Cambridge to Manchester day return: peak/off-peak at weekends?

[arb]

I have a sudden need to make a day return from Cambridge to Manchester on Sunday (4th Jan), arriving in Manchester before 1pm, and ideally with flexibility on the return time (though I would commit to a specific train departing any time after 5:30pm if there was a significant saving to be had with advance tickets, but it seems like I'm far too late for advances to be worthwhile!).

Therefore I've been looking at the price of flexible tickets on National Rail Enquiries. There seem to be four different routes out of Cambridge that it's offering me:
1) via London: £101.60 (off-peak return, route any permitted)
2) via Ely, Peterborough, and then Doncaster/Leeds: £81.20 (off-peak return, route not via London)
3) via Hitchin, Peterborough and Leeds: also £81.20 (off-peak return, route not via London)
4) via Stevenage and Leeds: £405 (anytime return, route any permitted)!!!

Is this really correct? Do I really need an anytime return to travel via Stevenage (and then not subsequently via London) on Sunday morning? What's the reason that the off-peak tickets aren't valid? Or is this just a bug in National Rail Enquiries? The Stevenage route appears to be the fastest option (departing at 08:28) so that's my preferred choice, but not at £405!

If this isn't a bug in National Rail Enquiries, and off-peak tickets are valid, are there any tricks for getting the fare cheaper than £81.20 this close to travel? I've played around with a few splits in the obvious places (Ely, Peterborough, Stevenage, Doncaster, Leeds), but nothing really seems to help, so I'm assuming this is the best I can now get.

 

[bb21]

The £101 fare should be valid via Stevenage. The £81 fare is not valid via Stevenage due to the doubleback at Hitchin, however an easy get-around is to buy the ticket from Shelford, for the same price as that of from Cambridge (£81.20), and start/finish short at Cambridge, due to Easement 700070:

Customers travelling from stations North of Cheshunt via Cambridge and Hitchin to stations North of Hitchin may double back between Hitchin and Stevenage. This easement applies in both directions.

 

[arb]

The £101 fare should be valid via Stevenage. The £81 fare is not valid via Stevenage due to the doubleback at Hitchin,

Do you mean that the £101 fare is valid via Stevenage and then onwards only via London, or that it is valid via Stevenage and then doubling back to travel north from Stevenage? Why would the "any permitted" ticket allow the doubleback, but not the "non via London" ticket?

(Or if what you're saying is that the off-peak any permitted ticket doesn't allow the doubleback, then why does the anytime any permitted ticket allow it?)

however an easy get-around is to buy the ticket from Shelford, for the same price as that of from Cambridge (£81.20), and start/finish short at Cambridge, due to Easement 700070:

National Rail Enquiries also shows Shelford to Manchester (changing at Cambridge, Stevenage and Leeds) as requiring the anytime any permitted £405 ticket.

 

[bb21]

Do you mean that the £101 fare is valid via Stevenage and then onwards only via London, or that it is valid via Stevenage and then doubling back to travel north from Stevenage? Why would the "any permitted" ticket allow the doubleback, but not the "non via London" ticket?

The Not Via London fare is not valid via Stevenage as I cannot see a relevant easement which permits doubleback for journeys from Cambridge, only via Cambridge. I suspect that the intention is to include Cambridge but it was just poorly worded, however this can be easily got around as I mentioned earlier.

In fact I made an error when looking up the Routeing Guide earlier as for some reason I looked up permitted routes for Cambridge to Leeds rather than Manchester. What this means is that actually for Cambridge to Manchester the doubleback is not permitted by strict interpretation of the Routeing Guide even for +Any Permitted fares, for the same reason stated above, but again this can be got around by purchasing from Shelford. The +Any Permitted fare is valid via Stevenage into London, then out to Manchester via any permitted route between London Group and Manchester Group, of which the ECML is not one unfortunately.

The situation surrounding the doubleback at Hitchin is a bit of a messy one. I believe there used to be a Hitchin routeing group which included Hitchin and Stevenage iirc, which would have allowed the doubleback due to the Group Station Rule. That was however abolished at the last revamp and replaced with numerous easements, which inevitably missed out some journey permutations that were previously permitted. There may be a discrepancy between the electronic implementation of the Routeing Guide and the published paper version, and I suspect that may be the reason behind some of the inconsistencies.

(Or if what you're saying is that the off-peak any permitted ticket doesn't allow the doubleback, then why does the anytime any permitted ticket allow it?)

I cannot offer you any explanation. They should have the same routeing permission, and the way I see it is that neither the Off-Peak nor the Anytime should be valid for the doubleback at Hitchin by strict interpretation of the current version of the Routeing Guide.

That said, as I mentioned earlier, I suspect that the intention was that the doubleback be valid for journeys from Cambridge, because it certainly used to be, but I would say buy from Shelford to be sure.

National Rail Enquiries also shows Shelford to Manchester (changing at Cambridge, Stevenage and Leeds) as requiring the anytime any permitted £405 ticket.

That makes no sense. There is no time restriction on Sundays.

 

[PermitToTravel]

The £81.20 fare has unpublished off-peak restrictions that apply on every day, including weekends. You should feel free to ignore these as they are not in the contractual version of the restrictions.

 

[arb]

I've experimented with some different journey planners. Everywhere I've tried seems to think that the Hitchin/Stevenage doubleback is allowed (in contrast to what the routeing guide/easements actually allow), but they disagree over the price.

All three of the TOCs involved in the journey via Stevenage (Great Northern, East Coast and TransPennine Express) will offer me the off-peak not via London £81.20 fare as valid for travelling via Stevenage.

On the other hand, Virgin and The TrainLine agree with National Rail Enquiries in saying that I need the anytime any permitted fare.

So presumably only some of the journey planners are actually using the "unpublished" restrictions?

 

[PermitToTravel]

The unpublished restrictions also state that the restriction code does not apply on Saturdays and Sundays. I'd guess that WebTIS-based booking engines (those with the "Mixing deck") think that this instruction takes priority, whereas TheTrainLine-based booking engines (EMT, Virgin, CrossCountry, TheTrainLine itself, and possibly a few more) think that the restriction that "applies on every day" takes priority.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I wonder what Ticket Vending Machines try to charge at these times...

 

[arb]

That explanation makes sense - thanks. But given that the sole purpose of these hidden restrictions is for computers (and not humans) to use, I'm absolutely amazed that it isn't (a) properly specified which one takes priority, and/or (b) properly tested that the sites selling tickets have got the priority correct.

I wonder how many tests there are to make sure the opposite problem doesn't occur, and that the booking sites never accidentally sell the off-peak £81 ticket on a weekday morning when only the £400+ peak ticket should be valid...!

 

[John @ home]

I wonder how many tests there are to make sure the opposite problem doesn't occur, and that the booking sites never accidentally sell the off-peak £81 ticket on a weekday morning when only the £400+ peak ticket should be valid...!

Not very many. Last year, a large number of £86 tickets were sold at £8.60.