Sent final reminder letters even though i have not been on a train?

[Haywain]

I hate to disagree, but this is not entirely correct. It is not just possible, but extremely common for an address to be used for such things in this manner. Credit checks are not always completed (in particular, companies offering cards to people who wouldn't get them from conventional companies). For example, many immigrants obtains credit cards with relative ease very shortly after arriving at their destination.That said, probability dictates that this is just a case of someone using an address.

And a touch of casual racism thrown in for good measure? Why shouldn't immigrants obtain credit cards?

 

[reb0118]

For example, many immigrants obtains credit cards with relative ease very shortly after arriving at their destination.

And a touch of casual racism thrown in for good measure?

Not necessarily, I have highlighted the relevant part, to me anyway. Credit cards should only be issued to persons who can prove that they have a good credit rating. It will be harder, although not impossible, for recently arrived immigrants to show this. Q: Is your credit history internationally transferable?

Off topic: Immigrants are not necessarily of a different race.

Why shouldn't immigrants obtain credit cards?

None at all if they fulfil the accepted criteria.

 

[najaB]

Q: Is your credit history internationally transferable?

Not that I'm aware of. Not all credit ratings agencies operate in all jurisdictions anyway.

 

[Haywain]

Not necessarily, I have highlighted the relevant part, to me anyway. Credit cards should only be issued to persons who can prove that they have a good credit rating. It will be harder, although not impossible, for recently arrived immigrants to show this. Q: Is your credit history internationally transferable?

The ability to pay is not necessarily confirmed simply by a good credit rating, and how does the previous poster (or you, come to that) know that they cannot prove they are a good rating? I would have thought that having a good record for paying a card issued by an international banking group in another country will be enough to get a card issued by the same banking group in the UK. And in any case, I'd like to know how the previous poster knows what cards "immigrants" are obtaining.

Off topic: Immigrants are not necessarily of a different race.

Maybe not, but comments such as that usually assume that they are.

 

[blakey1152]

Evening all , & thanks for the replies . The first letter I opened without thinking & my other half opened the other. Like I said I wrote to them yesterday so I'm waiting for a response! If any other letters come I should not open then?

I have been checking bank accounts etc. Because alarm bells rang for me as to regard of I.D theft. Nothing seems to be wrong on that front. We are a family with no one else living here & I am careful to shred all addresses and keep my PC clean from virus & the like.

This happened in November & the fare was for £4 bloody pound. Who in gods green earth would dodge a fair of £4. I have looked for a number but the web-site has nothing on there.

I would imagine that the chances are more people would try and dodge lower fares rather than longer distance higher farres as they would think its more likely they'd get away with it when its a shorter distance.

Blakey

 

[Deerfold]

Even doorstep lenders, do credit checks, as do "bad credit/credit builder" card companies. They just have much looser criteria. Penalising someone because they have moved into somewhere where someone else has had credit problems in the past would be considered as illegal discrimination.

Has this changed recently? BT seemed to have no problem doing that. When I moved in with my wife in 2001, I'd been living with my dad and my wife had been in a shared house. We moved into a property where the previous occupant had run up phone bills of thousands of pounds. BT would not accept anything as confirmation of our credit rating other than a previous BT account in our names within the last 6 months so we were charged 3 times the normal line rental until we were £100 in credit with them. Whilst we got the money back eventually it was at a time when our finances were thin (but with no bad debts from either of us).

It would take the extremely unlikely circumstance of sharing the sane name as the previous occupant for it to have any affect on your credit rating. And, even then, you can add a note of correction to the file.

My wife had to apply to diassociate herself from a boyfriend (before she met me ) as it was affecting her credit rating. They did not share a name. They did not share an address for much longer.

 

[maniacmartin]

My wife had to apply to diassociate herself from a boyfriend (before she met me ) as it was affecting her credit rating. They did not share a name. They did not share an address for much longer.

Although you can't be associated by address, you can be associated if you share credit, such as a shared mortgage or current account.

 

[Tibbs]

Although you can't be associated by address, you can be associated if you share credit, such as a shared mortgage or current account.

I had this problem where I was in a shared house with a guy who obtained as many credit cards as he could then maxed them and legged it - because all our rent and bills came out of a shared account, it was a nightmare to get fixed, and I'm still not entirely sure it is.

 

[Clip]

And a touch of casual racism thrown in for good measure? Why shouldn't immigrants obtain credit cards?

There was none there - one thinks you are being a little over sensitive. How would you like him to describe immigrants then? Do you have to use a special word instead of the actual word which describes them nowadays?

 

[Deerfold]

There was none there - one thinks you are being a little over sensitive. How would you like him to describe immigrants then? Do you have to use a special word instead of the actual word which describes them nowadays?

I don't think it was the description, it was the surprise that they should be allowed access to credit cards *because they were immigrants*.

 

[Tetchytyke]

When I moved in with my wife in 2001...

The rules were tightened up much more recently than that, when credit companies were reminded about data protection laws.

Credit providers cannot assess based on address alone. They are looking at your history and the history of your financial associates (i.e. anyone you've ever had a joint bank account or credit product with). The history of people who previously lived in your house should be irrelevant, as should the history of people who live in your house but don't share finances with you.

I had this problem where I was in a shared house with a guy who obtained as many credit cards as he could then maxed them and legged it - because all our rent and bills came out of a shared account, it was a nightmare to get fixed, and I'm still not entirely sure it is.

You can apply to the three credit reference agencies to ask them to break the financial link with that person. But your situation shows that you need to be careful who you make financial associations with (although if you don't add housemates to bills then you may find you're left with the whole lot).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There was none there - one thinks you are being a little over sensitive. How would you like him to describe immigrants then? Do you have to use a special word instead of the actual word which describes them nowadays?

I read the comment as rather xenophobic, if not downright racist, too. But that was because of context- I'm genuinely at a loss as to why someone's nationality has any relevance to a topic about credit records.

 

[Deerfold]

The rules were tightened up much more recently than that, when credit companies were reminded about data protection laws.

Thanks for the update. My only work links to credit records were broken in 2001 - just before I made that move - when I stopped working for a bank (and I was only involved with personal loans briefly).

 

[najaB]

Has this changed recently? BT seemed to have no problem doing that. When I moved in with my wife in 2001, I'd been living with my dad and my wife had been in a shared house. We moved into a property where the previous occupant had run up phone bills of thousands of pounds...

They do this because it's not uncommon to (purely coincidentally of course) have a sequence of people apply for service in the same address (who of course give different names), run up a bill of hundreds or thousands of pounds and then move out.

The fact that you had been living with your mum and dad probably meant that you didn't have a history of paying bills in your own name - in many ways no credit history has the same effect as a poor credit history.

I'm surprised though that they asked for a large deposit, because the usual way of dealing with situations like this is to set the customer up with a limited account that can't run up huge bills. In the old days it would be a pre-paid account, not sure what they do these days.

 

[Deerfold]

They do this because it's not uncommon to (purely coincidentally of course) have a sequence of people apply for service in the same address (who of course give different names), run up a bill of hundreds or thousands of pounds and then move out.

Is that different to any other service/utility?

The fact that you had been living with your mum and Dad probably meant that you didn't have a history of paying bills in your own name - in many ways no credit history has the same effect as a poor credit history.

Corrected that for you.

I had lived on my own for some years previously and had built up quite a good credit record (and still had a couple of credit cards which were regularly paid off).

My wife had lived in her own house for 3 years with her name being on most of the bills before moving to rented accommodation for a year for a job a couple of hundred miles away.

We had no trouble getting gas / electric on normal terms based on our credit ratings - or passing the landlord's credit checks.

I'm surprised though that they asked for a large deposit, because the usual way of dealing with situations like this is to set the customer up with a limited account that can't run up huge bills. In the old days it would be a pre-paid account, not sure what they do these days.

We asked if they could set a limit on our calling as our main reason for the phone line was to get broadband internet access (at, I believe, a rate of 512kb) but were told that wasn't an option. It was most annoying paying the extra with monthly call charges regularly under a pound a month.

 

[Antman]

Evening all , & thanks for the replies . The first letter I opened without thinking & my other half opened the other. Like I said I wrote to them yesterday so I'm waiting for a response! If any other letters come I should not open then?

I have been checking bank accounts etc. Because alarm bells rang for me as to regard of I.D theft. Nothing seems to be wrong on that front. We are a family with no one else living here & I am careful to shred all addresses and keep my PC clean from virus & the like.

This happened in November & the fare was for £4 bloody pound. Who in gods green earth would dodge a fair of £4. I have looked for a number but the web-site has nothing on there.

I think you'll find quite a lot of people would avoid paying a fare of £4 but if it wasn't you then you have nothing to worry about. We've had letters demanding money addressed to the person who lived here before us but just returned them explaining that he no longer lived here.

 

[najaB]

Corrected that for you.

Sorry about that, I misread what you had written.

Is that different to any other service/utility?

It's much more common with BT (and other communications companies) than, say, gas or electric providers as there is only so much electricity you can use. Plus, after the first couple of customers the utilities will fit a credit meter.

We had no trouble getting gas / electric on normal terms based on our credit ratings - or passing the landlord's credit checks.

That's a bit surprising as they would all be going through the same credit agencies.

We asked if they could set a limit on our calling as our main reason for the phone line was to get broadband internet access (at, I believe, a rate of 512kb) but were told that wasn't an option. It was most annoying paying the extra with monthly call charges regularly under a pound a month.

If it was as long ago as 512kb/s broadband then it likely was in the days when I was working in a call centre and worked on an outsourced BT sales campaign. In those days if you wanted broadband then the only option was a deposit as the pre-paid phone line was incompatible with broadband from any supplier.

 

[Deerfold]

It's much more common with BT (and other communications companies) than, say, gas or electric providers as there is only so much electricity you can use. Plus, after the first couple of customers the utilities will fit a credit meter.That's a bit surprising as they would all be going through the same credit agencies.

BT told us they would not use any credit agencies or contact our banks and because of the previous problems at the address the only positive information they'd consider was a BT account in either of our names from the previous 6 months which was frustrating as we could not magic that up but could refer them to positive credit histories.

We asked if they could put a cap on call costs but were told that was not possible either.

If it was as long ago as 512kb/s broadband then it likely was in the days when I was working in a call centre and worked on an outsourced BT sales campaign. In those days if you wanted broadband then the only option was a deposit as the pre-paid phone line was incompatible with broadband from any supplier.

We did not pay a deposit as such - we paid extra each month on our phone bill, building up a credit.

This was unconnected (directly) to our need for broadband which we paid for seperately (though that was why we wanted a landline - otherwise we'd have probably not bothered with the hassle it took to get one).

 

[najaB]

BT told us they would not use any credit agencies...

You were misinformed. They do use a credit agency, though I don't think I should say which one. I used to read the pre-application credit check statement about 40 times a day. One of my best days was reading it out to Roman Abramovich's PA - couldn't actually do the credit check as they couldn't provide address history.

 

[Deerfold]

You were misinformed.

Sounds about right. I'm glad to be free of BT these days as I don't think anything was ever straightforward or honest with them. When we had line rental but not broadband with them they were forever ringing up to try to get me to change to them. I told them (twice!) that if they kept ringing I'd change the line too. They didn't listen and kept ringing. So I kept my promise (though unfortunately BT wholesale are still involved somewhere).

My wife has refused to speak with anyone from BT (delegating to me) since I first met her due to them having previously wound her up so much.

They do use a credit agency, though I don't think I should say which one. I used to read the pre-application credit check statement about 40 times a day.

They'd have had trouble with us as they didn't ask for any bank details or previous addresses despite us being keen to supply them.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Not necessarily, I have highlighted the relevant part, to me anyway. Credit cards should only be issued to persons who can prove that they have a good credit rating. It will be harder, although not impossible, for recently arrived immigrants to show this. Q: Is your credit history internationally transferable?

Credit cards could be issued with low credit limits initially (say £200) to allow someone to build a credit history, by buying on the card and paying it back.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You were misinformed. They do use a credit agency, though I don't think I should say which one. I used to read the pre-application credit check statement about 40 times a day. One of my best days was reading it out to Roman Abramovich's PA - couldn't actually do the credit check as they couldn't provide address history.

There's no problem with saying which one.

Those who check their credit record with that agency will know which one they use as the account information is on there.

As I check my report with all three companies (I've just become debt free!), I know exactly who it is.

It's Equifax

 

[Clip]

I don't think it was the description, it was the surprise that they should be allowed access to credit cards *because they were immigrants*.

I read the comment as rather xenophobic, if not downright racist, too. But that was because of context- I'm genuinely at a loss as to why someone's nationality has any relevance to a topic about credit records.

Well you both read it wrong then. He said

relative ease very shortly after arriving at their destination

Whereas it could and does take a native many years to build a credit report to enable them to get a credit card.

Downright racist? Don't make me laugh.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don't think it was the description, it was the surprise that they should be allowed access to credit cards *because they were immigrants*.

I read the comment as rather xenophobic, if not downright racist, too. But that was because of context- I'm genuinely at a loss as to why someone's nationality has any relevance to a topic about credit records.

Well you both read it wrong then. He said

relative ease very shortly after arriving at their destination

Whereas it could and does take a native many years to build a credit report to enable them to get a credit card.

Downright racist? Don't make me laugh.

ETA: How the poster knows this I haven't a clue but there you go.

And Id like to point out that that's 3 of you now who made the link to a persons race just because he used the word immigrant and that shows all 3 of you in a worse light than the poster concerned

 

[Tetchytyke]

Credit cards could be issued with low credit limits initially (say £200) to allow someone to build a credit history, by buying on the card and paying it back.

That's how most of the "credit history repair" credit cards work. They're actually not such a bad idea, either, if the customer pays the balance in full every month.

Many of these companies directly target people who've recently come out of bankruptcy or an IVA, because they are (counter-intuitively) seen as a good risk. They can charge high interest rates to these people yet, after the deprivation of bankruptcy or an IVA, the customers will be determined not to have issues again.

Whereas it could and does take a native many years to build a credit report to enable them to get a credit card.

"A native", whatever one of those is, will find it no more difficult to obtain credit than an "immigrant" (whatever one of those is).

And Id like to point out that that's 3 of you now who made the link to a persons race just because he used the word immigrant and that shows all 3 of you in a worse light than the poster concerned

Context is everything; I seriously doubt that the poster is lamenting the odd Irish person or returning Brit getting a credit card. Maybe I'm being unfair on him, maybe he is bothered about the odd returning Brit and couldn't give a hoot about the Poles and the Chinese :roll:

 

[Deerfold]

Well you both read it wrong then. He said

It says just what I thought it said.

Whereas it could and does take a native many years to build a credit report to enable them to get a credit card.

So immigrants shouldn't be allowed credit cards for a certain period after they arrive? I'm not suggesting cards with huge limits but if you can prove your address I don't see why they shouldn't get one (I've received an advert for a credit card with a huge rate of interest with a list of "problems" I could have had and they'd still accept me).

Downright racist? Don't make me laugh.

I believe the phrase used was "casually racist".

ETA: How the poster knows this I haven't a clue but there you go.

I rather wondered that too.

And Id like to point out that that's 3 of you now who made the link to a persons race just because he used the word immigrant and that shows all 3 of you in a worse light than the poster concerned

If a quote is about all immigrants (and there was nothing to say it wasn't), I think it's safe to assume that a substantial portion would be people of other races. I speak as someone whose grandfather was a white european immigrant so I'm quite aware they exist. If you've any figures to show I'm wrong, please do correct me.

 

[Clip]

You know exactly what I meant by saying 'a native' in the context I did(seeing as you are so fond of context) and you know exactly what an 'immigrant' is so stop trying to be clever because it isnt working.

 

[bb21]

I think we are all getting a little ahead of ourselves here.

I don't think there is any evidence of racism, or "casual" racism as it were, personally. I don't think it is unreasonable for an average Joe from the street to assume that someone who has no credit history (a newly-arrived immigrant merely being an example) should not be given a credit card generally speaking. After all, we have all been repeatedly told by all and sundry that if we have a poor credit history, we should expect to encounter problems should we apply for credit in the future.

However many of us know that it does not work exactly like that. Individual institutions have their own criteria as to who they wish to lend money to, and a good example given upthread is that a newly-arrived immigrant may have a good credit history with the same bank in another country, so that may be a good enough reason for the bank to offer him a credit card in this country too. It has also been pointed out that there are businesses out there which specialise in helping those with a poor or non-existent credit history build a decent one.

I think too much emphasis has been placed on the issue of racism in this thread unnecessarily, so let's move on.

 

[Clip]

It says just what I thought it said.
So immigrants shouldn't be allowed credit cards for a certain period after they arrive? I'm not suggesting cards with huge limits but if you can prove your address I don't see why they shouldn't get one (I've received an advert for a credit card with a huge rate of interest with a list of "problems" I could have had and they'd still accept me).

.

Thats not what I nor the person said either, you have just made that up. read it again what he wrote.

Yes, those credti building cards from the likes of Aqua and Capital one do seem to give a high APR but if it helps people then so what.

I believe the phrase used was "casually racist".

Well you would be wrong then. Remember, you are the one who has brought 'race' into it and not the person who wrote that post. Think about that for a minute or two.

I rather wondered that too.
If a quote is about all immigrants (and there was nothing to say it wasn't), I think it's safe to assume that a substantial portion would be people of other races. .

That may or may not be so, that does not however make the poster in question 'racist' you and others brought that into play not the poster. Think about that for a minute

I speak as someone whose grandfather was a white european immigrant so I'm quite aware they exist. If you've any figures to show I'm wrong, please do correct me

I have no figures at all at hand to tell me how many immigrants are of other races or who may just be Caucasian but I am sure you could do your research from government figures to find out but to be honest it doesnt really bother me.

Remember , you and others accused that poster of being racist, you brought it into play and I am telling you that you are all wrong and are a symptom of what is quite wrong with certain attitudes in Britain right now as soon as someone who says 'Immigrant'. Maybe look at yourself and your own thoughts and actions rather than trying to bring down someone to your level for having the gall to say something, whether you like it or not.

 

[Deerfold]

Thats not what I nor the person said either, you have just made that up. read it again what he wrote.

As you seem so sure I've misread this, I've gone back and reread the thread.

Let's put some things straight here. Unless someone of that name is registered to vote at that address they will not be able to get credit cards or loans using it. All loan companies use credit reference agency checks and the electoral roll is shared with these agencies. This was a policy introduced as a result of identity theft and in my mind is a very sensible one. If they are using your name and address that is a different matter although the OP stated that the name used was not theirs.

I hate to disagree, but this is not entirely correct. It is not just possible, but extremely common for an address to be used for such things in this manner. Credit checks are not always completed (in particular, companies offering cards to people who wouldn't get them from conventional companies). For example, many immigrants obtains credit cards with relative ease very shortly after arriving at their destination.
That said, probability dictates that this is just a case of someone using an address.

"such things in this manner" I read as people getting credit using a fake address.
"For example, many immigrants obtain credit cards..." I read as suggesting that immigrants are obtaining credit cards fraudulently as this would be the only way to get them so quickly.

Yes, those credti building cards from the likes of Aqua and Capital one do seem to give a high APR but if it helps people then so what.

So people with poor/no credit ratings can get cards legally? People like immigrants?

Well you would be wrong then. Remember, you are the one who has brought 'race' into it and not the person who wrote that post. Think about that for a minute or two.

I've thought about it. You're still seriously suggesting that there are not a large number of people of non-indigenous race in the category "immigrant"?

That may or may not be so, that does not however make the poster in question 'racist' you and others brought that into play not the poster. Think about that for a minute

Gosh, you're really making me think here. Perhaps I just followed the dots. Perhaps that wasn't what the poster meant but it really wasn't hard to read it like that if they really didn't.

I have no figures at all at hand to tell me how many immigrants are of other races or who may just be Caucasian but I am sure you could do your research from government figures to find out but to be honest it doesn't really bother me.

So my assumption could be correct - you just don't like it and don't care?

Remember , you and others accused that poster of being racist, you brought it into play and I am telling you that you are all wrong and are a symptom of what is quite wrong with certain attitudes in Britain right now as soon as someone who says 'Immigrant'. Maybe look at yourself and your own thoughts and actions rather than trying to bring down someone to your level for having the gall to say something, whether you like it or not.

This is my attitude of not assuming that the only way an immigrant can get a credit card is fraudulently? I'm not sure how low a level that is compared to someone who thinks it is.

What attitudes do you think I should correct?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don't think there is any evidence of racism, or "casual" racism as it were, personally. I don't think it is unreasonable for an average Joe from the street to assume that someone who has no credit history (a newly-arrived immigrant merely being an example) should not be given a credit card generally speaking.

That's not an unreasonable assumption. It's the assumption that immigrants do get them - and they get them fraudulently - that we were objecting to.

 

[bb21]

That's not an unreasonable assumption. It's the assumption that immigrants do get them - and they get them fraudulently - that we were objecting to.

Sure. An automatic assumption of a fraudulent nature would not be a reasonable one to have. I don't think this is the message wijit intended to convey, but I can see arguments to the contrary.

I think the thread has run its course, unless anyone has anything else to add.