The different internal state of 158s

[anti-pacer]

I was watching our friend Michael on "catch-up" last night, sat on an EMT 158, and from what I saw internally, it could have passed for a new train.

Contrast that to the dark and gloomy NT 158 I'm on now (0718 Leeds-Man Vic). Not only do they look like a poor cousin of EMT's great efforts, but there's (within touching distance of me) ripped upholstery, tape over where an armrest should be, and obviously once was, and despite the driver telling me this train had come from the depot (we had a bit of a laugh over 3 platform alterations), the floor looks like it hasn't been hoovered.

I understand Northern Rail's hands being tied with what they run, but the standard of them cosmetically, well I'm sorry but there's no excuse for it.

How do other TOC's compare? ATW, FGW, FSR?

 

[DarloRich]

Cosmetically, the Northern ones are the worst.

 

[Harpers Tate]

Without commenting on the why's, wherefores, and franchise commitments, I agree with this assessment. EMT 158s are pretty darned good. As are the almost identical 159s on SWT. And Northern's are sadly neglected, as with much of their fleet.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Arriva Trains Wales have refitted all of their 158's and they are extremely comfortable now.

Seats are all new with shaped head rest and plug sockets at all table seat and I think light covers have been removed also as they seem a lot brighter.

There is nothing wrong with the 175's but if I see one of the 158's arriving I am always pretty pleased. A very comfortable experience these days.

 

[krus_aragon]

Arriva Trains Wales have refitted all of their 158's and they are extremely comfortable now.

Seats are all new with shaped head rest and plug sockets at all table seat and I think light covers have been removed also as they seem a lot brighter.

There is nothing wrong with the 175's but if I see one of the 158's arriving I am always pretty pleased. A very comfortable experience these days.

Indeed. Post-refurbishment, they are a joy to travel on. The only poor comparison with the 175 is that the under-floor engines are a little louder (but to be fair, they are older units).

It's a vast turnaround from the condition of Arriva's fleet five years ago, when they were tired and worn, with grubby carpets, dingy lighting, and still sporting interior elements from Wales & West, or even Regional Railways! Six years or so ago, on a holiday to Scarborough, I was dumbstruck to see the condition of Northern's 158 fleet, which was excellent by comparison. The vestibule areas and open-plan cycle racks were particularly welcoming, whereas Arriva's still used the shuttered parcel/trolley cupboard as a cycle area, and one could identify where the onboard payphone had been removed from. It goes to show that what goes around, comes around.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Indeed. Post-refurbishment, they are a joy to travel on. The only poor comparison with the 175 is that the under-floor engines are a little louder (but to be fair, they are older units).

It's a vast turnaround from the condition of Arriva's fleet five years ago, when they were tired and worn, with grubby carpets, dingy lighting, and still sporting interior elements from Wales & West, or even Regional Railways! Six years or so ago, on a holiday to Scarborough, I was dumbstruck to see the condition of Northern's 158 fleet, which was excellent by comparison. The vestibule areas and open-plan cycle racks were particularly welcoming, whereas Arriva's still used the shuttered parcel/trolley cupboard as a cycle area, and one could identify where the onboard payphone had been removed from. It goes to show that what goes around, comes around.[/QUOTE=krus_aragon;2048531]

Slightly off topic, sorry, but as you mention the old 158's with previous franchisee's livery still visible, the ATW 175's still have the First group purple plastic facia down the inside of the coaches.

14 years old or more? Even though they have all been refitted? You would have thought these would have also been replaced pretty easily!.

 

[PHILIPE]

We still have the air-conditioning problem during hot weather but whereby the problem varies between 158s of different TOCs

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Without commenting on the why's, wherefores, and franchise commitments, I agree with this assessment. EMT 158s are pretty darned good. As are the almost identical 159s on SWT. And Northern's are sadly neglected, as with much of their fleet.

Isn't EMT and SWT both owned by Stagecoach? If they are I'd expect both to have similar standards

 

[jamesontheroad]

How similar are the EMT and ATW 158 refurbishments in terms of specification and seating configurations?

The few pics I've seen of them suggest they both use the same design of seats. Are the seat layouts identical?

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

How similar are the EMT and ATW 158 refurbishments in terms of specification and seating configurations?

The few pics I've seen of them suggest they both use the same design of seats. Are the seat layouts identical?

Not been on the EMT 158 yet but there is a ATW video they released once they had completed. ( A lot of talking at the start but good video towards the end)

http://youtu.be/THqREPAn1J4

 

[Bletchleyite]

We still have the air-conditioning problem during hot weather but whereby the problem varies between 158s of different TOCs

To solve this requires complete replacement of the aircon system, as the one as built doesn't work properly with non-CFC refrigerants. So if it works for any TOC, they have done that.

Just like Chiltern 16x (lovely) vs fGW (might as well just give up and open the windows).

Neil
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Isn't EMT and SWT both owned by Stagecoach? If they are I'd expect both to have similar standards

And Stagecoach in general put massive weight on the condition and cleanliness of their vehicles, be they buses or trains. It makes them look very, very good indeed.

Arriva and others, OTOH, traditionally don't care as much. The state of some of the (Arriva) buses in Milton Keynes is disgusting, while I rarely see a mucky or tatty Stagecoach bus even if it is a bit old. Though I'll give you that they've done a good job of these 158s. (The ScotRail Inverness based units are similar).

Neil

 

[krus_aragon]

Slightly off topic, sorry, but as you mention the old 158's with previous franchisee's livery still visible, the ATW 175's still have the First group purple plastic facia down the inside of the coaches.

True, but I'm somehow more forgiving of those. Seeing luggage racks still in Regional Railways colours, on the other hand, always tickled me!

 

[northwichcat]

I was watching our friend Michael on "catch-up" last night, sat on an EMT 158, and from what I saw internally, it could have passed for a new train.

The EMT 158s don't actually have PIS and retain the original toilets which are probably the two things most likely to giveaway it's a refurbished train not a new one for people who don't already know. (For regular users EMT drew passenger's attention to their multi-million pound refurbishment.) The air-con is still unreliable on the refurbished 158s but that doesn't necessarily give away that it's an old train.

 

[samj]

I personally find the 3 car 158s that Northern operate, in a lot better condition than the rest which is surprising when they are on Blackpool's constantly.

 

[northwichcat]

I personally find the 3 car 158s that Northern operate, in a lot better condition than the rest which is surprising when they are on Blackpool's constantly.

Those 3 car 158s are ex-FNW driving cars and ex-CT centre cars, while the majority of Northern 158s are ex-ATN (including transpenniexpress units.) FNW did keep their trains in a better internal state than ATN, not that standards at FNW were that high.

 

[sprinterguy]

Those 3 car 158s are ex-FNW driving cars and ex-CT centre cars, while the majority of Northern 158s are ex-ATN (including transpenniexpress units.)

You've got that the wrong way round: The centre cars in the 3-car units are ex-Transpennine Express (the only operation that had 3-car 158s). The majority of Northern's 2-car 158s are ex-Central Trains units, which were in an absolutely woeful condition when they were transferred to Northern in the first place.

 

[northwichcat]

You've got that the wrong way round: The centre cars in the 3-car units are ex-Transpennine Express (the only operation that had 3-car 158s).

Well technically they were ex-CT as well as ex-ATN. CT swapped some of their 2 car 158s for ex-TPE 3 car 158s before DfT decided the centre cars from the 158s should go to Northern. At one stage the remaining 158s at TPE were 2 car 158s in Central colours with a TPE vinyl across the top, while CT were operating 3 car 158s in Northern Spirit/TPE colours with a Central vinyl across the top.

 

[sprinterguy]

At one stage the remaining 158s at TPE were 2 car 158s in Central colours with a TPE vinyl across the top, while CT were operating 3 car 158s in Northern Spirit/TPE colours with a Central vinyl across the top.

That's true, though the cascaded 3-car units weren't with Central Trains as 3-car units for very long.

 

[talltim]

I seem to remember that some EMT 158s had signs in them for a while apologising for the condition of the toilets, saying that units were recently received from another TOC with lower standards (to paraphrase)

 

[sprinterguy]

I seem to remember that some EMT 158s had signs in them for a while apologising for the condition of the toilets, saying that units were recently received from another TOC with lower standards (to paraphrase)

Wasn't that the 156s that came across from Northern when Northern received cascaded 150s from LM (Or did EMT do it with the ex-ATN 158s too?)?

 

[sd0733]

Yes the 4 156s EMT got from northern had the posters up apologising for the condition of the interiors but never sw one in a 158.
At the time of the refurb the ex-tpe 158s were amongst the best of the fleet and from memory i think they were amongst the last to be refurbished. The ex-central ones were in a terrible interior state and the 4 ex-fgw ones werent much better.

 

[trentside]

How similar are the EMT and ATW 158 refurbishments in terms of specification and seating configurations?

The ATW refurbishment is slightly less high density, I believe - there are some additional luggage racks, which the EMT units don't have (as capacity was more important on their refit). The ATW sets also have PIS and plug sockets.

 

[455driver]

I was watching our friend Michael on "catch-up" last night, sat on an EMT 158, and from what I saw internally, it could have passed for a new train.

Contrast that to the dark and gloomy NT 158 I'm on now (0718 Leeds-Man Vic). Not only do they look like a poor cousin of EMT's great efforts, but there's (within touching distance of me) ripped upholstery, tape over where an armrest should be, and obviously once was, and despite the driver telling me this train had come from the depot (we had a bit of a laugh over 3 platform alterations), the floor looks like it hasn't been hoovered.

I understand Northern Rail's hands being tied with what they run, but the standard of them cosmetically, well I'm sorry but there's no excuse for it.

How do other TOC's compare? ATW, FGW, FSR?

So you wouldnt mind your train being cancelled so they could hoover it out then! :roll:

Northern are short of units (I cant be bothered to go into the reasons for the 45th time ) and so they sweat the assets as much as possible, this means the units have very little down time when 'nice to do's' can get done, the only way they could give them a really good clean is to take them out of service so they have the time to do it!

FGWs West fleet is in the same situation!

 

[fgwrich]

The ATW refurbishment is slightly less high density, I believe - there are some additional luggage racks, which the EMT units don't have (as capacity was more important on their refit). The ATW sets also have PIS and plug sockets.

Indeed so. ATWs were done with the scenic views of the Cambrian partially in mind - The Refurbishment is similar in spec to the First ScotRail 'Inverness' Sets with the same Grammer seating, although the FSR Sets contain a small First Class compartment. I just wish LNWR Had fitted the power sockets in the ATW examples a little better though, the last one I had (833 I think) had a few almost falling off already.

I think the most mixed fleet of 158s isn't with Northern now but that of ScotRail - Who have the very smart First Group refurbished 'Inverness Sets', The National Express refurbished sets with the 'marmite' Richmond seating, the ex South West Trains Sets x 2, Ex Wessex Trains and Ex Central Trains 158s - all with a varying degree of interior standards. Northern's fleet vary from tired to tired, but should at least by now have the same seat covers and carpet.

And as for the SWT Sets, I gather there is talk soon about giving the fleet a much needed reconfiguration and reseating them during their next overhaul - Hopefully with the same Grammer Seats as the other sets, and not SWTs preferred Desiro seats (also Grammer).

 

[Bletchleyite]

I never quite understood why the Inverness sets got First Class (which isn't much different from Standard) given that the routes they mostly run on are Standard only.

But I agree they are very nice indeed inside.

Neil

 

[talltim]

Wasn't that the 156s that came across from Northern when Northern received cascaded 150s from LM (Or did EMT do it with the ex-ATN 158s too?)?

Could be. I don't normally see the EMT 156s but sometimes they use them on the Norwich-Liverpool.

 

[SprinterMan]

How similar are the EMT and ATW 158 refurbishments in terms of specification and seating configurations?

The few pics I've seen of them suggest they both use the same design of seats. Are the seat layouts identical?

They are very similar inside apart from colour scheme. The main difference is that Arriva use much deeper softer headrests than EMT do. ATW ones are squishy and lovely, while EMT used the shallower harder ones FGW HSTs use.

Adam

 

[SeanG]

I never quite understood why the Inverness sets got First Class (which isn't much different from Standard) given that the routes they mostly run on are Standard only.

But I agree they are very nice indeed inside.

Neil

Last summer I sat in the first class bit upon leaving wick but soon realised that with the curtains you could hardly see anything and so moved back into the proper part of the train.

I think one reason they have first class is that they travel to Edinburgh/Glasgow

 

[387star]

EMT didn't replace the toilets? Surprised are there pictures of what they. Look like ie did they replace the flush levers with push buttons?

Surely the whole EMT sprinter fleet requires work soon before 2020

FGW units especially the toilets are in need of a refit ... The Richmond bases often come off as well

 

[61653 HTAFC]

One trick to watch out for, any 158 cars that have only been refreshed since leaving ATN's original Transpennine Express fleet will have comfier seats (original seats with extra padding). This includes the centre cars with Northern. Ex-CT units should be avoided where possible, it was a 2hr nightmare when they turned up on the Cambrian prior to ATW's excellent refurbishment. Though back then, the former 'Alphaline' units weren't much better!