Refunds from tickets issued by conductor/guard

[Swimo]

So the question is, if I buy a ticket for a few days in advance from the conductor to save me time buying at a station, and then change my mind where do I go for the refund?

Obvious one would be the TOC's customer service department but they take a good month or so to get back... Is there a quicker way?

Could this be done at one of the TOC's ticket offices or any ticket office infact?

Or does the refund have to be issued by another conductor on their AVANTIX?

 

[najaB]

So the question is, if I buy a ticket for a few days in advance from the conductor to save me time buying at a station, and then change my mind where do I go for the refund?

Obvious one would be the TOC's customer service department but they take a good month or so to get back... Is there a quicker way?

Could this be done at one of the TOC's ticket offices or any ticket office infact?

Or does the refund have to be issued by another conductor on their AVANTIX?

I can't see why it would be limited to an Avantix machine, my guess is that it could be refunded at any ticket office.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I don't think you would get an instant refund, no matter where you went.

Avantix can only process refunds issued in the same particular shift.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

You can apply for a refund at a station within 28 days of the expiry date on the ticket, but preferably you should go to one run by the TOC the conductor worked for.

 

[185143]

I purchased a ticket on a train as I had forgotten my season ticket. As it turns out, the TOC that the runs my local ticket office is the same as the TOC who's train I was on, however I was not asked which train I was travelling on at the time.

 

[Swimo]

Okay thanks all, so does anyone have any past experience with this in regards to whether they will issue an instant refund or pass it to customer services and make me wait up to a month for them to process it?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Every ticket has numbers on it that tell staff which machine issued it and where that machine can be found. From this, the TOC can be identified and the refund processed. If it was a different TOC to the office where it is handed in, the refund will be passed on to the issuing TOC. If the TOC is the same it will be processed according to the instructions of that TOC. In some cases that will allow an immediate refund*, in others it will require a more senior authorisation first.

[*well, once all the paperwork is done]

 

[Swimo]

Every ticket has numbers on it that tell staff which machine issued it and where that machine can be found. From this, the TOC can be identified and the refund processed. If it was a different TOC to the office where it is handed in, the refund will be passed on to the issuing TOC. If the TOC is the same it will be processed according to the instructions of that TOC. In some cases that will allow an immediate refund*, in others it will require a more senior authorisation first.

[*well, once all the paperwork is done]

Well detailed information, thank you, appreciate it!

 

[bnm]

Okay thanks all, so does anyone have any past experience with this in regards to whether they will issue an instant refund or pass it to customer services and make me wait up to a month for them to process it?

Experience of just this scenario. Ticket bought on board a train. Wholly unused (second part of a split ticket journey). Returned it to a station operated by the Same TOC on the same day as purchase. Pink refund form filled out and told refund will take up to 4 weeks to process.

9 weeks later I was refunded.

That's what you get for the £10.00 admin fee with First Great Western. You pay for the privilege of a refund, and your £10.00 gets you a service run at glacial speed.

Not an isolated incident with FGW either. I had three occasions in 2014 when I requested refunds. All were tickets bought from them, for travel on their services and returned to them via a ticket office. All took well in excess of 4 weeks.

In my opinion, if you are paying for a refund service it should be processed expeditiously. Even 4 weeks (the usual timescale given by most TOCs when asked) is very poor.

 

[Swimo]

Experience of just this scenario. Ticket bought on board a train. Wholly unused (second part of a split ticket journey). Returned it to a station operated by the Same TOC on the same day as purchase. Pink refund form filled out and told refund will take up to 4 weeks to process.

9 weeks later I was refunded.

That's what you get for the £10.00 admin fee with First Great Western. You pay for the privilege of a refund, and your £10.00 gets you a service run at glacial speed.

Not an isolated incident with FGW either. I had three occasions in 2014 when I requested refunds. All were tickets bought from them, for travel on their services and returned to them via a ticket office. All took well in excess of 4 weeks.

In my opinion, if you are paying for a refund service it should be processed expeditiously. Even 4 weeks (the usual timescale given by most TOCs when asked) is very poor.

Hmm so it's going to be a hit or miss chance of getting it then!

I totally agree, if someone's going to pay £10, it should be refunded within 3-5 working days, MAXIMUM. I don't see why we have to pay for a refund to then wait AT LEAST 4 weeks (in most cases)! It's obsurd, and something should be done about it. They're just trying to keep hold of your money for as long as they can...

 

[najaB]

You pay for the privilege of a refund, and your £10.00 gets you a service run at glacial speed.

I don't think you're paying a premium for the refund. It's a standard admin fee for most (all?) ticket refunds.

 

[bnm]

I don't think you're paying a premium for the refund. It's a standard admin fee for most (all?) ticket refunds.

I didn't use the word 'premium'. A more efficient service should be given in exchange for the £10.00 fee. 4 weeks plus isn't acceptable.

 

[Abpj17]

The refund fee is partly a detterent against fraud/over-use isn't it?

 

[najaB]

A more efficient service should be given in exchange for the £10.00 fee.

That is the point I'm making. You aren't paying a premium (a sum above the nominal or par value of a thing) in order to get a speedy service. £10 is the standard admin refund fee that is charged for all changes/refunds.

It's exactly the same fee that's charged for refunds on tickets bought online - which, by the way are refunded straight away if you haven't collected the tickets.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Why is the admin fee seen as 'paying for a service' or 'paying for the privilege'. It isn't.

The NRCoC gives you the right to a refund under certain conditions, the admin fee is there to cover the costs involved in giving you a refund (where it is not the railway's fault). I don't know whether it does or not, but the idea that you are paying for a privilege or service is quite odd indeed.

 

[maniacmartin]

The service is the administration of processing the refund.

 

[spacehopper]

Just a quick query on refunds:

Railcard discounted ticket bought from TVM. "Accidentally" forgot railcard, guard issues standard price ticket.

Can you get a refund on the "unused" railcard discounted ticket from any booking office? Is it just a case of irrespective of TOC who owns TVM or runs booking office as long as the ticket hasn't been bought on line or is a TOD you can take it to any booking office you fill out a form and once paperwork is all done you will be sent a refund?

Will you still be charged a £10 admin fee or is this just a fee to change tickets?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Just a quick query on refunds:

Railcard discounted ticket bought from TVM. "Accidentally" forgot railcard, guard issues standard price ticket.

Can you get a refund on the "unused" railcard discounted ticket from any booking office? Is it just a case of irrespective of TOC who owns TVM or runs booking office as long as the ticket hasn't been bought on line or is a TOD you can take it to any booking office you fill out a form and once paperwork is all done you will be sent a refund?

Will you still be charged a £10 admin fee or is this just a fee to change tickets?

From any office regardless of where it was bought, but ideally one of the same TOC. As above, if it is not an office of the same TOC, they will simply pass it on. £10 admin fee applies.
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The service is the administration of processing the refund.

But you are not paying for the service, it is just covering the costs.

 

[maniacmartin]

But you are not paying for the service, it is just covering the costs.

Those two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive

 

[hairyhandedfool]

They are not necessarily the same either.

Edit: Providing a service implies that there is something in it for the provider, covering the costs does not imply that.

 

[PermitToTravel]

If it genuinely costs them £10 to process a refund then I can start to see why the railways need so much subsidy...

 

[CyrusWuff]

When a refund is made, the original sale is effectively reversed through the revenue allocation system, so the company paying the refund gets a credit for the full amount refunded and the companies entitled to a share of the purchase price get their share deducted.

If memory serves, this reversal is carried out centrally, and the TOCs are charged for it, which is where part of the admin fee goes.

 

[Swimo]

Thank you everyone for the info, I went to one of the TOC's ticket offices and they refunded it there and then to my card (obviously takes a few working days)! They waived the £10 fee too, which I thought was nice!

One weird thing though, when doing the refund I put the card in the machine and entered my pin and it declined? But for a refund?! I don't understand how a refund can decline but oh well! He typed the card number in and processed it that way!

 

[sarahj]

I do wonder about the instant refund. There have been a few cases, including a rather large fraud, where someone has been abusing this. I wont say in an open forum what they were doing, but just say they managed to get a few thousand out of it.

 

[reb0118]

I do wonder about the instant refund. There have been a few cases, including a rather large fraud, where someone has been abusing this. I wont say in an open forum what they were doing, but just say they managed to get a few thousand out of it.

Nothing to do with a Welshman and first class all line rail rovers perchance?

 

[sarahj]

Nothing to do with a Welshman and first class all line rail rovers perchance?

Nope.

 

[Swimo]

I do wonder about the instant refund. There have been a few cases, including a rather large fraud, where someone has been abusing this. I wont say in an open forum what they were doing, but just say they managed to get a few thousand out of it.

I hope they were caught by the RP teams?!

Maybe they processed mine because it's only a small amount of £23 anyway? They did have to ask their supervisor first before refunding it as it wasn't issued at the station.

 

[Tetchytyke]

But you are not paying for the service, it is just covering the costs.

You are paying an administration fee for the service of administering your refund. Whether the fee covers the costs and whether the TOC makes money from the fee are kinda irrelevant.

I would be astounded if the processing of a refund costs exactly £10 in every single case.

 

[Haywain]

You are paying an administration fee for the service of administering your refund. Whether the fee covers the costs and whether the TOC makes money from the fee are kinda irrelevant.

I would be astounded if the processing of a refund costs exactly £10 in every single case.

I would also argue that you are not paying it, it is being deducted from your refund. People have been known to say that they are not prepared to pay the admin fee, but the other option is not to have a refund at all.

 

[trentside]

I would also argue that you are not paying it, it is being deducted from your refund. People have been known to say that they are not prepared to pay the admin fee, but the other option is not to have a refund at all.

I've had that discussion on a few occasions. Once or twice it involved having to explain that not wanting to "pay" the £10 admin fee would mean forfeiting over £50. They soon changed their minds, or asked for a form to try their luck with customer services.