and that an extension of Arriva Trains
Wales’ services would likely affect train performance in the area and also likely further afield. It cited
TransPennine Express’ ‘fifth path’, an additional hourly service between Leeds and Manchester, that has
had a severe impact on the operator’s PPM with knock-on effects to other lines and operators. It points
out that, with a number of services already running to the Airport, the introduction of additional services
will result in tighter headways and a reduction in turnaround times for existing services. It cited the
Blackpool North to Manchester Airport service which would have 8 minutes’ turnaround time compared to
the current 14 minutes.
 The industry’s reputation if services are withdrawn when the rights expire. LNW Route states that there
is broad agreement with DfT over the outputs of the work at Manchester Airport (specifically the new 4th
platform) in relation to the wider Northern Hub programme, which would enable a new service to run to
the Airport from the Calder Valley route via the new Ordsall Chord. LNW Route considers that Arriva
Trains Wales’ requested rights would have to be removed at that point and so the service extensions
would be withdrawn, creating a reputational risk to Network Rail and the wider rail industry in the area.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...2a - closes 13 march 2015/atw 65th form p.pdf

 

[thenorthern]

Hopefully the new platform will ease the amount of trains stopping one in front of the other which most of the time is ok but with delays it can be a nuisance.

A relative of mine designed the original station and all the extensions and I think he said it was all designed a while ago they just didn't have the funding to build it.

 

[Camden]

Instead of obsessing about direct trains to Manchester Airport from Yorkshire, Wales, Scotland (Timbuktoo, Flinders Street, The Moon...) it would surely be a much better proposition all round to run more frequent trains through Manchester city centre and out the other side, which people can use to connect with frequent local trains from Manchester city centre to the airport.

I'm sure it may make sense to terminate some trains there, but it's like it has become an obsession with some even lobbying to sacrifice connections to real places in favour of it. Heathrow doesn't have city centre grade arrivals, why does Manchester Airport merit them? Trains are terminating un-necessarily at a station where few passengers are being off-loaded/loaded, where the passengers could just as easily make a change in the city centre to complete their journey, and meanwhile service frequencies across the network are being affected.

 

[The Planner]

Their way on what? I see Platform 4 has no trains in it at Manchester Airport from May.

JCollins has pretty much quoted the answer. TPE were not very happy about it and disputed the paths from what I hear.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...2a - closes 13 march 2015/atw 65th form p.pdf

So Bradford trumps Chester and North Wales.

 

[The Planner]

No, it is as the quote says. Once the chord had opened the predicament of telling ATW to do one after a couple of years isnt in the best interests of the industry. The platform wasnt for that use regardless of the interim benefit.

 

[PrinceBishop]

Instead of obsessing about direct trains to Manchester Airport from Yorkshire, Wales, Scotland (Timbuktoo, Flinders Street, The Moon...) it would surely be a much better proposition all round to run more frequent trains through Manchester city centre and out the other side

That's what they do when they go to the airport isn't it? Go through the city centre. Where else should they go? They can't send everything up towards Stockport.

Heathrow doesn't have city centre grade arrivals, why does Manchester Airport merit them?

Heathrow's rail connections, or lack of them, are irrelevant to Manchester Airport's. I'm sure Heathrow could support many more rail services from many other locations if it was easily able to.

 

[Class 170101]

So Bradford trumps Chester and North Wales.

Afraid I agree with the sentiments expressed. If this is meant to be a competitive railway then ATW should have rights to go to Manchester Airport.

I cannot see how Ordsall Chord can make the problem worse as ATW would presumably still run to Manchester Picadilly and terminate so will still be using the track section between Ordsall Chord and Manchester Piccadilly even if Calder Valley was more important.

Never mind the fact that ATW occupy Manchester Piccadilly platforms for longer before leaving for (Mayfield?) Sidings kicking people off the train. That must be a perfiormance risk in itself.

 

[The Planner]

Afraid I agree with the sentiments expressed. If this is meant to be a competitive railway then ATW should have rights to go to Manchester Airport.

So what do you do when the chord opens, TPE or whoever starts running the Calder Valley services and can't get into the Airport as ATW are there? Apart from the fact that DfT would start asking questions as the benefits of the Hub aren't being realised and not getting the return on the investment.

 

[Taunton]

Are the extensions everyone wants to do really just an ORCATS raid on Airport to Manchester revenue, but of course not stated as such.

 

[pne]

That's what they do when they go to the airport isn't it? Go through the city centre. Where else should they go? They can't send everything up towards Stockport.

Right, they shouldn't terminate at Stockport - they could reverse there and provide a regular service through Reddish South and Denton

 

[The Planner]

Are the extensions everyone wants to do really just an ORCATS raid on Airport to Manchester revenue, but of course not stated as such.

Calder Valley aren't, they are an output of the hub.

 

[edwin_m]

Are the extensions everyone wants to do really just an ORCATS raid on Airport to Manchester revenue, but of course not stated as such.

I don't think so. By being one of ten (or whatever) trains per hour to the airport ATW will only pick up 10% of the revenue of Manchester-Airport journeys because people travelling to/from other places served by direct trains will overwhelmingly stay on those direct trains and ORCATS will allocated the revenue accordingly. Consensus on this forum is that trains are not exactly overcrowded between Piccadilly and the Airport.

I think it is a genuine attempt by ATW to grow the market, as the North Wales coast has good road links to Manchester Airport and relatively poor rail links. Even though the change at Piccadilly is relatively easy (often same platform) airport passengers prefer to avoid changing trains with luggage or the risk of missing connections. As the existing layover at Piccadilly is long enough for the train to get to the airport and back, ATW can run this at very little extra cost (probably an extra crew as they can't now take a break during the layover) and it may even pay for itself.

 

[northwichcat]

Afraid I agree with the sentiments expressed. If this is meant to be a competitive railway then ATW should have rights to go to Manchester Airport.

Question is why didn't ATW want to run to the Airport in the early 2000s when there was 1 less hourly service on the Airport to Piccadilly line?

Are they in fact doing like TPE did with Liverpool South Parkway, where TPE said the Liverpool Airport market wasn't big enough to warrant a stop there, then following the Airport's expansion they realised there was a market?

 

[Viscount702]

I think there is a strong possibility that the ATW service will end up in Victoria come December 2017. It depends on what TPE and Northern want to do but the original proposals under the Hub put it back to Victoria and I think that is where Dft want it to go.