First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

[Busaholic]

Are you referring to the dereg livery and not the London & Country one with red added....which was also designed by Ray Stenning's stable

Probably the Stenning livery, without the red, obviously. Not helped by my partial colourblindness, but my first impression was definitely thinking of L&C.

 

[317 forever]

This was a surprise in Camborne this afternoon!

Solo 53503 (YJ06 YSK) in what looked like Buses of Somerset colours with First Kernow branding:-

If First Kernow are due to introduce this as livery as standard, it will mean Cornwall and The Buses of Somerset having new local liveries, but not First in the Plymouth area. Could this operation be excluded from this revamp, on the basis of it not surviving medium-term?

 

[83G/84D]

Solo 53504 was on the Mousehole service yesterday along with 53709.

 

[richw]

Solo 53504 was on the Mousehole service yesterday along with 53709.

I believe the Buses of Somerset/ Kernow livery is just a vinyl application.

There is a bus a Muller Road awaiting disposal that has been in Buses of Somerset, and they have ripped parts of the livery off to reveal the First livery underneath,

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I believe the Buses of Somerset/ Kernow livery is just a vinyl application.

There is a bus a Muller Road awaiting disposal that has been in Buses of Somerset, and they have ripped parts of the livery off to reveal the First livery underneath,

No, it's a proper paint job. The vehicle you refer (42833) was one of a few that received a "teaser" promo ad campaign that is a green vinyl applied that looks like you're ripping off the First livery to reveal the green beneath with the strap line of "this bus is going green" or something similar.

No East Lancs Darts did or will receive green livery.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If First Kernow are due to introduce this as livery as standard, it will mean Cornwall and The Buses of Somerset having new local liveries, but not First in the Plymouth area. Could this operation be excluded from this revamp, on the basis of it not surviving medium-term?

I'm sure you're not the only person to have thought that!!

 

[matt_splat]

are we sure the green is for cornwall because I have been told a solo from the batch that one of the recently acquired solos is going to end up in somerset doing work on the hinkley point contract

 

[Goldfish62]

are we sure the green is for cornwall because I have been told a solo from the batch that one of the recently acquired solos is going to end up in somerset doing work on the hinkley point contract

I've been told by an insider that it's definitely the new Kernow livery. Green was always the preferred choice of local management.

 

[DD12]

Glad you've enjoyed your trips to Cornwall - I chose to come and live here in 1988, with no previous connections. Making a living can be hard, as I know only too well, but walking my dog on the beach at Marazion about 5 o'clock, with a brilliant red sunset over Mousehole just across Mounts Bay, with St Michael's Mount seemingly within touching distance, as I did today makes it all worthwhile.

Really, we haven't fared too badly with bus cuts down here (yet!) and, as you say, you can still see lots of full-size buses squeezing down country lanes- luckily, most of them are already so battered a few more scrapes make no difference. Most of the drivers are good sorts, too.

Regarding making a good story out of it, our best two local detective writers of recent years, W.J. Burley and Janie Bolitho, both of whom I knew well enough to describe as friends, are now unfortunately dead, otherwise I might have tried to get one of them interested enough in the subject to concoct a story based on some of it, but at least one person would have to die and, happily, that has not happened in real life.

Thanks for your "in-tune" reply Busoholic.
Has anyone got any memories of 2014 in Cornwall that belong here?

(I should have added my sympathies and best wishes for all the people who have suffered as a result of the bus turmoil in 2014 - "Have a much better 2015 ! " )

 

[richw]

I've been told by an insider that it's definitely the new Kernow livery. Green was always the preferred choice of local management.

A contact of mine employed by First has said the green is a trial livery with the intent of Alex Carter that its his preference.

 

[Goldfish62]

A contact of mine employed by First has said the green is a trial livery with the intent of Alex Carter that its his preference.

Given that both our contacts are within First and both AC and local management prefer green then I don't think there'll be much debate over it.

 

[Busaholic]

This is probably a very stupid question but (a) I haven't been near Somerset in recent months and (b) colour images differ in photos I have seen, allied to partial colour-blindness, so : are these the same colours as Buses of Somerset, subtly different or completely different?

 

[LateThanNever]

This is probably a very stupid question but (a) I haven't been near Somerset in recent months and (b) colour images differ in photos I have seen, allied to partial colour-blindness, so : are these the same colours as Buses of Somerset, subtly different or completely different?

The very same minus the name! Link to pic here
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/i...and_liveries_for_First_buses_in_Somerset.html

 

[Penwithian]

Given that both our contacts are within First and both AC and local management prefer green then I don't think there'll be much debate over it.

It was a very colourful day in Penzance this morning. During my weekly shop I was lucky to get photos of three Optare Solos recently transferred including two resplendent in the winter sunshine in the new green trail? livery.
53709 in silver based livery was working the 11 town service; 53503 and 53504 both in the new green livery were working the 6 to Mousehole; 53805 was working the 1C to Paul and finally my return journey home to Pendeen on the 10 was provided by GWR liveried 42860.

 

[Busaholic]

It was a very colourful day in Penzance this morning. During my weekly shop I was lucky to get photos of three Optare Solos recently transferred including two resplendent in the winter sunshine in the new green trail? livery.
53709 in silver based livery was working the 11 town service; 53503 and 53504 both in the new green livery were working the 6 to Mousehole; 53805 was working the 1C to Paul and finally my return journey home to Pendeen on the 10 was provided by GWR liveried 42860.

And the sun shone.

 

[LAIRA]

48211 W821PFB visable at The Ride this morning. I am told 48210 is also here but I have not seen it.

 

[Busaholic]

A friend of mine, possessor of a concessionary bus pass issued by Cornwall Council, who uses it several times a week mostly around the Penzance area on First buses exclusively, was telling me today of a new edict apparently issued by First.

On some occasions , but by no means all, when he boards the bus and his card is produced to be read by the ticket machine preparatory to a ticket being issued the card is not recognised and the driver has to push a couple of buttons on the machine to complete the process. This morning, when that happened, he was told by the driver that his card was faulty and that he would have to pay the full fare. When he protested, the driver pressed the usual two buttons but told my friend (a) to apply for a replacement card and (b) all First drivers 'locally' had been instructed not to accept any card the machine could not read after 2nd February. To back this up, he produced an official instruction letter to this effect and showing that date.

My reaction to this development is as follows>

If on most occasions a card can be read by the machine, when it can't it is the fault of the machine and it is up to First to ensure their ticket machines are in good working order.
The fact that First have issued the letter suggests a widespread problem either with faulty passes or faulty machines, but in the light of the above it is more likely to be the latter.
Why have First not put anything on their website about this 'problem' or issued any press releases that I have seen?
If First press ahead with this edict they will, imo, undo any recent good publicity they've received locally and may well be acting illegally if anyone entitled is denied free travel.

I've told my friend I'd post on this forum first for reactions before advising him as to what to do next.

Over to you.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

A friend of mine, possessor of a concessionary bus pass issued by Cornwall Council, who uses it several times a week mostly around the Penzance area on First buses exclusively, was telling me today of a new edict apparently issued by First.

On some occasions , but by no means all, when he boards the bus and his card is produced to be read by the ticket machine preparatory to a ticket being issued the card is not recognised and the driver has to push a couple of buttons on the machine to complete the process. This morning, when that happened, he was told by the driver that his card was faulty and that he would have to pay the full fare. When he protested, the driver pressed the usual two buttons but told my friend (a) to apply for a replacement card and (b) all First drivers 'locally' had been instructed not to accept any card the machine could not read after 2nd February. To back this up, he produced an official instruction letter to this effect and showing that date.

My reaction to this development is as follows>

If on most occasions a card can be read by the machine, when it can't it is the fault of the machine and it is up to First to ensure their ticket machines are in good working order.
The fact that First have issued the letter suggests a widespread problem either with faulty passes or faulty machines, but in the light of the above it is more likely to be the latter.
Why have First not put anything on their website about this 'problem' or issued any press releases that I have seen?
If First press ahead with this edict they will, imo, undo any recent good publicity they've received locally and may well be acting illegally if anyone entitled is denied free travel.

I've told my friend I'd post on this forum first for reactions before advising him as to what to do next.

Over to you.

As he's in the Penzance area, why doesn't he pop into the travel office in the bus station and ask for clarity?

 

[Busaholic]

As he's in the Penzance area, why doesn't he pop into the travel office in the bus station and ask for clarity?

It's as much as you can do to get a timetable leaflet out of the woman often on duty there = she'll either claim to know nothing about it or, if you're very lucky, produce a poor photocopy of that edict but say it can't be taken away!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It's as much as you can do to get a timetable leaflet out of the woman often on duty there = she'll either claim to know nothing about it or, if you're very lucky, produce a poor photocopy of that edict but say it can't be taken away!

Not my experience last week- friendly and lots of nice glossy leaflets

 

[richw]

A friend of mine, possessor of a concessionary bus pass issued by Cornwall Council, who uses it several times a week mostly around the Penzance area on First buses exclusively, was telling me today of a new edict apparently issued by First.

On some occasions , but by no means all, when he boards the bus and his card is produced to be read by the ticket machine preparatory to a ticket being issued the card is not recognised and the driver has to push a couple of buttons on the machine to complete the process. This morning, when that happened, he was told by the driver that his card was faulty and that he would have to pay the full fare. When he protested, the driver pressed the usual two buttons but told my friend (a) to apply for a replacement card and (b) all First drivers 'locally' had been instructed not to accept any card the machine could not read after 2nd February. To back this up, he produced an official instruction letter to this effect and showing that date.

My reaction to this development is as follows>

If on most occasions a card can be read by the machine, when it can't it is the fault of the machine and it is up to First to ensure their ticket machines are in good working order.
The fact that First have issued the letter suggests a widespread problem either with faulty passes or faulty machines, but in the light of the above it is more likely to be the latter.
Why have First not put anything on their website about this 'problem' or issued any press releases that I have seen?
If First press ahead with this edict they will, imo, undo any recent good publicity they've received locally and may well be acting illegally if anyone entitled is denied free travel.

I've told my friend I'd post on this forum first for reactions before advising him as to what to do next.

Over to you.

Having worked with Smart Cards such as the concession pass they have quite a high rate of failures, and even more so now. They lose their contactless-ness if kept near other contactless cards, and even mobile phones.
More and more banks are issuing contactless debit cards which people are keeping in a wallet with other smart cards and the two together damage the contactless ability of one or other.

My bank within their communication state not to store the contactless debit card with other contactless cards.

I can almost guarantee the fault will lie within the card.

 

[Busaholic]

Having worked with Smart Cards such as the concession pass they have quite a high rate of failures, and even more so now. They lose their contactless-ness if kept near other contactless cards, and even mobile phones.
More and more banks are issuing contactless debit cards which people are keeping in a wallet with other smart cards and the two together damage the contactless ability of one or other.

My bank within their communication state not to store the contactless debit card with other contactless cards.

I can almost guarantee the fault will lie within the card.

My friend not only doesn't have a contactless debit card he doesn't possess a mobile phone. It still doesn't answer either why his card can be read on most occasions and not others. When I've had a card in the past where the chip has been degraded ir won't work anywhere. In any case, the law states he is entitled to free bus travel in England within the stipulated hours, he has been issued with the appropriate identity document and that should be the end of the matter. God forbid the bus industry starts the nitpickery over tickets that the railway industry has got into.

 

[richw]

First are correct in advising the pass is not acceptable after 2nd February if it wont scan. If it doesn't work the bus driver is to retain the pass.
Cant find local document but found media reports from elsewhere in the country

http://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/bus-...sty-February/story-25826612-detail/story.html

Travellers qualify for a concessionary bus pass then they have reached retirement age or if they are disabled.

From February 2, buses will have an improved card-reading system which will check whether concessionary bus passes are valid.


There are cases of passes being sold on or lost passes being used fraudulently, which the new system will help counter.

Wiltshire Council is holding an amnesty until February 2, for people to arrange for a new pass to be issued or return the old pass.


During this time if a pass is shown which is no longer valid, the driver will tell the passenger that the pass must not be used again but they will not be charged for that journey.

A pass is not valid if:




•The holder has informed the council the pass has been lost or stolen


•If it has previously been used fraudulently


•The holder is no longer entitled to concessionary travel


•If the council has written to the holder about the pass and the letter has been returned by Royal Mail


•If the council has written asking for up-to-date proof of eligibility or asking for the pass to be returned.


John Thomson, cabinet member for transport said: “For many people the concessionary bus pass offers a real lifeline but there are cases where it is used unscrupulously and we want to put a stop to this.


“We’re offering this amnesty period so if people discover their bus pass is not valid they can get in touch with us and we can replace it in good time.”

People who are told their pass is not valid should call Wiltshire Council on 0300 456 0100 or email concessionarybuspasses@wiltshire.gov.uk


If it is necessary for Wiltshire Council to issue a replacement bus pass there will be a £5 charge

And another
http://www.blackmorevale.co.uk/Peop...s-pass-valid/story-25826105-detail/story.html

 Comments (0)
It would be very upsetting if you went to get on a bus and discovered your pass was invalid - but this could be the case next month.

From 2nd February bus operators and councils are switching to ‘hotlisting’ - a term used when invalid concessionary passes are cancelled electronically.

In order to reduce the risk of fraud, bus passes will be hostlisted if:

The original pass has been reported either lost or stolen and been replaced with a new pass.

The relevant council wrote to a pass-holder and the letter was returned by the Royal Mail indicating the pass holder may have moved address.

The relevant council wrote to a pass-holder asking for up to date proof of eligibility or to return the pass.

Any invalid passes from Monday 2 February will be withdrawn and retained by the bus driver. If a pass is withdrawn and the driver is satisfied that the user is the person identified on the pass, the user will still be able to make that journey. However all future journeys will need to be paid for until either the correct pass is used or a new valid pass is obtained.

John McVey, lead officer on concessionary fares for Poole and Bournemouth, said: “We understand that sometimes concessionary bus passengers can inadvertently use more than one bus pass, therefore there will be an amnesty period until Sunday 1 February. I would advise all concessionary bus pass users to check they are using the correct pass between now and 2 February.”

During the amnesty period, users with invalid passes will be advised by their bus driver that the pass is no longer valid for travel. Users will still be able to continue with their journey but will then need to contact their local Council to arrange for a new pass to be issued as appropriate. The old pass which is no longer valid, will need to be returned

 

[robertclark125]

That's the same situation here in Fife. Last year, mum had to get a new bus pass after the reader on a Stagecoach Bus wouldn't read it. However, what possibly caused the fault was the fact that mum took it out of her purse so often. The solution was she got a wallet from Stagecoach, and put the card in there. All she does now is take the wallet out, and put the wallet with the card on the reader.

That then could be a cause in this case.

 

[richw]

Volvo B10BLE Wright S117JTP was at camborne today. Most recently of portsmouth.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That's the same situation here in Fife. Last year, mum had to get a new bus pass after the reader on a Stagecoach Bus wouldn't read it. However, what possibly caused the fault was the fact that mum took it out of her purse so often. The solution was she got a wallet from Stagecoach, and put the card in there. All she does now is take the wallet out, and put the wallet with the card on the reader.

That then could be a cause in this case.

There are many other objects that can cause a contact less card to stop working. Those I mentioned above arw a cross section.

 

[Busaholic]

With respect, the reasons given by First do not apply in the case I cited, do not include 'card clash' as TfL describe it and basically are trying to pin the blame on the holder. The point of the pass being acceptable for the majority of the time is also not being addressed. Perhaps dumbcard might be a more apt description than smartcard. I can see this being a contentious issue throughout the country, or Firstland at least, and with a General Election looming..,
First keeping the cards they deem unacceptable is also problematic. As a retailer I have only once been told by my debit/credit card service provider to keep someone's card (it wasn't being used fraudently) and it lost me a customer. In the early days of cheque guarantee cards I had the embarassing situation of having my card cut in half by a bank teller for a spurious reason which the bank had later to grovel to me for.

 

[richw]

I get messages regularly to retain a card by servicers. Only problem is all of my transactions are remote by telephone, and I never come into contact with the card itself.
First keeping failed cards is what they have been told by government. It's not their rules.
The only way of knowing whether it's the reader is if another pass user gets on at the same time and works. Then we know certain that the card is the problem.
There are so many scenarios where the council will block a card now I forsee problems with it a lot, especially added with cards that lose their function due to previously mentioned reasons.
The bus companies I fear won't be sympathetic as the bus companies get paid so little for transporting pass holders, they will be rubbing their hands at the thought of a full fare.
Then again they won't leave a pensioner stranded surely?

 

[Volvodart]

First are just following the procedures shown on the Cornwall council website and what already happens in other areas.

 

[Goldfish62]

It's got nothing to do with the operator, it's the council. Many local authorities have been doing this for a while now precisely in order to prevent fraud, otherwise what is the point of using smartcard technology for the passes?

What does need to happen is proper publicity for the change of policy.

 

[RPI]

First are just following the procedures shown on the Cornwall council website and what already happens in other areas.

Yeah but then Busaholic wouldn't be able to feed the First group chip on his shoulder

 

[83G/84D]

Former Fal River Dart S723 KNV has lost it's Fal River branding and gained FDC legals and a fleetnumber.