Carmarthen to Aberystwyth Reopening?

[Gareth Marston]

1830 start

 

[Llanigraham]

Thanks Gareth.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Any railway scheme is a pipe dream to the powers that be these days.
Camarthen to Aberystwyth looks great to connect the West with Cardiff by rail but that's how far the benefit goes. Sparse population a lot of which live away from the route of the line.

Trawslink claim that more people live along the route than along the Cambrian mainline! Some ropey methodology must have been used including the whole population of Ceredigion and half of Carmathanshire.

If you analysis by medium super output area 5 out of the 8 areas in Ceredigion are along the route giving about 45k tops.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Didn't the LNWR once have a line that enabled rail travel from Ffairfach on the Heart of Wales line through Abergwili to gain access to Carmarthen?

 

[Gareth Marston]

Didn't the LNWR once have a line that enabled rail travel from Ffairfach on the Heart of Wales line through Abergwili to gain access to Carmarthen?

Your thinking of the GWR branch from Landeilo to Carmarthan.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Your thinking of the GWR branch from Landeilo to Carmarthan.

When I mentioned the LNWR, was that company not involved at some time with the Llanelly Railway and Dock Company?

Your spelling of the word in your posting that I have emboldened intruiges me and I wonder if this is an alternative anglicised spelling? I still have not got over receiving a lesson on this website as to the spelling of the word Landudno (with only one "L" at the start, as a part of arcane Welsh method of usage).

 

[Gareth Marston]

When I mentioned the LNWR, was that company not involved at some time with the Llanelly Railway and Dock Company?

Your spelling of the word in your posting that I have emboldened intruiges me and I wonder if this is an alternative anglicised spelling? I still have not got over receiving a lesson on this website as to the spelling of the word Landudno (with only one "L" at the start, as a part of arcane Welsh method of usage).

It's probably the auto predict on my I pad! I'm in the kitchen cooking at the moment the I pad is very handy I can catch up on stuff whilst doing other things but does have some disadvantages!

Still I bet Trawslink will have to do alchemy to get the line rebuilt!

 

[Oxfordblues]

I well recall over 50 years ago travelling by train from Caernarfon to Afon Wen. It was a very slow journey and there were only a handful of passengers on board. Buses were faster, cheaper and more frequent (Clynnog & Trefor direct to Pwllheli and Crosville via Criccieth). At Brynkir for example we had a driver, fireman and guard on the train and a porter/signalman at the station but nobody boarded and just one old lady alighted. I was just 12 but the line did really feel like a lost cause even then. If only DMUs were deployed, with RETB signalling, the line might have survived. I imagine Carmarthen-Aberystwyth was very similar.

 

[CapitalStar378]

I can't imagine where the money would come from for this, especially as the WG have put Beddau on the back burner which is nowhere near as expensive and would be a lot busier.

 

[jones_bangor]

I can't imagine where the money would come from for this, especially as the WG have put Beddau on the back burner which is nowhere near as expensive and would be a lot busier.

This would be a long term, somewhat symbolic, project, but it really would open up rural Ceredigion. Benefits for quick travel to Cardiff and beyond....

This would have to be linked with linespeed / modernisation of the Cambrian, and reopening on Bangor - Afon Wen....
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At Brynkir for example we had a driver, fireman and guard on the train and a porter/signalman at the station but nobody boarded and just one old lady alighted. I was just 12 but the line did really feel like a lost cause even then. If only DMUs were deployed, with RETB signalling, the line might have survived. I imagine Carmarthen-Aberystwyth was very similar.

This does sum up why the Beeching cuts were so severe....preservation of outdated working practices (Trade Union agenda) must have cost many rural lines / destroyed the viability of many lines that did "escape", but to be cut later e.g. Caernarfon - Bangor....

 

[The Planner]

This would have to be linked with linespeed / modernisation of the Cambrian.

Eh? The Cambrian is effectively the most modern line in the country at the minute! Good luck with getting anything else major done to that in the next 40 years.

 

[Bald Rick]

This does sum up why the Beeching cuts were so severe....preservation of outdated working practices (Trade Union agenda) must have cost many rural lines / destroyed the viability of many lines that did "escape", but to be cut later e.g. Caernarfon - Bangor....

Well, yes, but. If there's no one on the trains, it doesn't matter how modern the working practises are, it is not going to pay and clearly doesn't serve a social purpose if no one is using it!

 

[ivanhoe]

When a large bus company pulls out of West Wales and curtails its operations to North Wales, it shows the problem in that area. Whilst local bus companies have picked up some of the routes, it remains a highly subsidized operation. That tells me that any expansion of rail in West Wales is extremely unlikely in both my lifetime and my sons lifetimes. The money would be better spent in improving the roads in the region.

 

[sammorris]

When a large bus company pulls out of West Wales and curtails its operations to North Wales, it shows the problem in that area. Whilst local bus companies have picked up some of the routes, it remains a highly subsidized operation. That tells me that any expansion of rail in West Wales is extremely unlikely in both my lifetime and my sons lifetimes. The money would be better spent in improving the roads in the region.

If it were up to me I'd first of all invest in improving the bus service - adding express limited stop services, countdown boards and so on - and through ticketing with National Rail. So many more people would take a coach link if it appeared on the journey planner websites (other than traveline, which no-one uses).

Looking at the original alignment - very twisty in places - I'd guess it would be no quicker than a bus anyway between Aberystwyth and Carmarthen.

Unfortunately I believe improving bus services beyond what has already been done in Wales is legally due to bus deregulation - which may well be why there's often so much public pressure to reopen railway lines which are far from commercially viable.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

SARPA have got the Plaid candidate for Montgomeryshire coming to their meeting in the Unicorn, Caersws on Tuesday evening. No doubt we might hear something from them on the subject.

I hope to be able to read some posting comment from forum members who are able to attend this meeting later today.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Wonder if there will be a paper or silver collection to fund it .....

 

[Llanigraham]

Not got there, I'm afraid.
SWMBO got the car!!

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Not got there, I'm afraid.
SWMBO got the car!!

For peace & quiet take the phone off the hook!

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Eh? The Cambrian is effectively the most modern line in the country at the minute! Good luck with getting anything else major done to that in the next 40 years.

For a given value of "modern", Mr Planner!

 

[topydre]

This is the Cambrian News reporting on the meeting between TrawsLink Cymru members (and 2 ams) and the Transport Minister. It's looking positive (but a lot more work still to be done)

http://www.cambrian-news.co.uk/news/i/45840/

THE REOPENING of the Aberystwyth to Carmarthen railway line would help boost the Ceredigion economy as well as providing a filip for universities and the tourism sector, Welsh Government transport minister Edwina Hart was told on Friday.
Ms Hart had joined AMs Elin Jones and Simon Thomas in Lampeter to meet members of the Traws Link Cymru group who are campaigning to reopen the rail link between Aber ystwyth, Tregaron, Lampeter and Car-marthen.
Having heard presentations from Traws-Link members and students’ representative Bethan Morgan, the minister agreed to arrange a meeting between her senior officials and the Traws Link group, to explore issues such as the economic benefits and landownership issues, before considering a pre-feasibility study on the project.
“I’m delighted that the transport minister was able to visit Lampeter to meet with the Traws Link group,” said Ms Jones. “We had a very positive meeting, and discussed ways to take this project forward.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Not got there, I'm afraid.
SWMBO got the car!!

Good turn out. Plaid candidate and his agent at least use the railway and have ideas for it. Bottom line is that Plaid hope to be in position to form a loose alliance with SNP/Greens to vote to support a minority Labour administration in return for a lot of extra £ for Wales which will be spent on infrastructure projects across Wales and not M4 relief road. They said they want to look at cost of Carmarthen to Aberystwyth seriously.

 

[Delta558]

Looking at the original alignment - very twisty in places - I'd guess it would be no quicker than a bus anyway between Aberystwyth and Carmarthen.

Not half as twisty as the roads! If it ever does go ahead, I hope it takes some of the traffic off the roads - lost count of the number of times I've been forced into a hedge by an oncoming bus or lorry in the middle of the road.

 

[Greenback]

If it ever gets as far as a pre feasibility study, I'll be amazed.

 

[CardiffKid]

Good turn out. Plaid candidate and his agent at least use the railway and have ideas for it. Bottom line is that Plaid hope to be in position to form a loose alliance with SNP/Greens to vote to support a minority Labour administration in return for a lot of extra £ for Wales which will be spent on infrastructure projects across Wales and not M4 relief road. They said they want to look at cost of Carmarthen to Aberystwyth seriously.

But any new M4 is the responsibility of the Welsh Government, so in the unlikely event Plaid's 3 or 4 MPs* are in any position of power they won't be able to stop the M4.

They might be in a position to provide extra funding (where from is a matter for discussion elsewhere) but you're talking of a lot of cash for one project in one corner of Wales which only directly effects two thinly populated counties.

*There was a poll last week that suggested the SNP could win 31 seats and Plaid 1. Even though 1 is very unlikely the SNP are going to outweigh Plaid so much, I think they'll be lucky to get a look in post 2015

Sorry back to trains...

 

[Chris125]

This is the Cambrian News reporting on the meeting between TrawsLink Cymru members (and 2 ams) and the Transport Minister. It's looking positive (but a lot more work still to be done)

They weren't going to be told to go away and stop wasting everyone's time, the only way to know if it's being taken seriously is if they stump up some meaningful cash... though even that can sometimes be more about politics than any economic rationale.

Chris

 

[Greenback]

Any cash that is stumped up will be a complete waste. No sane government is going to commit to this project when there is so much else that has a higher priority.

 

[Gareth Marston]

But any new M4 is the responsibility of the Welsh Government, so in the unlikely event Plaid's 3 or 4 MPs* are in any position of power they won't be able to stop the M4.

They might be in a position to provide extra funding (where from is a matter for discussion elsewhere) but you're talking of a lot of cash for one project in one corner of Wales which only directly effects two thinly populated counties.

*There was a poll last week that suggested the SNP could win 31 seats and Plaid 1. Even though 1 is very unlikely the SNP are going to outweigh Plaid so much, I think they'll be lucky to get a look in post 2015

Sorry back to trains...

The Lib Dems voted through the current Assembly budget on the proviso no more £ were spent on M4 before 2016 Assembly election I believe. They also got a commitment for an extra £10 million for a North Wales transport project widely touted as being associated with Wrexham redouble/station at North Wrexham. That's minority Government in action

I think the answer is how much will Ed Milliband need Plaid votes in the commons, it could be Carwyn Jones's nightmare scenario of Plaid doing deals with Ed behind his back.

Funding a proper study into reopening the line is certainly on Plaids shopping list if they get enough leverage.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Any cash that is stumped up will be a complete waste. No sane government is going to commit to this project when there is so much else that has a higher priority.

depends how bad you want to be PM with a minority of MP's

 

[Greenback]

depends how bad you want to be PM with a minority of MP's

That's why I said sane government!

 

[Gareth Marston]

That's why I said sane government!

Plaid and Lib Dems have experience of formal coalitions and of voting on the hoof to allow minority Governments to govern, to use a rugby analogy they have more caps than the red team @ Westminster on this front and will use their experience if given the chance. We could see some interesting projects coming forward and not just with rail!

 

[Greenback]

You're right, but I'd still be amazed to see this scheme progress beyond the discussion phase. My Plaid friends here are not in favour of this reopening, it seems to be very much a local issue, though to be fair, it is a bit of a Plaid heartland.