Trivia: Unique London bus routes

[Statto]

Which London bus route has the longest dead mileage from its garage to take up the route? I was thinking of something like the 181 or 284 from Grove Park which Metrobus run from their Orpington Garage which is around 7 miles, but I am sure there are others which are longer.

82 runs dead from North Finchley to Potters Bar Garage, big problem if one breaks down in Central London, will be an age before it's rescued.

 

[Busaholic]

LT did run garage journeys in service

Yes, mostly. The most varied were the Dalston Garage workings from Liverpool Street/Shoredich, because the 9 went via Dalston Junction, the 11 via Bethnal Green Road, and the 47 and 78 via Hackney Road, thus giving useful extra services along those roads.
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For a start, some buses on the 181 / 284 start / finish at Lewisham which is further.

There seem to be a few 21s that appear / disappear at the Newington Green end of the route, and 36s from the Queens Park end.

There must be a few fairly hefty garage journeys on some night routes - N11s from Stockwell garage to / from Ealing might be a contender.

And some of the school bus routes have odd allocations - Camberwell now do the 624 (Avery Hill - Grove Park) - presumably this makes sense somewhere along the line, maybe if Camberwell have another peak working that can use the same bus?)

As to "why not run them in service" - it's a bit two edged. Would a few obscure and irregular journeys, in some cases off the normal line of routes at odd times of day (as used to happen - 13's in service from London Bridge to Rye Lane via bits of the 21 then 63 route is one extreme example) give that much benefit to passengers compared with the additional driver time cost (that would end up with more duties being needed somewhere along the line if duties went over the limit for a day's work) of running in service?

And dealing with the confusion / complaints / need to update timetables at bus stops each time a route changed operator and / or garage?

I remember those 13s: they provided a very useful and quite frequent connection from London Bridge to Peckham years before the 381 came along. Later on, Muswell Hill had a small allocation on the 13 which ran on in service from Golders Green to MH via the 102.

One example I can give from personal experience of where a working garage journey would be useful: the 417 at the end of the evening peak from Streatham Hill Station is very popular for many de-training and wanting to avoid the relentlessly uphill walk along Leigham Court Road, and while one is waiting the sometimes ten to twenty minutes two or three empty 133s are making their way up to Crown Point, then down to Norwood Garage, which would suffice probably 90% of waiting passengers. Both routes out of Norwood Garage, what's the problem? Forget i-bus as a reason, we managed without it all those years.

 

[Tom B]

There is a regular spectacle of service 263 buses in the morning/evening running empty from Potters Bar, along the normal route to Highbury, but displaying "not in service". Indeed, I was once on a broken down 263 service when one of these approached - suggested to the driver that he could flag down his colleague and arrange to take the passengers was deemed "impossible". Sigh.

 

[Busaholic]

There is a regular spectacle of service 263 buses in the morning/evening running empty from Potters Bar, along the normal route to Highbury, but displaying "not in service". Indeed, I was once on a broken down 263 service when one of these approached - suggested to the driver that he could flag down his colleague and arrange to take the passengers was deemed "impossible". Sigh.

Management of London Transport used to moan, with some good reason, about Trade Union intrasigence. It is has now been replaced by management intransigence, hiding behind bureaucratic and technological issues which, if common sense was seen as a virtue, could be easily solved. Unfortunately the route contract system militates against this approach. Alas, and sigh.

P.S.Even with the recent 263 extension to Highbury, Holloway Road south of the Nag's Head has a very poor frequency of bus service compared to twenty or thirty years ago, despite the increases elsewhere. This road has always been a favourite of transport photographers and, day or evening, there were always plenty of trams, trolleybuses and, latterly, buses to be seen. Viewing bus stop info from afar (someone has to do it!) I see 10,15 and 20 minute periods when no buses are due.

 

[Tom B]

Management of London Transport used to moan, with some good reason, about Trade Union intrasigence. It is has now been replaced by management intransigence, hiding behind bureaucratic and technological issues which, if common sense was seen as a virtue, could be easily solved. Unfortunately the route contract system militates against this approach. Alas, and sigh.

P.S.Even with the recent 263 extension to Highbury, Holloway Road south of the Nag's Head has a very poor frequency of bus service compared to twenty or thirty years ago, despite the increases elsewhere. This road has always been a favourite of transport photographers and, day or evening, there were always plenty of trams, trolleybuses and, latterly, buses to be seen. Viewing bus stop info from afar (someone has to do it!) I see 10,15 and 20 minute periods when no buses are due.

It is surely quite possible to put such an empty bus into service - although it is not in the timetable, it effectively is taking over the 'slot' left by a broken down one. I suspect it's too much effort!

The 263 service extension has proved helpful, they used to run pretty much empty between Archway and Holloway NH, but now help mop up passengers from the 43/271 services - the latter often delayed due to staff changeovers at HT. I presume that viewing the timings today you'll have fewer services due to the strike! However, evenings might benefit from better coordination between the three services.

 

[hassaanhc]

It is surely quite possible to put such an empty bus into service - although it is not in the timetable, it effectively is taking over the 'slot' left by a broken down one. I suspect it's too much effort!

The 263 service extension has proved helpful, they used to run pretty much empty between Archway and Holloway NH, but now help mop up passengers from the 43/271 services - the latter often delayed due to staff changeovers at HT. I presume that viewing the timings today you'll have fewer services due to the strike! However, evenings might benefit from better coordination between the three services.

How does the driver finishing their duty get back to the garage then?!

 

[fairysdad]

How does the driver finishing their duty get back to the garage then?!

Bus?

 

[Antman]

For a start, some buses on the 181 / 284 start / finish at Lewisham which is further.

There seem to be a few 21s that appear / disappear at the Newington Green end of the route, and 36s from the Queens Park end.

There must be a few fairly hefty garage journeys on some night routes - N11s from Stockwell garage to / from Ealing might be a contender.

And some of the school bus routes have odd allocations - Camberwell now do the 624 (Avery Hill - Grove Park) - presumably this makes sense somewhere along the line, maybe if Camberwell have another peak working that can use the same bus?)

As to "why not run them in service" - it's a bit two edged. Would a few obscure and irregular journeys, in some cases off the normal line of routes at odd times of day (as used to happen - 13's in service from London Bridge to Rye Lane via bits of the 21 then 63 route is one extreme example) give that much benefit to passengers compared with the additional driver time cost (that would end up with more duties being needed somewhere along the line if duties went over the limit for a day's work) of running in service?

And dealing with the confusion / complaints / need to update timetables at bus stops each time a route changed operator and / or garage?

All things considered I think TfL see it as being more trouble than it's worth which is understandable but from a passenger point of view there is nothing more frusterating than seeing buses sail by out of service when you know they are going where you want to go.

 

[Deerfold]

All things considered I think TfL see it as being more trouble than it's worth which is understandable but from a passenger point of view there is nothing more frusterating than seeing buses sail by out of service when you know they are going where you want to go.

And of course these out-of-service journeys would just suddenly disappear when another company won the contract or a company decided to change the garage they used (usually connected with winning or losing an unconnected route).

 

[Busaholic]

And of course these out-of-service journeys would just suddenly disappear when another company won the contract or a company decided to change the garage they used (usually connected with winning or losing an unconnected route).

Yes, but this also used to happen in L.T. days. Some routes used to change garage allocations practically with the seasons. Passengers knew these were 'extras' and few relied on them. Some bus corridors (e.g. Walthamstow/Leytonstone/Stratford) changed their bus routes more often than some change their socks in the 1970s through to the 1990s.

 

[PeterY]

After reading an earlier post. I decided to ride the 108 from Stratford to Lewisham though the Blackwall tunnel today. I also rode the 65 from Kingston to Ealing Broadway. Such a big contrast in scenery. Also the driver of the 411 from Hampton court to Kingston let me on with a travelcard, I wasn't sure if it was allowed or not.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Some buses on the 108 have bright blue lights above the entrance door - in the tunnel they illuminate the insides of every nearby vehicle!

We just need some speakers for a tunnel rave

 

[Deerfold]

After reading an earlier post. I decided to ride the 108 from Stratford to Lewisham though the Blackwall tunnel today. I also rode the 65 from Kingston to Ealing Broadway. Such a big contrast in scenery. Also the driver of the 411 from Hampton court to Kingston let me on with a travelcard, I wasn't sure if it was allowed or not.

All London (TfL-specified) buses accept travelcards for any zone, so yes that was fine.

 

[lightning76]

How does the driver finishing their duty get back to the garage then?!

PB garage has a people-carrier which takes drivers to/from Barnet Hospital, North Finchley or Waltham Cross as required (for the 263, 82, 217 respectively). Also some buses on all of these routes operate dead during the day (effectively using "spreadover" buses) carrying staff.

 

[RJ]

Some buses on the 108 have bright blue lights above the entrance door - in the tunnel they illuminate the insides of every nearby vehicle!

We just need some speakers for a tunnel rave

It's to reduce reflective glare for the driver, very useful

 

[PermitToTravel]

Very cool too!

 

[Antman]

After reading an earlier post. I decided to ride the 108 from Stratford to Lewisham though the Blackwall tunnel today. I also rode the 65 from Kingston to Ealing Broadway. Such a big contrast in scenery. Also the driver of the 411 from Hampton court to Kingston let me on with a travelcard, I wasn't sure if it was allowed or not.

An all zone travelcard is valid on all buses and trains, the Heathrow Express is about the only exception..

 

[Statto]

411 is a TFL route so a Travelcard should be valid throughout the route.

 

[Deerfold]

An all zone travelcard is valid on all buses and trains, the Heathrow Express is about the only exception..

There's plenty of buses that are exceptions. No TfL-specified ones though.

 

[transmanche]

Route 142 runs from Brent Cross (3 in the days of bus pass zones, and the nearby tube still is) via Hendon (3/4 boundary) through 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 and out to Watford Junction station, which itself is out of zones.. so six zone boundaries. I think that's the one to beat.

Although in the days of Bus Zones, zone 4(5,6) was just one zone.