General Election 2015 - Thoughts/Predictions/Results

[Tetchytyke]

He is not a "Labour MP", she is not a "Green MP" - they are both the representatives of their constituencies, and should be free to "rebel" against their party line whenever their constituency requires it.

This is how the law sets out MPs responsibilities, but people vote on party political lines, not on individual lines (with a few exceptions, such as Martin Bell). People vote for Mr X because he aligns with the Conservatives, people vote for Mrs Y because she aligns with Labour.

Shaun Woodward did nothing wrong when he switched sides from Conservative to Labour in 1999 without resigning his seat, but the people of Witney were not voting for him they were voting for his rosette. They were cheated.

The problem with FPTP, though, is that minorities in a constituency do not get a chance to influence national politics. If most people are left-leaning in an area, and the vote is a simple local majority, then the right-leaning person doesn't have a voice.

I would agree that the whipping system needs to be reformed, allowing MPs to vote on conscience more, but in reality I don't think much would change. Even without an official whipping system you'd have the same issues you do now- ambitious MPs won't vote against their leader because it will harm their career. If we can stop politics being a career we might have a chance, but really it has always been one.

 

[DownSouth]

The only fair system is equal devolution.
This is done in Germany, USA and most countries with high level devolution have the whole nation covered (sometimes except the capital) England is run in an umfair way compared.

But it's not 'devolution' when those countries are constituted with their states/provinces/Länder having those powers from the start. The UK form of 'devolution' is all about piecemeal tinkering when the real solution would be to proclaim a Constitution (the UK does not have one) that establishes the UK as a Federation and enumerates the division of powers.

In the case of the USA and Australia, the District of Columbia and Australian Capital Territory do have democratically elected district/territory governments but with reduced powers compared to states in order to prevent the inherent corruption which results when the political and economic capital cities are co-located. Those protections can be enacted from the start to prevent it ever happening (as was done with Washington and Canberra) but they could also be added later on to prevent it getting worse. The way to do it in the UK would be the South African solution - one capital city as the functional seat of government (somewhere with little financial clout and no closer to London than 150km) and one for ceremonial purposes (London) such as locating embassies, the seat of the Royal Household etc.

 

[St Rollox]

Fair enough having a new capital for England but i would think the idea of new capital for the UK would finish off the UK as a unitary state.

 

[Magicake]

I would have thought embassies would always be sited with the government for diplomatic reasons

 

[Tony2215]

I am not voting. I am staying out of it this year as I want nothing to do with any further destruction and corruption that gets vented out of Westminster. All leaders are nothing but jumped up little schoolboys, liars, hypocrites and murderers that abide to just one policy - wrapping lies up with even more lies.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

I am not voting. I am staying out of it this year as I want nothing to do with any further destruction and corruption that gets vented out of Westminster. All leaders are nothing but jumped up little schoolboys, liars, hypocrites and murderers that abide to just one policy - wrapping lies up with even more lies.

I'm sure everyone hates politicians for being like that.
But despite them all being selfish idiots...
The effect on the country does vary hugely between political parties.
I will vote at the next election (if I'm still on the electoral roll) against the fascist's party as they will ruin everything.
I support the Greens on policy but can't vote for them without wasting my vote.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I am not voting. I am staying out of it this year as I want nothing to do with any further destruction and corruption that gets vented out of Westminster. All leaders are nothing but jumped up little schoolboys, liars, hypocrites and murderers that abide to just one policy - wrapping lies up with even more lies.

Agreed 100%, I am doing similar.

 

[Nursey1]

I would love to see a better choice between the two main parties. They need to be honest about what they really stand for. The Tories are more UKIP than they currently admit and labour needs to go back to its root and move further to the left.
All we get is what they think we want to hear in order to elect them. What a mess!
As for predictions - another cobbled together disaster I suppose

 

[Aldaniti]

Agreed 100%, I am doing similar.

I'm another who feels the same way. But I will vote. I will draw a box, write Non of the Above against it, and tick it. If enough people did that, the establishment would panic and it might just lead to us on the way to getting the political leaders this country so desperately needs.

 

[Nursey1]

How about we elect MPs who simply vote the way their constituents tell them (via phone app for example). It would stop the lobbying, spin and focus groups immediately and would surely be a better more truly democratic System

 

[jon0844]

I've worked on counts. Your vote will get cast aside and ignored.

In extreme cases, people might argue that you actually voted for them if the X was slightly outside a box and near another, but common sense usually applied. Rude messages, racist comments etc all get ignored the same way.

Far better to vote for someone, even a minority party/person you have some support for. They will be counted.

 

[Johnuk123]

I would love to see a better choice between the two main parties. They need to be honest about what they really stand for. The Tories are more UKIP than they currently admit and labour needs to go back to its root and move further to the left.
All we get is what they think we want to hear in order to elect them. What a mess!
As for predictions - another cobbled together disaster I suppose

This country will never vote into Government a hard left party, never has and never will.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

How about we elect MPs who simply vote the way their constituents tell them (via phone app for example). It would stop the lobbying, spin and focus groups immediately and would surely be a better more truly democratic System

People will be voting based on stories making out something is ridiculous when it's sensible. For example the Daily Express has a vote which is always 99% Yes, 1% No. People won't get both sides of the story and will make lots of mistakes. Besides many don't have or use phones. And snobs can ring more than people can so it eon't be fair.
Refrendums were mis-used by Hitler to get his way so it's not at all foolproof.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This country will never vote into Government a hard left party, never has and never will.

There has been Labour governments before Tony Blair wanted to move towards the centre. And the Tories were left leaning under "Super Mac".

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I've worked on counts. Your vote will get cast aside and ignored.

...

Far better to vote for someone, even a minority party/person you have some support for. They will be counted.

Good, I don't expect what I will put on the ballot to get anything more than a dissatisfied glance but that's enough for me.

I would also argue against your second point. The way I judge most of life, including things like political elections, is that the lesser of two evils is still evil. As soon as I put a X next to anyone I give them my consent to do whatever they or another do, that's the problem. I will never give anyone that permission.

 

[Tetchytyke]

If you abstain you get filed in the box "too lazy to vote" and you'll be ignored.

If you spoil your ballot paper you get filed in the box "too thick to vote" and you'll be ignored.

Until you get "none of the above" as a formal option, you may as well vote for the party that's your favourite choice.

 

[Johnuk123]

There has been Labour governments before Tony Blair wanted to move towards the centre. And the Tories were left leaning under "Super Mac".

I repeat we have never had a hard left Govt. and never will, those you describe are hardly hard left.

 

[Nursey1]

This country will never vote into Government a hard left party, never has and never will.

Well I'm old enough to remember proper socialist Goverments. They were elected in the past
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

People will be voting based on stories making out something is ridiculous when it's sensible. For example the Daily Express has a vote which is always 99% Yes, 1% No. People won't get both sides of the story and will make lots of mistakes. Besides many don't have or use phones. And snobs can ring more than people can so it eon't be fair.
Refrendums were mis-used by Hitler to get his way so it's not at all foolproof.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


There has been Labour governments before Tony Blair wanted to move towards the centre. And the Tories were left leaning under "Super Mac".

I'm not saying it's perfect and perhaps there should be more than one way to vote.
British voters are better than most at seeing through media hype. There may be mistakes made but they would be our mistakes, our responsibility
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I repeat we have never had a hard left Govt. and never will, those you describe are hardly hard left.

I didn't mean "hard left" just properly socialist

 

[Johnuk123]

I didn't mean "hard left" just properly socialist

I would say they're the same thing.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Until you get "none of the above" as a formal option, you may as well vote for the party that's your favourite choice.

Not really, if you just keep voting because there's nowt else you can do as you attest, no-one will ever recognise the problem that people disagree with the current system, ergo they'll never have a need to create a 'None of the above' option...

Being ignored or considered lazy is more than fine by me, I'd rather have that than put a tick next to any of the lot on offer.

 

[Nursey1]

I would say they're the same thing.

No. Hard left to me is collective ownership, nationalisation of industry. No private school or hospitals for instance. Bit more like a communist collective

Socialism is different

I would like to see a Labour Party that considered re - nationalising the railway and perhaps some utilities. Who outlawed zero hours contracts and proposed a move to a national living wage that would properly support a family life. That would take on large global corporations that take all their profits out of the UK and put no taxes back in

Then I might just vote labour again

 

[Johnuk123]

No. Hard left to me is collective ownership, nationalisation of industry. No private school or hospitals for instance. Bit more like a communist collective

Sounds very much like a future labour party manifesto (written by Unite of course)

 

[Nursey1]

Sounds very much like a future labour party manifesto (written by Unite of course)

LOL

No my original point was that I would just like some honesty from the main parties and thus a proper choice. No more lies and evasions til you get in then the real agenda coming out
If the democratic decision is a UKIP style Conservative government then so be it but at least we knew what they stood for and the consequences would be our own fault

 

[Johnuk123]

LOL

No my original point was that I would just like some honesty from the main parties and thus a proper choice. No more lies and evasions til you get in then the real agenda coming out
If the democratic decision is a UKIP style Conservative government then so be it but at least we knew what they stood for and the consequences would be our own fault

I'm afraid you won't find many countries in the world that has politicians that always do what they say they're going to do.

I think that if a party fails to deliver on its main promises unless they have a good reason they should be forced into a new election.

 

[Nursey1]

What about this for a fresh way of doing things then

How about we elect MPs who simply vote the way their constituents tell them (via phone app for example). It would stop the lobbying, spin and focus groups immediately and would surely be a better more truly democratic System

 

[Johnuk123]

What about this for a fresh way of doing things then

Nothing would be better than mp's voting that way, unfortunately it's unlikely to happen.

 

[Oswyntail]

..... The Tories are more UKIP than they currently admit and labour needs to go back to its root and move further to the left....

I would love to know a) why you think that about the Conservatives (other than from the hot air spouted by Labour) an b) why you think Labour "needs" to move left (unless you want it to commit electoral suicide). I agree there is not that much choice in terms of policy, as we have two centrist parties who very much agree about what has to be done, and have only minor disagreement about how to do it. In terms of people, however, there is not a single member of the Labour front bench who seems able to articulate a proper argument for anything they propose, which perhaps explains why their idea of opposition is a mixture of scare stories, exaggerations and insults. This leads me to suspect they would - again - be a disaster if they came to power.

 

[Nursey1]

I would love to know a) why you think that about the Conservatives (other than from the hot air spouted by Labour) an b) why you think Labour "needs" to move left (unless you want it to commit electoral suicide). I agree there is not that much choice in terms of policy, as we have two centrist parties who very much agree about what has to be done, and have only minor disagreement about how to do it. In terms of people, however, there is not a single member of the Labour front bench who seems able to articulate a proper argument for anything they propose, which perhaps explains why their idea of opposition is a mixture of scare stories, exaggerations and insults. This leads me to suspect they would - again - be a disaster if they came to power.

Well
A. Conservative long history of europhobia. They have been tearing themselves apart on this for 30 years - they have buried it because the rows were making them unelectable.
The defections from Cons to UKIP and the previous voting pattern of UKIP grassroots support

B. I would like Labour to move to the left so that we could have that choice.

I share your reservations about the current Labour leadership but I've no confidence in our current cabinet either.

Altogether a sorry bunch

 

[Oswyntail]

Well
A. Conservative long history of europhobia. They have been tearing themselves apart on this for 30 years - they have buried it because the rows were making them unelectable.
The defections from Cons to UKIP and the previous voting pattern of UKIP grassroots support...

This is what puzzles me, not just here but in general. Surely the presence of UKIP, and the odd (very odd) defection will make the Conservatives less split, as there is an alternative. Yet commentators would suggest that UKIP is dragging them to the right.

 

[Nursey1]

This is what puzzles me, not just here but in general. Surely the presence of UKIP, and the odd (very odd) defection will make the Conservatives less split, as there is an alternative. Yet commentators would suggest that UKIP is dragging them to the right.

I see what you are saying but think the defections are the tip of the iceberg.
It rattles them. Internally party members must be saying that they have to be more UKIP to stop more defections and privately many of them would like that anyway

 

[WatcherZero]

President of the RMT Peter Pinkney has joined the Greens and will stand as their candidate for Redcar because Labour 'aren't socialist enough' and 'A reddish Conservative Party'. You may remember the RMT union was expelled from Labour affiliation ten years ago for supporting the Scottish Socialist party and has been led by the Champagne Socialist Bob Crow.

Reportedly Greens aren't very happy with him describing them as a socialist party.