'Ditch unreliable expensive trains' - Flybe

[cf111]

FlyBe have just dropped their Inverness-London City route, I am sure East Coast are delighted .

Their cheapest fare from Wick to Edinburgh, which I use once or twice a year, is £127.47 return. An advance on the train (Thurso-Edinburgh) is £20.70 with a railcard. I do avail myself of the Air Discount Scheme however, which takes 40% off the price of a flight.

The flight is obviously significantly quicker, taking about an hour compared with about 7 and a half on the train, and Wick airport is hassle free, but they certainly aren't that cheap. I generally only fly if I'm connecting on to another flight from Edinburgh.
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How well do planes do on trunk routes such as London to Scotland?

BA do well, although a lot of this will be long-haul feeder traffic, for example people flying Edinburgh-Heathrow-New York. There is a lot of business traffic though. Virgin's Little Red, which was operated by planes leased from Aer Lingus, did not do well and is being withdrawn very soon.

 

[al78]

I am thinking of applying for a job in Exeter and so have looked into the various public transport options from Exeter to Manchester (where most of my family is based). It turns out that the air fare is comparable with the cheapest advance fare available, at around £70 return, although the train gets me much closer to my destination than the plane. A walk-up rail ticket is nearer £120. What I find puzzling here is why advance tickets from Horsham to Manchester are significantly cheaper (best is £35 return*) when the distance and journey time is almost identical to the Exeter to Manchester journey, and the former involves going into and out of London, which I would have thought would be more expensive due to higher demand. Does anyone have any ideas why Exeter to Manchester is so much more expensive than Horsham to Manchester (or even London to Manchester).

*Even traveling on 23rd December and returning 2nd January managed to get two advances for £47 total.

 

[kermit]

In the interest of fairness, it was a Loganair plane that went off the runway in Stornoway.

Whilst you might be technically correct, the pictures tell a very different story!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-30655967

 

[route:oxford]

Personally, I often mix & match between flights and rail for convenience.

Travelling from Oxford to Stirling - neither is going to be perfect. Indeed, more often than not by the time all the door-to-door elements and just-in-case time is added to the journey - I might as well drive it at 5h45m.
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Whilst you might be technically correct, the pictures tell a very different story!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-30655967

Just try getting there on the train...

 

[najaB]

Whilst you might be technically correct, the pictures tell a very different story!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-30655967

I agree that for the average punter if it says Flybe on the outside of the plane then it's a Flybe plane, but the incident was brought up in the context of Flybe's reliability. This runway excursion counts against Loganair, rather than Flybe, as it was their plane with their crew.

 

[Bald Rick]

What I find puzzling here is why advance tickets from Horsham to Manchester are significantly cheaper (best is £35 return*) when the distance and journey time is almost identical to the Exeter to Manchester journey, and the former involves going into and out of London, which I would have thought would be more expensive due to higher demand. Does anyone have any ideas why Exeter to Manchester is so much more expensive than Horsham to Manchester (or even London to Manchester).

Supply and Demand economics.

Exeter - Manchester: 5 direct trains daily, I'm guessing at 5 car Voyagers. Otherwise a roughly hourly service, changing Birmingham, with Voyagers again.

London - Manchester: 3 direct trains per hour. 9 and 11 car Pendolini. Lots and lots of seats to sell, especially in the middle of the day.

 

[starrymarkb]

Cross Country are not cheap

Pondering a trip to Glasgow later in the year. Easyjet from Bristol is typically about £60 return. Door to door time is approx 4 hours.

Last time I looked at XC they wanted ~£180 for Advances!

 

[berwicksfinest]

I like to see them couple up a 57 at 37,000 feet when both engines fail !!!

 

[Chrism20]

Cross Country are not cheap

Pondering a trip to Glasgow later in the year. Easyjet from Bristol is typically about £60 return. Door to door time is approx 4 hours.

Last time I looked at XC they wanted ~£180 for Advances!

I done Edinburgh to Bristol last year and ended up going via London. First class to Kings Cross then First class from Paddington to Temple Meads cost me £73 total each way as opposed to nearly £200 standard.

It wasn't that bad to be honest. I left Edinburgh at 8am and was in Bristol by 5:15pm. I'd definitely do it again put it that way.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Whilst you might be technically correct, the pictures tell a very different story!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-30655967

It also had a BExxxx flight number.

If it looks like a BE and sounds like a BE...

 

[crewmeal]

You would think that FlyBe would work with other modes of transport. If Singapore Airlines can work with FGW and BA work with Heathrow Connect, why can't Flybe work with say National Express, Megabus or even another train company instead of against them?

 

[najaB]

It also had a BExxxx flight number.

If it looks like a BE and sounds like a BE...

From experience, when something goes wrong, Flybe tell you to speak to Loganair.

 

[berneyarms]

Whilst you might be technically correct, the pictures tell a very different story!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-30655967

It also had a BExxxx flight number.

If it looks like a BE and sounds like a BE...

That as may be, but that aircraft is most definitely a Loganair aircraft.

Loganair operate as a Flybe franchise, in the same way as Stobart Air operate the Aer Lingus Regional franchise. The aircraft all have Loganair markings on their nose.

I think you'll find that most people in the Highlands & Islands would know the airline as Loganair.

The airline previously operated as a British Airways franchise before BA withdrew their UK regional operations.

 

[185]

Am I the only one seeing the irony in a company with a record like flybe using the term 'ditch' in an advert describing their competitors?

A friend in the aviation industry mentioned that the BE stands for b******* engines :P

 

[Clip]

You would think that FlyBe would work with other modes of transport. If Singapore Airlines can work with FGW and BA work with Heathrow Connect, why can't Flybe work with say National Express, Megabus or even another train company instead of against them?

Im surprised they haven't tried to venture into the rail industry itself. Maybe working in partnership with another operator.

 

[tony_mac]

Roughly 600,000 passengers a month over the four main airports - Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen and Inverness.

CAA Stats

For comparison, about 170,000 a month made the Scotland to London journey by rail.
http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/statistics/j285663-10.htm

 

[Olaf]

An interesting article from the Western Morning News, but Haven't FlyBe been there before with their advertising stunts?

http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk...ays-punctual/story-25797271-detail/story.html


However with train fares on the rise we have yet to see airline fares fall as a result of the drop in fuel prices. Mind you as diesel has fallen have we seen rail fares drop?

Hasn't FlyBe just cut back the frequency of the London City service due to insufficient patronage? The article sounds more like an attempt to drum-up business.

 

[matchmaker]

Hasn't FlyBe just cut back the frequency of the London City service due to insufficient patronage? The article sounds more like an attempt to drum-up business.

If you want to travel FlyBe from Inverness you're stuffed as it ceases shortly due to poor demand!

 

[dgl]

Surely it should be FGW- Ditch unreliable, infrequent planes!

 

[dk1]

Surely it should be FGW- Ditch unreliable, infrequent planes!

You don't here of many train services or routes being changed let alone dropped. These airlines are so fickle.

 

[Oliver]

One quirk of Flybe's pricing on the Exeter - London route is that flying from Exeter is always cheaper than in the other direction. See http://www.flybe.com/ If you look at February / March, prices start at £14.66 from Exeter but never lower than £37.82 in the opposite direction. Clearly most passengers will be doing a round trip - any ideas why they skew the costs like that?

 

[paul1609]

One quirk of Flybe's pricing on the Exeter - London route is that flying from Exeter is always cheaper than in the other direction. See http://www.flybe.com/ If you look at February / March, prices start at £14.66 from Exeter but never lower than £37.82 in the opposite direction. Clearly most passengers will be doing a round trip - any ideas why they skew the costs like that?

Its probably in response to demand. I had period where I had to travel frequently to Manchester from Kent.
I quickly came to the conclusion the best way was to fly up and get the train back. The overall price was very competitive when compared to the Rail Anytime fare as the return trip was off peak.
If the meeting finished early I could just hop on the next train rather than waiting round the airport.

 

[Hornet]

One quirk of Flybe's pricing on the Exeter - London route is that flying from Exeter is always cheaper than in the other direction. See http://www.flybe.com/ If you look at February / March, prices start at £14.66 from Exeter but never lower than £37.82 in the opposite direction. Clearly most passengers will be doing a round trip - any ideas why they skew the costs like that?

Primarily it's down to pricing travellers out of busier airports. For example I am due to travel from Dublin to London in a couple of weeks. The I/B flight is €40 into Heathrow. The return from Heathrow is £51. I decided to fly back from Luton which cost me £24. Security costs and the costs to Airlines to Land/Take off at the busiest Airports has always been higher than Airports which have slack in their operations. (I have found that BHX, EMA, PIK and LTN have been the cheapest Airports to fly out of).

 

[itsjustmyjob]

One quirk of Flybe's pricing on the Exeter - London route is that flying from Exeter is always cheaper than in the other direction. See http://www.flybe.com/ If you look at February / March, prices start at £14.66 from Exeter but never lower than £37.82 in the opposite direction. Clearly most passengers will be doing a round trip - any ideas why they skew the costs like that?

Could it be down to the prices charged to land/take off from each airport?
The departure charge from London might always be higher than that charged from Exeter.

Just a thought. (oops, wish I'd read the previous post first!)

 

[Butts]

The cheapest "fees" at UK Airports are most of the Highlands and Islands ones.

You find this out by experiment on booking a rewards flight with Flybe (where you only pay the charges)

Places like Orkney, Islay, Shetland etc are all dirt cheap and have the added bonus of being being operated by Flybe's sidekick Loganair which has the added filip of being a "full service" airline.

 

[cuccir]

Of course, it depends what you're doing. I work in a university, so my travel is typically for conferences - half day to 3 day events, not necessarily in cities with airports. I also appreciate the higher chance of being able to work on the train. So real would almost always win for me.

But I can see that someone traveling between two large cities for one 30 minute meeting, for whom it is only the meeting which is important - well they'd look to fly. My farther works for the MOD and flies as he can't work on the train for security reasons. So, different markets for differing needs.