41001

[alexl92]

Apparently the group who own 41001 have acquired 3 BR MK3 coaches, which RI stated were 'hauled stock so can work with 41001 and any other air braked loco'.

This implies that the 41 uses the electrical systems installed on loco-hauled stock, yet it worked with an East Midlands HST recently.

Can anyone clear this up for me?

Cheers!

 

[cjmillsnun]

It's a bit of a hybrid.

The control systems are HST, hence it can work in multiple with class 43s.

However... There are some class 57 bits there.

http://www.projectmiller.org.uk/?p=820

By the way 41001 is still owned by the NRM.

 

[Peter Sarf]

In case its not clear. I assume the normal power car at the other end of the HST can supply the Hotel Power (ETH). So 41001 only needs to be able to "talk" to the other power car for the purposes of driving.

 

[cjmillsnun]

In case its not clear. I assume the normal power car at the other end of the HST can supply the Hotel Power (ETH). So 41001 only needs to be able to "talk" to the other power car for the purposes of driving.

It can provide hotel power to LHCS, or yes the standard 43 will power to standard HST coaches.

 

[Juniper Driver]

In case its not clear. I assume the normal power car at the other end of the HST can supply the Hotel Power (ETH). So 41001 only needs to be able to "talk" to the other power car for the purposes of driving.

Doesn't need to talk,just the wiring.

Obviously the power car I saw at Derby all those years ago was 41000? Condemned.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Doesn't need to talk,just the wiring.

Obviously the power car I saw at Derby all those years ago was 41000? Condemned.

I realise we should be thankful that we still have 41001(and especially to the team that is doing such a superb job on her) but such a shame that 41000 didn't survive. Would it be feasible to cosmetically alter a production series PC when it's service days are over, also did 41000s cab survive after scrapping or does a spare exist?

 

[Juniper Driver]

I realise we should be thankful that we still have 41001(and especially to the team that is doing such a superb job on her) but such a shame that 41000 didn't survive. Would it be feasible to cosmetically alter a production series PC when it's service days are over, also did 41000s cab survive after scrapping or does a spare exist?

http://www.theghoststationhunters.com/80s-depots-/Derby-Doncaster-works-visit/i-djTczWR/A

Don't know if I am allowed to post this link but it must have been there five years after I first saw it.Actually it was 41002 that was cut up.

 

[sprinterguy]

http://www.theghoststationhunters.com/80s-depots-/Derby-Doncaster-works-visit/i-djTczWR/A

Don't know if I am allowed to post this link but it must have been there five years after I first saw it.Actually it was 41002 that was cut up.

Yes, the power cars were originally numbered 41001/002, but were subsequently renumbered as 43000/43001 in October 1974 to bring them in line with the production power cars. They lost these numbers when taken into departmental stock at the end of the 1979. 41002 was cut up at Booths, Rotherham in November/December 1990, having last been used being propelled into various obstructions on the line at Old Dalby to test a new design of obstacle deflector - A rather ignominious fate for such a historically significant prototype!

As far as I am aware, no part of the scrapped prototype power car was retained.

 

[Ash Bridge]

http://www.theghoststationhunters.com/80s-depots-/Derby-Doncaster-works-visit/i-djTczWR/A

Don't know if I am allowed to post this link but it must have been there five years after I first saw it.Actually it was 41002 that was cut up.

Yes, when I was typing 41000 I thought was it that or 002? Iam sure I saw a picture somewhere of a removed prototype cab, no doubt during the scrapping process, and wondered if it may have been retained and stored somewhere, probably hoping in vain though

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I have a dim recollection of seeing a prototype HST cab on its own in the NRM about 10 - 15 years ago?

 

[Juniper Driver]

Yes, the power cars were originally numbered 41001/002, but were subsequently renumbered as 43000/43001 in October 1974 to bring them in line with the production power cars. They lost these numbers when taken into departmental stock at the end of the 1979. 41002 was cut up at Booths, Rotherham in November/December 1990, having last been used being propelled into various obstructions on the line at Old Dalby to test a new design of obstacle deflector - A rather ignominious fate for such a historically significant prototype!

As far as I am aware, no part of the scrapped prototype power car was retained.

No wonder I was so bloody confused. Yes was a shame how it ended for a unique looking prototype train.

 

[Ash Bridge]

I have a dim recollection of seeing a prototype HST cab on its own in the NRM about 10 - 15 years ago?

Me too! Although It was in a photo somewhere? I think going back to the mid 80s the NRM had a cab on display, but IIRC that was a production series, also not sure if it wasn't just a mockup version either, in any case 41002 was still extant at that time anyway, unless a spare prototype cab did exist?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Actually it occurs to me that an entire HST is quite a tall order for a preservation society. Perhaps it would be better to have a hybrid train. I mean one end has a prototype power car and the other end has a newer power car when these become available. The coaches could be LHCS MK3s next to 41001 and HST MK3s next to 43nnn. The coaches look the same as far as I know - apart from the livery ?.

BTW what happened to the coaches out of the prototype HST ?. I doubt if they are to be found in a normal HST as I assume they are wired like LHCS MK3s.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Actually it occurs to me that an entire HST is quite a tall order for a preservation society. Perhaps it would be better to have a hybrid train. I mean one end has a prototype power car and the other end has a newer power car when these become available. The coaches could be LHCS MK3s next to 41001 and HST MK3s next to 43nnn. The coaches look the same as far as I know - apart from the livery ?.

BTW what happened to the coaches out of the prototype HST ?. I doubt if they are to be found in a normal HST as I assume they are wired like LHCS MK3s.

I believe they were modified to operate in the production series trains, some also were used in the Royal Train and RTC use, the other difference with the prototype trailers when first introduced was that they were fitted with buffers, unlike the production versions.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Most of them still exist and yes including in normal service.

So you could in fact almost completely recreate the protoype set and it would be realist to have a stabdard class 43 on one end with the surviving prototype power car on the other end if the electricals could be worked out because, obviously, the trailers have worked with both.

You could have the prototype livery on one side and use the other side and production power car, in turn, for the various in-service liveries. One caveat - as has been pointed out above, it would be a very long train to have to keep somewhere and would have high maintenance bills to match!

The only way this could possibly be viable is if it was kept in main line condition on a partnership basis and used on regular charter trains - not necessarily enthusiast bashes but all types of charter.

41170 is ex-41001 ( not the power car! ) with East Coast.
42353 is ex-42001 with Great Western.
42355 is ex-42000 with East Coast.
42356 is ex-42002 with Great Western.
42357 is ex-41002 with East Coast.

975814 is ex-41000 ( later 11000 ) in the NMT.
975984 is ex-40000 ( later 10000 ) in the NMT.

None in the Royal Train; that uses the former 11001 and 12001, three purpose built vehicles and four converted 405xx series TRUKs.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Thanks for providing that information Peter the only time I knowingly travelled in a prototype HST trailer car was between Sheffield and Derby sometime during 1998 on a XC service, IIRC they were still distinguishable internally by the original solid partitions (as opposed to glass in production versions) in the centre of the saloon, I would imagine after refurbishment during the intervening years this telltale feature has now been altered or removed? Are there any other distinguishing features remaining I wonder?