Hi, I'm new to this forum and I have a question about something that I saw earlier today. If someone did not have a valid ticket/oyster for a journey on, for example, the London Underground then if they are stopped by an inspector inside the gates at a station then of course that person can be referred for prosecution. However, when I was walking out of Plaistow station today, I saw a few inspectors that were outside of the gates, inspecting peoples tickets as they went by. My question is, does a TOC have any legal ground to prosecute somebody who is 'caught' outside the gates at a train station? Surely, if someone was stopped, what obligation do I have to produce my ticket when surely I have the right to simply walk away?
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Question about being inspected outside of ticket gates
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Yes, if they have made a journey and were seen passing through the gates.
They are probably looking for people using things like Freedom Passes, discounts etc.
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
Yes.
If an offence has been committed then it can be prosecuted. It is immaterial where any interview or other questionning takes place.
I agree that it would be unwise for any Investigator to make any assumptions which supposed that a ticket held during travel would necessarily still be held after leaving a station, but many irregularities could still be identified.
Do you mean "someone" or "I" ?
If "someone" was stopped after having left station property, then they are not obliged to present a ticket, but it would be highly suspicious if they refused (rather than were unable to) and might lead to further questionning. If "someone" or "you" simply walked away, then nothing could be done about at the time (unless one of the more serious offences had been detected which permit an arrest), but the passenger may be identified as a suspect during a future journey, and may not have such ready means of escape.
I can assure you that several ticket frauds have been succesfully investigated off railway property.
Most recent previous discussion / argument on this subject : Power of detention outside of railway property
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Be careful when assuming where 'station limits' are also.
Having stopped persons who have avoided showing tickets at a manned ticket barrier on the pavement outside of quite a few stations I can assure you that many stations (such as those) have station limits that can reach all the way to the road, including pavements, car parks etc.
Having stopped persons who have avoided showing tickets at a manned ticket barrier on the pavement outside of quite a few stations I can assure you that many stations (such as those) have station limits that can reach all the way to the road, including pavements, car parks etc.
222007
Member
In short i am within my rights to ask for you ticket to be presented at ANY point whilst on Railway property but also as other members have stated it would be silly to assume just because you have passed through barriers that you cant then be asked again. People can and do 'bump' through barriers behind fare paying passengers
As a pax, can I just say that this is the most annoying thing about going through the barriers at stations!
matt_world2004
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I don't know the layout of plaistow but what if someone went into the station to top up their oyster, use the toilet or pick up a tube map.They may not nessescarily have a ticket but they may not nessescarily be using the station for train travel either. When travelling from Hayes and harlington.I have often walked along the platform to the ticket machines downstairs.when the ones upstairs are either busy or broken without a ticket.no intention to travel until I have touched in.its not a compulsory ticket area so didn't think I was doing any harm.
Trog
Established Member
At my local station you have to walk about 200 yards down the road before you are off railway property, by which time due to other buildings and a bend you can hardly even see the station.
cjmillsnun
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As a pax, can I just say that this is the most annoying thing about going through the barriers at stations!
I think all passengers who have experienced someone bumping through behind them would agree with that.
causton
Established Member
On the DLR at Stratford International I got checked outside the station just past the Oyster readers, after I touched out... presumably as there is not room the 'paid' side of the readers!
Hyphen
Member
I get that you have the powers to do this, but I can't help but think any block performed in this manner would put a number of legitimate travellers at a serious disadvantage to show a valid ticket...
At most of the stations I use regularly, the barriers retain tickets on exiting (assuming you're at the destination on your ticket). If they did this, and I was stopped by an RPI asking me to provide a valid ticket for my journey, I would be unable to - short of having made a request to keep my ticket for delay repay purposes.
95% of the tickets I buy for personal travel are through ToD anyway, so will have my surname on. I suppose I could reasonably request the RPI empty the hoppers to prove it retained my ticket? But what about the 5% of tickets I buy at the ticket office?
Tickets I buy on TheSheepLine for travel on behalf of my organisation (business account arrangement) come with the surname of the MD on them, which is very different from my own. How on earth do I prove which ticket I travelled on then?
You don't have to prove anything, it is they who have to prove you didn't have a valid ticket
As I see it, they would have to show that you got past the barrier without putting your ticket in.
If RPIs are performing an operation on the unpaid side of the gateline then they would normally be observing the gateline and only stopping people they have good reason to stop, so people they witness tailgating for example. If the barrier has taken your ticket and opened they're unlikely to have much interest in you.
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