Petition to commission new study into re-opening Matlock to Buxton

[tocguard]

Some of you may already be aware that there is a petition for a new study to be carried out to look into the re-opening of the former midland mainline. It has come about as it is a decade since the last feasibility study was carried out, which many people felt at the time was inaccurate and contradictory. But, here we are 10 years later in a very different situation. Looking at official ORR statistics, passenger growth on the Derwent Valley Line stations has more more than doubled in most cases in that time. Surely this now has a different bearing on the viability. Couple that with the benefit Bakewell would receive by having a station again, and tourism to surrounding areas, along with a potential diversionary route, options for freight etc. Even if single line could be achieved to Bakewell, with a passing loop somewhere, surely we'd be getting somewhere.

The petition has been open for 10 months and has gained over 2000 signatures. If you haven't already done so, could you consider signing it and then sharing it on any railway related groups you think it may be of interest to the members. It takes 2 minutes and you can sign in to the website via your facebook login if you have one (it doesn't send you messages or anything). Alternatively you can just sign it by filling in a few details.

Thanks for your support!


https://www.change.org/p/derbyshire...lway-line-between-matlock-bakewell-and-buxton

 

[northwichcat]

And even if Independent Consultants come up with a Benefit:Cost ratio of 5:1, what's the likelihood Network Rail will not consider it?

 

[Tomnick]

It's not Network Rail's decision, is it?

I'm not sure that a single line to Bakewell, on its own, would be justified. My understanding is that previous studies have considered either the demand for local travel generated along the route (and concluded that it'd be insufficient) or the benefits of a route to take through traffic away from other congested areas (and concluded that there wasn't a strong enough case) - but has any study considered the combination of the two? I think that's the best way forward.

 

[northwichcat]

It's not Network Rail's decision, is it?

Unless funding is found via other means (as with Todmorden Curve and Borderlands), Network Rail will make the decision and will only take a look at it if the BCR is greater than 2.5:1 - it doesn't mean they'll implement it, they haven't got further than taking a look at numerous proposals where the BCR is great enough. For Borderlands the BCR would be too low for Network Rail to have even considered had external funding not been secured.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Just added my name!

 

[HowardGWR]

Just added my name!

I too. It would be helpful if our Mancunian contingent could help, as through services on that route would be helpful to them.

 

[Ash Bridge]

I too. It would be helpful if our Mancunian contingent could help, as through services on that route would be helpful to them.

Indeed they would!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

How well is Bakewell served by bus routes and what large towns are connected by bus to it?

 

[Ash Bridge]

How well is Bakewell served by bus routes and what large towns are connected by bus to it?

The Derby to Manchester Trans Peak service serving Matlock, Bakewell, Buxton, Stockport appears to operate an hourly service in both directions.

 

[trickyvegas]

The Derby to Manchester Trans Peak service serving Matlock, Bakewell, Buxton, Stockport appears to operate an hourly service in both directions.

I's a total of 5 services per day from Manchester - first at 09.15 and last at 19.05 according to the timetable I found.

 

[northwichcat]

I's a total of 5 services per day from Manchester - first at 09.15 and last at 19.05 according to the timetable I found.

Hourly only applies to Buxton-Matlock-Derby: http://www.highpeakbuses.com/Documents/TP - Nottingham - Manchester.pdf

 

[trickyvegas]

Hourly only applies to Buxton-Matlock-Derby: http://www.highpeakbuses.com/Documents/TP - Nottingham - Manchester.pdf

If I recall rightly, you cannot use a Greater Manchester Wayfarer on Transpeak services so I can imagine trying to combine rail to Buxton with an onwards TP service to Matlock, would be quite expensive.

 

[Mikey C]

Having been to both Bakewell and Buxton this year, I wonder how much revenue this would actually bring, seeing that a lot of the visitors would probably still drive or come in on coach tours anyway.
The disused railway line is also a very popular walk now

 

[tocguard]

There are hourly bus services to/from:
Buxton
Sheffield
Chesterfield
Matlock, Belper, Derby

Problem is reliability/punctuality on longer distance routes especially during the summer and weekends. The roads are horrendous with the influx of tourists. Rail would offer an alternative for many people and relieve congestion on the roads as well as parking issues.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

It was looked at by ATOC in "Connecting Communities" - admittedly broadly - but not much of a real business case - as admittedly transfer journeys are easier ( e.g via Dore Curve subject to a "direct" service East Midlands to Manchester via Hope Valley) - no really obvious freight flows.

Environmental issues would be astounding - however , good luck. (And I do mean that)

 

[MidlandMainlie]

Signed. Hopefully a proper study will be able to identify a good enough business case for reopening a line linking 3 large cities in the East Midlands to the North West.

If this line was in Scotland it would have been reopened ages ago.

 

[yorksrob]

Signed.

Should have been reinstated years ago.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Having been to both Bakewell and Buxton this year, I wonder how much revenue this would actually bring, seeing that a lot of the visitors would probably still drive or come in on coach tours anyway.
The disused railway line is also a very popular walk now

Living in Stockport we do like to visit Buxton its a very pleasant town. I own a decent car but we always take the train, it's an enjoyable relaxing journey (even more so if it's a 156) no parking problems when you arrive, plus if having a meal I can enjoy a glass or two, then afterwards back on the train sit back and enjoy the views on the way home, perfect! Bakewell and Matlock I would love to do also, but having done it in the past by car the journey can be horrific trying to pass through places like Bakewell, and this is before trying to find a parking spot when finally arriving. Did you go in the summer?

There are hourly bus services to/from:
Buxton
Sheffield
Chesterfield
Matlock, Belper, Derby

Problem is reliability/punctuality on longer distance routes especially during the summer and weekends. The roads are horrendous with the influx of tourists. Rail would offer an alternative for many people and relieve congestion on the roads as well as parking issues.

Exactly! I would imagine there are a lot more people ,like myself, who would be encouraged to visit if they knew they could travel there in a safe, relaxed and fast stress free way, which neither the bus or car offer in my opinion.

Signed.

Should have been reinstated years ago.

Absolutely agreed!

 

[SqUaShIe P]

Ive signed it too.

If the line was to be re-opened, would it allow freight trains from the Peak Forest to the South to take a more direct route? (...rather than running via Grindleford, Totley tunnel and Chesterfield?) (My knowledge of Derbyshire isnt too good)

 

[Ash Bridge]

Ive signed it too.

If the line was to be re-opened, would it allow freight trains from the Peak Forest to the South to take a more direct route? (...rather than running via Grindleford, Totley tunnel and Chesterfield?) (My knowledge of Derbyshire isnt too good)

Yes would have thought so as it was all part of the same route, Ambergate-Chinley.

 

[Andrewlong]

It's very admirable but 2000 signatures is not a huge amount. That was my first reaction.

 

[Mugby]

The Trans-Peak bus is only really useful for intermediate journeys, with end to end timings of over three hours it's a hopeless proposition for through journeys, not particularly cheap either.

With a good connection at Sheffield, Derby to Manchester can be achieved in half that time, even with the 'dead' mileage between Dore and Sheffield.

The fastest timing on the Peak Line I could find in BR days was around 1hr 20mins and that was using the slower route into Manchester via Tiviot Dale and Didsbury. I'm sure it could be trimmed to little over an hour now if re-instated.

I'm very happy to sign.

 

[LateThanNever]

The Trans-Peak bus is only really useful for intermediate journeys, with end to end timings of over three hours it's a hopeless proposition for through journeys, not particularly cheap either.

With a good connection at Sheffield, Derby to Manchester can be achieved in half that time, even with the 'dead' mileage between Dore and Sheffield.

The fastest timing on the Peak Line I could find in BR days was around 1hr 20mins and that was using the slower route into Manchester via Tiviot Dale and Didsbury. I'm sure it could be trimmed to little over an hour now if re-instated.

I'm very happy to sign.

Living in Stockport we do like to visit Buxton its a very pleasant town. I own a decent car but we always take the train, it's an enjoyable relaxing journey (even more so if it's a 156) no parking problems when you arrive, plus if having a meal I can enjoy a glass or two, then afterwards back on the train sit back and enjoy the views on the way home, perfect! Bakewell and Matlock I would love to do also, but having done it in the past by car the journey can be horrific trying to pass through places like Bakewell, and this is before trying to find a parking spot when finally arriving. Did you go in the summer?

Exactly! I would imagine there are a lot more people ,like myself, who would be encouraged to visit if they knew they could travel there in a safe, relaxed and fast stress free way, which neither the bus or car offer in my opinion.


Absolutely agreed!

The Trans-Peak bus is only really useful for intermediate journeys, with end to end timings of over three hours it's a hopeless proposition for through journeys, not particularly cheap either.

With a good connection at Sheffield, Derby to Manchester can be achieved in half that time, even with the 'dead' mileage between Dore and Sheffield.

The fastest timing on the Peak Line I could find in BR days was around 1hr 20mins and that was using the slower route into Manchester via Tiviot Dale and Didsbury. I'm sure it could be trimmed to little over an hour now if re-instated.

I'm very happy to sign.

Me too! The traffic, if you drive, is a definite disincentive to travel - as a tourist. But even on business, as a difficult road, there is lots of concentration and no looking at the views (which I'd love to do). If the train was still there you'd be much more likely to arrive more relaxed.
Should never have been closed in my opinion!

 

[thenorthern]

Would be nice if it reopened although I remember about 10 years ago there was a major study into reopening the line and I went to one of their events at the Assembly Rooms in Derby and the end decision was not to reopen it because of cost.

With Bakewell buses I know there is the 6.1 bus which runs from Bakewell to Matlock to Wirksworth and then southwards to Derby but I am not sure of any other buses north other than Transpeak.

 

[Starmill]

New direct trains to Derby and onwards to Nottingham should be quicker this way than reversing at Sheffield, and also this would leave more space on the South Transpennine route if all North West - East Midlands traffic went via Bakewell, which might mean less needs to be spend upgrading that line. Have Network Rail considered that? Add in the new markets (just Bakewell from what I can see) and new local journeys this should be very helpful. I doubt it will ever happen though. It shouldn't have been closed in the first place. Signed.

Also I think you can use Transpeak buses with Buxton Plusbus, no?

 

[CockneySparrow]

It's not Network Rail's decision, is it?

I'm not sure that a single line to Bakewell, on its own, would be justified. My understanding is that previous studies have considered either the demand for local travel generated along the route (and concluded that it'd be insufficient) or the benefits of a route to take through traffic away from other congested areas (and concluded that there wasn't a strong enough case) - but has any study considered the combination of the two? I think that's the best way forward.

Agreed it isn't down to Network Rail, Network Rail operates as a business if someone whether that be the government or a third party comes up with the silly amount of money NR will want you will find that NR will reinstate it

Like any other project NR will look to make a profit from the project

In terms of whether it will be cost effective the fact that there is only 6 buses on that route a day speaks volumes on demand for such a project to succeed, the fares for the line will be have to be competitive against the bus prices so that just leaves the ratio of a return on the investment

You look at other parts of the country like Kings Lynn to Hunstanton, Stagecoach send three buses an hour to Sunny Hunny, First Group send 2 buses an hour to Swaffham, Stagecoach also send 3 buses an hour to Spalding all services all year round and still there is no chance of these lines being reinstated, so with Buxton's 6 buses a day me thinks its a dead duck ??????

 

[Hyphen]

With Bakewell buses I know there is the 6.1 bus which runs from Bakewell to Matlock to Wirksworth and then southwards to Derby but I am not sure of any other buses north other than Transpeak.

The 6.1 is great if you're coming from Nottinghamshire, you can get a long way on a ZigZag ticket (cheaper with the MANGO cap currently :P) That said, it takes a very windy and long route towards Wirksworth from Belper, something the Transpeak does cut out if you're willing to pay the extra.

Last time I was there (a few years ago now, admittedly) Bakewell seemed quite well served by Hulleys of Baslow, operating routes to Matlock, Buxton, Chesterfield and Castleton. TM Travel also operate a near-hourly service to Sheffield.

 

[johnnychips]

From Haddon Hall to Chee Dale it is now the Monsal Trail. They have recently reopened and lit the tunnels on the line. As such it is extremely popular with walkers, cyclists and horse riders. No chance of reopening.

 

[Mvann]

Wasn't there a proposal for a rail park and ride from cromford into Matlock and bakewell once peak rail were up and running. It's successful with st Ives in Cornwall, so could be there as well
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

From Haddon Hall to Chee Dale it is now the Monsal Trail. They have recently reopened and lit the tunnels on the line. As such it is extremely popular with walkers, cyclists and horse riders. No chance of reopening.

Thought is had been proved that a single line could be built. Not sure weather the tunnels are single or twin bore.

 

[yorksrob]

Thought is had been proved that a single line could be built. Not sure weather the tunnels are single or twin bore.

It was all built double track as a mainline.

Personally, I think it needs to be double track to realise the inter-regional potential of the route though.