Govia 365 refurbishment

[chickenwings12]

Hi, I don't post much so sorry if this is in the wrong thread or if it's already been covered!

But what is happening with the 365 refurbishment with the new franchise? I read somewhere (just someones twitter not an official) that govia stopped the refurbishment and the only refurbed ones are going to be the ones already done, and the rest just left alone.

It seems a bit strange to me to stop a refurb mid-works but I guess if govia didn't want to keep paying for it... is it true? If not does anyone have the list of refurbished stock or when it will be completed?

Thanks!

 

[petersi]

Possibly because Govia will only be keeping approximately Half the units after 2018

(please do not take this the wrong way I have asked Mods to move this to the correct forum)

 

[David Goddard]

That's a shame- was hoping the fleet would stay together. Too many units to remain on GN after Thameslink but we would gratefully see them on the Western outer suburbans....

 

[Skimble19]

The trains are still being "refurbished" (if you can call it that!). Not sure where you read that but it's not correct.

 

[CockneySparrow]

Must be slow though as most are still in the FCC colours

 

[chickenwings12]

So the refurbishment is still going? Gah too much conflicting info, wish govia would just be upfront themselves about it :/

But that is a shame if they're only keeping half, they're the best trains in the gn fleet currently

 

[physics34]

So the refurbishment is still going? Gah too much conflicting info, wish govia would just be upfront themselves about it :/

But that is a shame if they're only keeping half, they're the best trains in the gn fleet currently

some 377s will be joining the fleet from 2018

 

[Skimble19]

So the refurbishment is still going? Gah too much conflicting info, wish govia would just be upfront themselves about it :/

But that is a shame if they're only keeping half, they're the best trains in the gn fleet currently

There is no conflicting info at all. GTR have no need to be upfront about it as nothing has changed.. Just seems you're paying a little bit too much attention to rumours you're hearing on Twitter..

As for the 365s future with GN; approximately half of them will still be needed post 2017, the rest are being displaced by 377/5s from TL - however as said this isn't until 2017 at the earliest so the "refurbishment" will of course include all 40 units.

Must be slow though as most are still in the FCC colours

Must admit from what I see pretty much every day I would say the majority of the fleet is now in GN livery, with a couple still in the old WAGN advertising livery and a limited amount still in FCC livery.

 

[chickenwings12]

There is no conflicting info at all. GTR have no need to be upfront about it as nothing has changed.. Just seems you're paying a little bit too much attention to rumours you're hearing on Twitter..

As for the 365s future with GN; approximately half of them will still be needed post 2017, the rest are being displaced by 377/5s from TL - however as said this isn't until 2017 at the earliest so the "refurbishment" will of course include all 40 units..

well, to be fair the conflicting info is also the fact that all i ever seem to see is the FCC liveried ones - always seems to be about 30% GTR and 70% fcc but guess that's water under the bridge now I know it is still going ahead. plus I'm guessing that the GTR ones usually only are used on express cambridge and kings lynn services so I may not see as many of them

although, are 377's definitely replacing 365's? thought it was just 317 and 321's they were replacing?

 

[Skimble19]

well, to be fair the conflicting info is also the fact that all i ever seem to see is the FCC liveried ones - always seems to be about 30% GTR and 70% fcc but guess that's water under the bridge now I know it is still going ahead. plus I'm guessing that the GTR ones usually only are used on express cambridge and kings lynn services so I may not see as many of them

although, are 377's definitely replacing 365's? thought it was just 317 and 321's they were replacing?

Depends what time of day you're out and about and where you are too. However to be entirely honest I'd say from what I see day to day it's about 70% GN 25% FCC and 5% WAGN at present. The 365s are used on all services throughout the day, they're not specifically for the cruisers as there is far too many of them just for that

As for what is replacing what: I'd guess it'll be a bit of a mix as all units are currently used on all services (bar trains that de-isolate at Royston, which are always 317s).

 

[user15681]

This doesn't really have anything to do with GoVia.

Eversholt (the lessor of the 365s), are paying Bombardier to do the works at Ilford as part of a 2 year contract. I don't have a full list of already done units to hand at the moment, and I haven't seen an update in a while, but it seems another may return freshly done this week.

 

[jopsuk]

Once the 700s are all in service, they'll be on all stopper and semi-fast services from Cambridge, and all off-peak services from Peterborough. The Cambridge Express services will both go to and from Kings Lynn and will, off peak, be 377/5. The 365s that are being kept will be used on peak time extras on both routes/to allow longer trains on the Cambridge route.

 

[jon0844]

Are these things getting the new PIS that was mentioned early on? First we were told the first train (or maybe two) didn't get all the updates, but the rest would - yet I've never been on a 365 that has had anything other than the original system that is very outdated by current standards (and way behind the current updated software on the 317s).

Weren't they also getting CCTV?

I would say that there's a lot of refreshed trains going about now. Not sure of a percentage though.

 

[387star]

They were meant to retro fit new fully accessible toilets and new information screens and call for aid etc to those already treated it seems nothing has happened yet

According to my records majority still in FCC livery

 

[jon0844]

Why would they be carrying on if these modifications aren't being carried out, unless they can be done later at somewhere like Hornsey?

It seems rather silly to be doing all that work at another location, then having to do more work later (and more expensive).

 

[user15681]

365517/519/520/522/523/524/525/528/533/537/538/540 should have all been to Ilford and returned.

With regards to passenger information, the updates needed to reach compliance were auto-announcement of next station, display of next station, as well as tactile signs and graphics/symbols on signs.

I couldn't comment on why it's continuing without the PRM-TSI mods, if that is the case, because I don't know. However, the contract was also for heavy maintenance, not just the mods. It's probably considered worthwhile sending them away just for the heavy maintenance alone, even if the PRM mods are delayed for some reason.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Are they also getting new Hiatchi traction motors as part of the refurb (what all the Networkers now have - i personally miss the sounds of the old traction motors)?

 

[Domh245]

No. Only the 465/0 and 465/1 have the Hitachi IGBT. The /2, /9, 466, and 365 still have the old GTO inverters.

 

[158722]

365517/519/520/522/523/524/525/528/533/537/538/540 should have all been to Ilford and returned.

With regards to passenger information, the updates needed to reach compliance were auto-announcement of next station, display of next station, as well as tactile signs and graphics/symbols on signs.

I couldn't comment on why it's continuing without the PRM-TSI mods, if that is the case, because I don't know. However, the contract was also for heavy maintenance, not just the mods. It's probably considered worthwhile sending them away just for the heavy maintenance alone, even if the PRM mods are delayed for some reason.

Perhaps me just being suspicious, but none of the first 16 units touched so far. Coincidence as they are not due attention yet/not run enough miles or an indication that these won't be staying with TSGN?

 

[user15681]

Sorry to drag this up again!

Press release on Thameslink website from earlier today...

Improved accessibility for passengers on Great Northern as part of £31m train upgrade

Date: 24 Feb 2015

Great Northern’s trains are being upgraded to the tune of £31 million to give passengers in wheelchairs and others with restricted mobility improved access to the Peterborough – King’s Cross, King’s Lynn and Cambridge routes. The first train to feature wheelchair-friendly toilets and wheelchair spaces (complete with companion seats), started running in service today (Tuesday 24 February)


The Class 365 fleet has been undergoing an intense programme since spring 2013; 40 trains in total will go through the refurbishment process, due to be completed in autumn 2016. The refreshed trains will feature:

• Wheelchair-friendly toilets
• Wheelchair spaces
• New sounders for both the opening and closing of doors
• Priority seats
• Refreshed interior
• New external livery
• LED lighting

The refurbishment is costing just over £31million and is being paid for and managed by Eversholt Rail. The work is being carried out by Bombardier Transportation at their depot in Ilford.

Keith Jipps, Great Northern’s Passenger Service Director, said:

“This is great news for Great Northern passengers with restricted mobility. The new wheelchair accessible toilets are fresh and modern and the newly widened wheelchair areas and priority seats will make journeys easier and more comfortable.

“The brightly lit, refreshed interior means our passengers can enjoy a more comfortable and modern travelling environment, giving our passengers better value for money.

“With new footbridges with lifts at stations like Letchworth Garden City, Huntingdon and Hatfield, we hope to deliver a real improvement for passengers.”

Ends

Notes to editors

Bombarider is carrying out the C6X overhaul and refurbishment programme on the entire Class 365 fleet, and Eversholt Rail is funding the work. The programme began in Spring 2013 and will be completed for autumn 2016.

The improvements are being implemented to comply with the Technical Specification for Interoperability for Persons with Reduced Mobility (PRM TSI), which is a European standard the UK Government has committed all train operating companies (TOCs) to comply with by 2020.

Believe 365537 is the first (and currently only) one with the full mods mentioned above by GTR, having returned to Hornsey on 24/01/2015 and out in service from today (24/02/2015) with the mods in use. Of course, I hadn't thought at the time, but this is why the program seemed to go 'quiet', because the first unit always takes a while (it took around 3 months), and may be where the suggestions came that the program had been stopped.

 

[Skimble19]

Having travelled on the fully refurbished unit I was even less impressed than I was with the part refreshed units.

I would say around 10 seats have been lost as a result of this work, as well as 3 of the bays of 3/4 seats and tables. He door opening and closing sounds certainly won't be ignored - they're EXTREMELY loud.

The only positive is the new toilet does look rather smart.. It's just a shame they're ruining the rest of what was a very good train.


Also, the unit was in service before today as I travelled on it a few days ago.

 

[user15681]

Having travelled on the fully refurbished unit I was even less impressed than I was with the part refreshed units.

I would say around 10 seats have been lost as a result of this work, as well as 3 of the bays of 3/4 seats and tables. He door opening and closing sounds certainly won't be ignored - they're EXTREMELY loud.

The only positive is the new toilet does look rather smart.. It's just a shame they're ruining the rest of what was a very good train.


Also, the unit was in service before today as I travelled on it a few days ago.

On your last point, I thought it had been out since 17/02/2015, but the press release being posted and mentioning today threw me so I just went with it. Mind, the release initially said "[the unit] entered service today, Wednesday 12th March"...

 

[jon0844]

No mention of new screens/software or CCTV. If these are the fully done trains, was that ditched in the end? Or just not mentioned?

 

[JaJaWa]

No mention of new screens/software or CCTV. If these are the fully done trains, was that ditched in the end? Or just not mentioned?

I noticed that too and asked them about it on Twitter. I wonder if they'll be able to find out - https://twitter.com/JaJaWa/status/570438375817252864.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

He door opening and closing sounds certainly won't be ignored - they're EXTREMELY loud.

Are they anything like the ones on the 444s, 450s (and probably also on the 350s)?

 

[gazthomas]

Shame they're not getting air-con, otherwise I think they're great units.

 

[Skimble19]

Are they anything like the ones on the 444s, 450s (and probably also on the 350s)?

I'll be entirely honest - I can't remember what the Desiro ones sound like. But they're definitely nothing like the ones on Electrostars or the 395s if that helps?

On your last point, I thought it had been out since 17/02/2015, but the press release being posted and mentioning today threw me so I just went with it. Mind, the release initially said "[the unit] entered service today, Wednesday 12th March"...

Ahh, yes.. I believe that it did actually come out around that point but there was an "issue" with it so it had a nice stay at Hornsey..

No mention of new screens/software or CCTV. If these are the fully done trains, was that ditched in the end? Or just not mentioned?

I was only on board for about 10 mins but certainly didn't notice any new CIS or audio announcements and didn't spot any CCTV.. Could have missed the CCTV but highly doubt I would have missed the CIS/PA being changed.

 

[387star]

Interesting thanks

I presume the FGW 166 work is ongoing as well?

Meanwhile a FGW 150 due out soon with a new toilet module

Class 365: http://www.railmagazine.com/news/fl...ility-for-passengers-on-great-northern-trains

 

[Aictos]

What they ought to have done is have flip down seats in the area opposite the disable toilet as theres not much room between the seats and said toilet.

That said, it now instructs you to flush before and after use in order to save water, how it does that I be interested to know....

 

[Hadders]

Shame they're not getting air-con, otherwise I think they're great units.

It is quite nice on a hot day to have all the windows open as you go down the ECML at 100mph. Wind in the hair moment. I do miss that on the sterile trains with air con.

I do agree that the modifications we are seeing to the 365's this time round are generally a backwards step and certainly 'cheapen' the loom and feel of an otherwise excellent train.

I suspect we're being softened up for the introduction of the 700's.