the Increasingly Frustrating Thameslink

[Aictos]

Yes, it is. How many phone calls will that take? How do you make sure that there's someone in the right place to take that call at every station?
Surely the best option is to broadcast one message to as many people as possible at one time (by email, Blackberry, or whatever).

Not really you seem to misunderstand my point like others before you, I'm referring to a station directly and primarily impacted by the alternation for example if St Pancras had carriage sidings, how difficult would it be for one phone call from signaller or service delivery control to the station supervisor to advise of a change from a booked platform? It's not rocket science, now for something that would affect multiple stations then a network wide broadcast is needed.

I'm not asking for someone to call every single station, just the fact that the stations which are manned 24/7 by platform staff do need to be kept in the loop so they can deliver the expected service the passenger expects, as I've said there might well be a reason not to use the booked platform at such a station but when the earliest you find out is a announcement or seeing the train pull into a different platform then booked then it makes the job even more difficult as it is then seen as the fault of the platform staff for the last minute change even if they had nothing to do with it.

I know how busy it can be in a control environment as I've been in one many times but communication like I said could be better for example, that train I mentioned was at a manned station, not difficult to tell the platform staff it was now terminating there especially as the same platform staff had been giving service delivery centre staff minute by minute updates to give them a better idea of what was happening.

Not having a go at anyone in particular just voicing my experiences that communication can always be better, I know it wouldn't be perfect because if it was then there be no need for improvements.

Same works in reverse if platform staff require a platform alteration then they need to communicate with control and signallers to enact this, it's a two way street not a one way street.

 

[LBSCR Times]

Not really you seem to misunderstand my point like others before you, I'm referring to a station directly and primarily impacted by the alternation for example if St Pancras had carriage sidings, how difficult would it be.....

If you are going to use vague terms then of course you are going to be misunderstood.
Unless you are referring to Thameslink (Control), as that is what this topic is about, then platform alterations are usually done by signallers remote from the Control staff, and often the first the Info Controller knows of it is after the train has been replatformed, because of the short timescale involved, whilst cancellations etc are advised by the TOC Controller direct to the initial station concerned. By the way, the TL Control transfers to Three Bridges ROC on Boxing Day, so the line of communication back to West Hampstead will be longer.

 

[Tomnick]

Whenever I need to make contact with one of the stations on our patch (usually to tell them that an arriving train needs to be shunted to clear the running line, so that they can prevent passengers boarding for the return journey and assist the guard in getting the train away promptly), it usually takes a while - sometimes two or three phone calls - for them to answer. It's fairly important in that case, but unfortunately something like a platform alteration that'll be picked up - albeit late - automatically by the various systems anyway is fairly low on the list of priorities. Quite often, you'll probably find that the signalman is simply too busy with other phone calls, and of course signalling trains, to let the station staff know what's going on.

 

[Abpj17]

There should be something for everyone - the "compensation" should include people who don't have season tickets, and should also consider the repeated delays of 0 minutes.

I don't really want vouchers, or free leisure journeys or cash. As a gesture they should provide free coffee and bacon rolls to all passengers for a week

Love the spirit; suspect the bacon would cause problems given the demographics of passengers (especially from Luton); and personally not v. fond of coffee First class declassifcation for season ticket holders out of peak times would be popular with me at least lol.

More broadly, on the comms, tweeting it ought to work. It doesn't matter so much about buggies etc. if the redirection is a train every 15 minutes for an hour or two. The frequency is one of the benefits.

 

[387star]

Have they taken over those southeastern stations yet

 

[ItchyRsole]

Service has been vastly improved last 4 days.

New drivers must be hitting the rails.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Is today their first without any cancellations ?

 

[LBSCR Times]

Have they taken over those southeastern stations yet

Yes, but day to day operation is still in the hands of the South Eastern until TL get extra Controllers.

 

[Class377/5]

Is today their first without any cancellations ?

Techinally no.

 

[Chrisgr31]

FCC could be fairly poor with information during major disruptions, but TSGN, so far, just go silent. It's incredibly frustrating to travel some distance to a country station, having checked the website and OJP, only to find there will be no trains running for the next couple of hours.

It's always been my main complaint about Southern, there is no consistency to their approach when something goes wrong. Sometimes the information output via twitter the website, train staff, station staff is excellent, and other times it is non-existent.

As passengers we assume its all dependent on who is in charge at control. Its also very noticeable on the trains that on the few occasions we have a train failure the recovery is always dependent on the onboard staff. Some are excellent at coming up with solutions then getting control to accept the plan, other just run round like headless chickens, and the passengers ponder why obvious soultions arent progressed.

So maybe the incompetent control staff have moved to Thameslink!

 

[LBSCR Times]

It's always been my main complaint about Southern, there is no consistency to their approach....

So maybe the incompetent control staff have moved to Thameslink!

A lot of experienced staff have either retired, or moved over to Network Rail, where the pay is considerably higher.
There is no manual for Control staff telling them how to do things, most of it gained from experience over the years.

 

[Abpj17]

Service has been vastly improved last 4 days.

New drivers must be hitting the rails.

Nah lol, less passengers due to Xmas, and from notifications there have still been issues etc. - train faults, signalling problems, but some have been resolved through e.g.reducing trains to 4 carriages instead of 8.

 

[jon0844]

I was going to joke that at least there were no cancellations on Christmas Day but then according to RTT it looks like some places have a regular timetable but then have every single service cancelled.

Of course that's presumably just an easier way to manage the shut down, but I guess it also means that GTR had 100% of its services cancelled yesterday!

 

[asylumxl]

I was going to joke that at least there were no cancellations on Christmas Day but then according to RTT it looks like some places have a regular timetable but then have every single service cancelled.

Of course that's presumably just an easier way to manage the shut down, but I guess it also means that GTR had 100% of its services cancelled yesterday!

So a better PPM than normal?

 

[21C101]

So a better PPM than normal?

I wonder if that boosts the PPM average for the period?

 

[Bald Rick]

I wonder if that boosts the PPM average for the period?

PPM is based on the number of trains 'on time' vs those planned to operate over any given time period. So running no trains doesn't boost the average for a period or year.

 

[Class377/5]

I was going to joke that at least there were no cancellations on Christmas Day but then according to RTT it looks like some places have a regular timetable but then have every single service cancelled.

Of course that's presumably just an easier way to manage the shut down, but I guess it also means that GTR had 100% of its services cancelled yesterday!

That's how the system works. Every bank holiday or engineering work see the timetabled trains cancelled in the system. And why I said technically there were cancellations yesterday.

 

[jon0844]

I never knew that before.

A very poor show for every TOC then.

 

[Class377/5]

I never knew that before.

A very poor show for every TOC then.

Glad to be informative

 

[Bishopstone]

Just changing trains at Brighton, and I see consecutive Thameslink departures (15.14 and 15.44) are cancelled.

'Minor delays' says the Thameslink website of this 90 minute gap between trains.

 

[LBSCR Times]

Just changing trains at Brighton, and I see consecutive Thameslink departures (15.14 and 15.44) are cancelled.

'Minor delays' says the Thameslink website of this 90 minute gap between trains.

There are also the half hourly services between Three Bridges and Bedford. Southern were announcing that TL passengers could use their services, so presumably they'd get one of theirs and change at East Croydon?

 

[Bishopstone]

There are also the half hourly services between Three Bridges and Bedford. Southern were announcing that TL passengers could use their services, so presumably they'd get one of theirs and change at East Croydon?

The Thameslink website makes no reference to Southern accepting TL tickets:

Alternative travel options

Passengers may use London Underground and South West Trains services on any reasonable route.

I am sure Southern were also accepting TL tickets, but it's typical of TL that they can't be bothered to maintain accurate and timely information on their site.

In any event, in terms of whether a delay is marked as 'major', I would expect that to be decided based upon the service provision of Thameslink alone, and not by reference to opportunities involving use of other TOCs and changing mid-journey.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

The missus gets back to Luton Airport around 17:40 and at the Thameslink desk at the airport she is advised that there won't be a Southbound stopper till 19:14. She calls me while having a coffee so I double check on here and find that the 18:51 stopper is running.
Cancellations and misinformation seems pretty much the every day norm and you just can't see it getting any better anytime soon.

 

[LBSCR Times]

The Thameslink website makes no reference to Southern accepting TL tickets:

Alternative travel options

Passengers may use London Underground and South West Trains services on any reasonable route.

I am sure Southern were also accepting TL tickets, but it's typical of TL that they can't be bothered to maintain accurate and timely information on their site.

In any event, in terms of whether a delay is marked as 'major', I would expect that to be decided based upon the service provision of Thameslink alone, and not by reference to opportunities involving use of other TOCs and changing mid-journey.

Hmmmmm......

Alternative travel options

Passengers may use London Underground , Southern and South West Trains services on any reasonable route.

Anyway, major disruption on Thameslink certainly wouldn't be two consecutive cancellations,
that would be reserved for something like the core shut due to the wires being down.

 

[Bishopstone]

Hmmmmm......

Alternative travel options

Passengers may use London Underground , Southern and South West Trains services on any reasonable route.

Anyway, major disruption on Thameslink certainly wouldn't be two consecutive cancellations,
that would be reserved for something like the core shut due to the wires being down.

'Southern' has been added since the time of my post. I double-checked the website very carefully, before posting.

In my view, a 90 minute gap between trains on a supposedly half-hourly service constitutes major disruption.

I gather some of the trains following cancelled services were only 4-car, and therefore crowded. What is the excuse for this, given the shortage is supposedly of staff rather than stock?

 

[DelayRepay]

Can any of the insiders help? On the Christmas timetables for tomorrow (Southbound) most of the trains are shown as skipping City Thameslink until about 9am, although the odd one is stopping (http://www.thameslinkrailway.com/your-journey/engineering/christmastimes/)

Is City closed tomorrow or have they made an error? I think this has also been loaded into journey planners as people are complaining on Twitter that there are no trains during the morning peak (which would appear to be the case if you enter City Thameslink as your destination from the North).

Cheers if anyone knows.

 

[jon0844]

That's a limitation of many (most?) planners when there's engineering work or even a scheduled timetable change for a particular holiday/event. If you search from A to B and there's no A or B (but perhaps a short diversion, bus replacement for example even for just some of it) then you can be told there's nothing at all. Not that it's made up of part bus, part train.

A more flexible planner might of course show other services and reveal that your train does run but not all the way, but I've seen plenty of times on a Sunday (for example) that it appears there's nothing running whatsoever. Irregular passengers might not investigate any further and stay at home, but perhaps TOCs aren't too bothered as it relieves pressure on the buses.

Can't answer the bit about City Thameslink being open before 9am though, sorry.

 

[DelayRepay]

That's a limitation of many (most?) planners when there's engineering work or even a scheduled timetable change for a particular holiday/event. If you search from A to B and there's no A or B (but perhaps a short diversion, bus replacement for example even for just some of it) then you can be told there's nothing at all. Not that it's made up of part bus, part train.

Yes - in this case the train is obviously running as it calls as Farringdon and then Blackfriers. If for some reason City is closed, it's no real hardship to walk from one or the other of the adjacent stations. But giving the impression no trains are running will cause confusion.

I suspect this is a mistake though as there are a couple of trains shown as calling at City and there is no reason for it to be closed tomorrow.

 

[21C101]

Yes - in this case the train is obviously running as it calls as Farringdon and then Blackfriers. If for some reason City is closed, it's no real hardship to walk from one or the other of the adjacent stations. But giving the impression no trains are running will cause confusion.

I suspect this is a mistake though as there are a couple of trains shown as calling at City and there is no reason for it to be closed tomorrow.

If you are at the front of a 12 car train going south it is actually quicker to get off at City Thameslink and walk to Blackfriars Underground than it is to get of at Blackfriars and walk to Blackfriars Underground!. They must be the closest spaced stations on the entire network.

 

[talltim]

PPM is based on the number of trains 'on time' vs those planned to operate over any given time period. So running no trains doesn't boost the average for a period or year.

Wrong. If you plan to run no trains in a day your PPM can't get worse. If you do run trains it can get worse