Why are all trains yellow at the front?

[Joshrowlands]

Hi guys Its recently come to my attention that all trains in the UK no matter what make, model, type, or TOC seem to be like yellow at the front is this just coinsidental or is there some reason for this?

There's some TOC's that have no yellow in their colour scheme but the front of their trains are yellow and there's some who have their colour at the front but still have yellow I'm really confused?

 

[James Wake]

I believe that it is so they can be seen from a distance by people working near the track is one reason.

 

[gordonthemoron]

apart from steam trains

 

[59CosG95]

Safety near or at level crossings is another, particularly at night and/or with foot crossings. Take a Northern 150 for example-the high visibility of the yellow front is much brighter than the navy/purple livery it normally wears.

Some companies have tried to do away with the panels though: Heathrow Express tried to avoid getting yellow panels on the 332s (and failed). GBRf tried to substitute orange (as part of its livery) for the yellow panels (and failed). When the 150/2s were introduced, the original plan was to have the panel solely on the inter-unit gangway. (Again, this failed). However, it seems to have made a resurgence with ScotRail's new AT200 fleet.

 

[Joshrowlands]

Safety near or at level crossings is another, particularly at night and/or with foot crossings. Take a Northern 150 for example-the high visibility of the yellow front is much brighter than the navy/purple livery it normally wears.

Some companies have tried to do away with the panels though: Heathrow Express tried to avoid getting yellow panels on the 332s (and failed). GBRf tried to substitute orange (as part of its livery) for the yellow panels (and failed). When the 150/2s were introduced, the original plan was to have the panel solely on the inter-unit gangway. (Again, this failed). However, it seems to have made a resurgence with ScotRail's new AT200 fleet.

Yeah safety was the only reason I could think of, thanks for clearing it up though guys

 

[Murph]

It's something that was originally chosen by BR to make the new quiet diesels and electrics visible from a distance. Yellow stands out nicely against both the rural and urban environment. These days, it's a formal safety requirement, a precisely specified colour of minimum uninterrupted area, by the Railway Group Standards.

TOCs, FOCs, etc, can freely incorporate it into their livery (or not), as long as it meets the minimums specified.

If memory serves, it was first introduced when locos were BR Brunswick Green, so their livery actually acted as camouflage in rural settings.

 

[TheEdge]

apart from steam trains

Which I believe have grandfather rights and don't need it.

Although I'm sure there was some red tape issues when trying to get certification for Tornado and it turned out it technically didn't have said grandfather rights so had to get an exception to get away with not having a yellow front.

 

[Murph]

Some companies have tried to do away with the panels though: Heathrow Express tried to avoid getting yellow panels on the 332s (and failed). GBRf tried to substitute orange (as part of its livery) for the yellow panels (and failed). When the 150/2s were introduced, the original plan was to have the panel solely on the inter-unit gangway. (Again, this failed). However, it seems to have made a resurgence with ScotRail's new AT200 fleet.

Frankly, I'd say it's bordering on insanity for any TOC to try to get a significant new derogation from the standard. That would seem to just encourage both criminal and civil consequences from any subsequent injury or fatality. "So, Mr TOC-Manager, why exactly did you choose to make your trains less visible than the normal safety standard?"

 

[DaiGog]

It's a strange one!

The amount of yellow applied varies, but is subject to a minimum coverage (x%) of the end of the loco/DVT. Back in the 80s when the class 59s were delivered, they had (IIRC) no yellow warning panel for a while, then later a very small one - but either way, compared with other rolling stock, the yellow area was minimal. Why were these locos treated differently to anything else?

On today's railway, taking TPE's fleet as an example, the yellow panel is on the small side on the 170s/185s, yet the unit numbers and fleet name / logo are on the yellow, which will affect the % figure of yellow area.

In the modern era where just about everything, if not actually everything, has high-intensity LED headlights, do we really need yellow panels any more? Even the BR era headlights (those retro-fitted to main line locos in the 80s, in addition to their headcode lights) were visible when a train came into view long before the yellow panel was. Yes, lights can fail, but even so.

We are one of very few countries to still insist on having yellow panels, so does that mean more people are mown down by trains in the likes of Germany because they do not have yellow panels (but do have the same powerful LED lights)?

And as someone said above, steam engines are exempt. Why? Negligible risk I assume, as they are very few and far between.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Yet the Yeoman Class 59s got away with not much more than just yellow buffer beams. Haven't seen one in a long time, is it still the case?

 

[Loki]

We are one of very few countries to still insist on having yellow panels, so does that mean more people are mown down by trains in the likes of Germany because they do not have yellow panels (but do have the same powerful LED lights)?

If there are more people killed it is because their rail tracks are not always segregated with some hoardings. The yellow panel is useless nowadays imo.

 

[gordonthemoron]

don't (foreign) locos in Netherlands have to have a white square on the front/back?

 

[starrymarkb]

And the French seem to require black and yellow stripes on locomotives (ignored by SNCF, rigorously enforced for open access operators ie EWS's EuroCargoRail)

 

[Buttsy]

The yellow panel was to help trackworkers see trains coming as diesels and particularly electrics were much quiter than steam. The yellow panels started in the 60s, going onto full yellow ends in the rail blue era. In the 80s, it was probably determined that with headlights trains become more visible, the overall yellow end was less important, though still a safety device.

In today's modern railway, fractured as it is, there is no one body to determine the usefulness and fight for the removal of yellow ends (if relevant) as there possibly would have been under a unified system.

 

[edwin_m]

Yet the Yeoman Class 59s got away with not much more than just yellow buffer beams. Haven't seen one in a long time, is it still the case?

There seemed to be a view in the mid-80s that the high visibility headlight made it unnecessary to have a yellow end. Current standards make clear that is not the case today.

 

[sprinterguy]

Yet the Yeoman Class 59s got away with not much more than just yellow buffer beams. Haven't seen one in a long time, is it still the case?

It’s also been perpetuated on all the liveries that have been worn by the 59/0 and 59/1 sub-classes since: Foster Yeoman (both UK versions), ARC, Hanson, Mendip Rail and Aggregate Industries. All just have the yellow bufferbeam.

The relevant legislation regarding yellow ends can be found under the "Rolling Stock" section of the following page as document GM/RT2483:
http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Railway_Group_Standards

The pertinent section of which is as follows:

Except as set out in C1.3 and C1.4 of this standard and except where the vehicle has an end gangway, there shall be a minimum forward facing continuous area of yellow surface of 1 m² with a minimum dimension of 0.6 m when viewed, at a large distance, head on from in front of the vehicle.

It shall be permissible to divide the yellow surface by elements of an end gangway if necessary. Each section of a divided yellow surface shall have a substantially uninterrupted yellow area not less than 0.4 m², with a minimum dimension of 0.6 m.

 

[Murph]

It's a strange one!

The amount of yellow applied varies, but is subject to a minimum coverage (x%) of the end of the loco/DVT. Back in the 80s when the class 59s were delivered, they had (IIRC) no yellow warning panel for a while, then later a very small one - but either way, compared with other rolling stock, the yellow area was minimal. Why were these locos treated differently to anything else?

On today's railway, taking TPE's fleet as an example, the yellow panel is on the small side on the 170s/185s, yet the unit numbers and fleet name / logo are on the yellow, which will affect the % figure of yellow area.

In the modern era where just about everything, if not actually everything, has high-intensity LED headlights, do we really need yellow panels any more? Even the BR era headlights (those retro-fitted to main line locos in the 80s, in addition to their headcode lights) were visible when a train came into view long before the yellow panel was. Yes, lights can fail, but even so.

We are one of very few countries to still insist on having yellow panels, so does that mean more people are mown down by trains in the likes of Germany because they do not have yellow panels (but do have the same powerful LED lights)?

And as someone said above, steam engines are exempt. Why? Negligible risk I assume, as they are very few and far between.

Here's the current official spec:

RGS GM/RT2483

C1.2.2 Area of yellow
Except as set out in C1.3 and C1.4 of this standard and except where the vehicle has an end gangway, there shall be a minimum forward facing continuous area of yellow surface of 1 m2 with a minimum dimension of 0.6 m when viewed, at a large distance, head on from in front of the vehicle. It shall be permissible to divide the yellow surface by elements of an end gangway if necessary. Each section of a divided yellow surface shall have a substantially uninterrupted yellow area not less than 0.4 m2, with a minimum dimension of 0.6 m.
Where the minimum required area or dimension exceeds that which is available on the front-end of the leading vehicle of the train, the yellow warning panel shall be provided over the maximum practicable area (not including active optical surfaces, for example windscreen and head, marker and tail-lamps).
Appendix 6 section 6.1 sets out guidance on achieving compliance with this section.

It would be a very brave safety standards official that chose to retire the warning yellow, in my opinion. High intensity headlights certainly will help, but they are also directional, so their performance is significantly reduced if you've got a train coming around a significant curve. Would you want to be the safety official that tried to justify the lack of yellow to a coroner or judge?

 

[talltim]

TOCs, FOCs, etc, can freely incorporate it into their livery (or not), as long as it meets the minimums specified.

I'm not certain about that. I'm sure I've read that Network Rail's yellow isn't quite the same as warning yellow because it is not allowed to be used as a livery colour. This might be wrong and might just be that someone at NR specified a different yellow without thinking about it. The other thing that makes me query this is that warning panels seem to vary in colour slightly, and not just with age.

With regards to the choice of yellow, this section from the WIki article on European ambulance standards is interesting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CEN_1789#Passive_warning_systems

 

[sprinterguy]

I'm not certain about that. I'm sure I've read that Network Rail's yellow isn't quite the same as warning yellow because it is not allowed to be used as a livery colour. This might be wrong and might just be that someone at NR specified a different yellow without thinking about it. The other thing that makes me query this is that warning panels seem to vary in colour slightly, and not just with age.

Looking at Network Rail test trains, it is clear that NR are using two distinct shades of yellow (not just a result of fading, as the two shades are uniform amongst vehicles wearing them) for their rolling stock. One of these is very close, if not identical, to warning yellow while the other is somewhat lighter.

 

[Murph]

I'm not certain about that. I'm sure I've read that Network Rail's yellow isn't quite the same as warning yellow because it is not allowed to be used as a livery colour. This might be wrong and might just be that someone at NR specified a different yellow without thinking about it. The other thing that makes me query this is that warning panels seem to vary in colour slightly, and not just with age.

So, are you trying to say that the The Flying Banana is insufficiently yellow?

Seriously though, I wouldn't be surprised if NR got the nod of approval even if they technically are not quite the precise colour. Their trains certainly meet the spirit of the requirements, even if they don't meet the letter of them.

Nothing in the visibility standard says that you can't use warning yellow as part of the livery, as far as I can see. Think about it, there's no such thing as "too visible".

 

[Taunton]

Further exceptions to yellow are :

London Underground trains operating over Network Rail tracks.

Diesel shunting locomotives, which have always had yellow/black diagonal striping instead.

 

[talltim]

A bit of googling confirms what I thought and what Sprinterguy says.
NR have used two different yellows over the years, Golden Yellow and Warning Panel Yellow. On vehicles in Golden Yellow, Warning Panel yellow is still used for the ends
The difference can be seen on this pic of a 97 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Briti...le:Talsarnau_railway_station_MMB_07_97303.jpg
I'm not sure which was the earlier and which the later livery.
Edit: Found this from http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=12541.0

Network Rail use a yellow paint to "BS381C" 356. 356 is Golden Yellow, often called Engineering Yellow.

Nearest RAL codes are 1003 Signal Yellow and 1023 Traffic Yellow

Railway Group Standard
GM/RT2483
C1.2.1 The front-end colour
The colour shall be yellow as specified by any of the following paint colours:
a) RAL 1003, RAL 1004, RAL 1018, RAL 1021, or RAL1023 from the RAL
Classic Colour Collection
b) BS 4800 Item 08E51
c) BR81 Item 202
d) NCS (Natural colour system) target value 1080-Y 10-R or 1475-Y 11R
e) EC 222.69.79 in the Eurocolour table.
Conformance shall be assessed by confirmation that the particular colour has
been applied using the manufacturers specification and applied using the
manufacturers approved process. No measurement of the colour when applied
to the vehicle is necessary.

 

[sprinterguy]

I'm not sure which was the earlier and which the later livery.
Edit: Found this from http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=12541.0

I think that the warning panel yellow livery was the earlier scheme, and the golden yellow variant is more recent. I’m reasonably sure that I remember the New Measurement Train was outshopped in the darker, warning yellow, scheme originally, and NRs’ 31s carry the darker scheme compared to the more recently converted class 97/3s.

 

[swt_passenger]

When you look at a relatively recent EMU like an SWT Desiro, it's pretty obvious they are using exactly the same yellow for the warning panel requirement and the other decorative features of the overall livery.

As others have pointed out the only requirement is the 1 sq metre forward facing patch - the rest (in this case the colour that wraps round the cab sides) is 'voluntary' and purely decorative.

 

[edwin_m]

Remember the original HST livery where the yellow went most of the way down the side of the power car? I imagine the first class yellow stripes were the same colour too.

It would be very difficult to make a case for getting rid of the yellow under UK safety legislation. As yellow paint doesn't cost any more than any other colour, yellow ends are considered a reasonable safety measure and unless someone proves they are actually less safe, it would be a brave manager who challenged this standard.

However it would probably be forbidden under European law to require trains to have yellow ends when running on high speed lines in the UK! This is because they are not required by the TSI standards, so any national requirement counts as anti-competitive unless it can be shown to be necessary on safety grounds. Because of the different safety practices on high speed lines it is unlikely anyone would be able to argue this.

 

[contrex]

The yellow panels started in the 60s, going onto full yellow ends in he rail blue era.

Full yellow ends came in before all stock had been repainted out of the old BR liveries and into the rail blue era colours. I remember seeing green SR emus with full yellow ends in the mid 1960s.

 

[Murph]

However it would probably be forbidden under European law to require trains to have yellow ends when running on high speed lines in the UK! This is because they are not required by the TSI standards, so any national requirement counts as anti-competitive unless it can be shown to be necessary on safety grounds. Because of the different safety practices on high speed lines it is unlikely anyone would be able to argue this.

I imagine that you're probably correct about that. On the other hand, it might make sense for UK HS fleets to have the yellow, in case they need to stray off the HS lines for any reason (e.g. diversions, depots, deliveries, etc, and obviously subject to gauge clearance).

 

[Mag_seven]

Further exceptions to yellow are :

London Underground trains operating over Network Rail tracks.

Ergo track workers working on such tracks must be working in a "less safe" environment than those who are working on other tracks where LUL trains do not operate.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

There's a web site somewhere )can't remember the name) but it has various liveries with the yellow photoshoped out and some of them look weird without the yellow ends

 

[Murph]

Ergo track workers working on such tracks must be working in a "less safe" environment than those who are working on other tracks where LUL trains do not operate.

LUL have a similar safety requirement, just they use red instead of yellow.