the Increasingly Frustrating Thameslink

[SPADTrap]

Many cancelled trains this evening due to "signalling problems". I know there was a major signalling problem at Gatwick today, but interestingly, the trains cancelled tonight due to signalling problems were the same ones that were cancelled most of last week due to "unavailability of a train crew member". That smacks of using the Network Rail infrastructure issue as a way of masking the driver shortage.

The 'emergency button' was pressed in error in the signal box and then they had troubles resetting the panel which caused chaos, not a conspiracy I'm afraid to report - I know people love them!

Doesn't 'smack' of anything of the sort

 

[Bishopstone]

The 'emergency button' was pressed in error in the signal box and then they had troubles resetting the panel which caused chaos

Please tell me it's large, red and mushroom-shaped, as it would be if James Bond (circa 1973) did signal box emergency plungers.

 

[SPADTrap]

Please tell me it's large, red and mushroom-shaped, as it would be if James Bond (circa 1973) did signal box emergency plungers.

That I'm not sure about!

 

[DelayRepay]

London Travelwatch are calling for compensation:

e met with the Chief Operating Officer of Govia Thameslink Railway (GTR) on Friday to discuss performance problems arising on the new franchise which began in September and the impact these are having on passengers.

As the independent body representing passengers in and around London we are concerned that those using the services provided under the new Thameslink Southern and Great Northern (TSGN) franchise are not getting the service they were promised, particularly given the large amounts of money they pay on fares. Passengers have stoically accepted the inevitable service delays associated with the rebuilding of London Bridge station but, on top of this, performance and service levels have dropped significantly in recent weeks despite heavy publicity about the passenger benefits of the new franchise.

Stephen Locke, Chair, London TravelWatch commented: 'We have asked GTR, the Department for Transport (DfT) and Network Rail to agree a compensation package for all those affected by the widescale service disruptions over the past few weeks on each of the routes which will make up the new TSGN franchise. A significant gesture is necessary now if they are to have any chance of recovering the trust and confidence of increasingly cynical commuters who, being effectively a captive market, have no choice but to put up with the situation. It is also essential that the operator, Network Rail and the DfT reflect on the lessons learned from what has been a frustrating start to the new franchise for passengers, to ensure that similar problems do not occur when other franchises are let.'

http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/news/view?id=507&x[0]=news/list

 

[Hophead]

One would rather like to think that the MD has been invited in for "tea & biscuits" with the Minister by now.

 

[tsr]

That I'm not sure about!

It depends which one. I can't recall any which are exactly "mushroom"-style, but there are certainly some pretty fearsome emergency buttons under huge red covers which you'd have to be pretty daft/unlucky/evil to press - and they look appropriately intimidating because they lead to signalling issues of a rather large scale, as seen today.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I too have noticed the mesmerising gates in Stevenage opening! This is because Train Noob has decreed that bread shall again be rationed as a means of exercising war communism in a new dawn! George Braid sends his regards.

Pardon me? What manner of apocalyptic torment has struck Satanage this time? I did not realise they had been struck by extremist neo-Communist gateline staff. That'll be the last straw for GTR customers... apart, of course, from the ones who always get their season ticket lost in the barriers.

 

[AmeralGunson]

I think people who slated FCC either don't remember or didn't use the original Govia Thameslink. Unreliable, unclean and perpetually late.

While FCC couldn't and didn't turn things around immediately, I felt the cleanliness improved considerably, with regular use of on-train cleaners. Time keeping and such improved as the franchise progressed. But people are never happy. Even if every train was on time and immaculate they'd still find a reason to complain.

Believe me friend, every train being on time and immaculate is what some of us passengers - I'm so glad that I'm not a regular commuter now - can only dream about.
Available seats
Clean trains
Serviceable toilets
Helpful and informative staff
Trains running as booked - including connections
Clear and accurate information when it goes wrong - we know it goes wrong and it's not always the train companies fault but for heaven's sake have a plan what to do - then tell us
Ticket offices that are open/ticket machines that are working
get that lot right and you'll hardly ever be bothered.

 

[Saint66]

There was a BBC London report on the lunch time news on the recent Thameslink delays and cancellations. They said that Thameslink are offering travellers two days of free travel on top of the usual compensation.

 

[jon0844]

Let's hope those two days aren't Christmas Day and Boxing Day!

 

[asylumxl]

There was a BBC London report on the lunch time news on the recent Thameslink delays and cancellations. They said that Thameslink are offering travellers two days of free travel on top of the usual compensation.

Are they going to add it for season ticket owners only? Any idea.?

 

[Stats]

There was a BBC London report on the lunch time news on the recent Thameslink delays and cancellations. They said that Thameslink are offering travellers two days of free travel on top of the usual compensation.

I think its 2 free return journeys rather than 2 free days of travel, assuming they are talking about the enhanced compensation policy. The enhanced compensation policy offers season ticket holders 2 free return journeys anywhere on Thameslink or GN to be used within 12 months, or national rail vouchers to the value of a single ticket between the stations on their season ticket. To be entitled the season ticket holder has to be delayed for more than 30 minutes for 12 or more days in a reporting period.

 

[Abpj17]

I think its 2 free return journeys rather than 2 free days of travel, assuming they are talking about the enhanced compensation policy. The enhanced compensation policy offers season ticket holders 2 free return journeys anywhere on Thameslink or GN to be used within 12 months, or national rail vouchers to the value of a single ticket between the stations on their season ticket. To be entitled the season ticket holder has to be delayed for more than 30 minutes for 12 or more days in a reporting period.

*sighs* but that is so pointless - we have season tickets -_- my growing stock of delay vouchers is equally growing; would infinitely prefer the cash value.

Going back a week or two btw; got the delay repay for the train that blocked City from 10 - 1pm. The letter says the delay was due to units of the same type being needed to move it (and also notes there were problems with information systems on the same day).

 

[jon0844]

GTR has just updated its Thameslink app and it mentions new ways to relay information during disruption. Anyone tried it?

 

[Bishopstone]

An M&S voucher, as distributed after the Oxted tunnel closure, would go down nicely.

 

[asylumxl]

But meanwhile, those using carnets and the like on a regular basis will get nothing.

I'd say they should implement accounts for all users and keep track of the number of claims and the amounts, irrelevant of ticket type, but GTR doesn't do good websites.

 

[Taunton]

got the delay repay for the train that blocked City from 10 - 1pm. The letter says the delay was due to units of the same type being needed to move it .

That is the same as what was at the heart of the Kentish Town fiasco that came to the attention of the RAIB; it is apparent that this approach of using another unit of the same type takes hours to achieve. I really did hope that the RAIB would pick up harder on a "rescue plan" which involves this approach to pushing out, then plans a timetable which schedules alternate trains of different and incompatible stock, as a gross stupidity.

When will it be realised that what is needed on standby on the core to deal with breakdowns is a LOCOMOTIVE .........

 

[Bald Rick]

That is the same as what was at the heart of the Kentish Town fiasco that came to the attention of the RAIB; it is apparent that this approach of using another unit of the same type takes hours to achieve. I really did hope that the RAIB would pick up harder on a "rescue plan" which involves this approach to pushing out, then plans a timetable which schedules alternate trains of different and incompatible stock, as a gross stupidity.

When will it be realised that what is needed on standby on the core to deal with breakdowns is a LOCOMOTIVE .........

Which locomotive would that be? There's only one type allowed down there. And which of the types of units do you make it automatically compatible with? As it can only be one...

 

[Aictos]

I shouldn't comment but seeing how disruption has been handled by both Network Rail and GTR, I can see why passengers are getting upset with lack of communication from both companies.

Having a policy in which automatic announcements take priority over communicating to frontline staff first affected by disruption on service alterations is a recipe for disaster regardless of TOC, by this I refer to alternations being made with no notice to frontline staff other then a sudden announcement by ATOS Anne :roll:

If frontline staff can be kept better informed by these running the service then they can keep their passengers informed and everyone is happy.

By all means, I understand the service has to be put back like a jigsaw puzzle but communication is important otherwise passengers get upset as do frontline staff who feel hopeless.

And people wonder why passengers get upset....

 

[Saint66]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-30588620

A watchdog has called for commuters to receive "significant" compensation after a series of delays and cancellations at a new rail franchise.

From 12 October to 8 November, 24% of Thameslink services were delayed and 18% of Great Northern trains arrived late, according to figures from Govia Thameslink Railway.

London TravelWatch said a "significant gesture" was needed to regain trust.

The Govia Thameslink Railway franchise apologised for the network's service.

London TravelWatch said it was extremely concerned about the lack of train drivers across the franchise.

Stephen Locke, chair of the watchdog, said: "A significant gesture is necessary now if they are to have any chance of recovering the trust and confidence of increasingly cynical commuters who, being effectively a captive market, have no choice but to put up with the situation."

He added lessons needed to be learned from the "frustrating start" to the new franchise.

Govia, which is 65%-owned by Go-Ahead and 35%-owned by French firm Keolis, took over the franchise in September.

From 9 November until 6 December, 4% of Thameslink services were cancelled and 21.3% were delayed, while 2.9% of Great Northern services were cancelled and 16% were delayed, according to figures from Govia.

In a statement, Govia said: "We apologise for the recent service on our network and in particular on Thameslink.

"As well as issues such as train failures which we are determined to address, there have been many problems with infrastructure, such as signal failures."

The company also blamed a shortage of drivers for the cancellations and said they were recruiting more drivers.

Govia said passengers who had been delayed at least 12 times in a four-week period would be entitled to claim enhanced compensation.

Thameslink services run between Bedford and Brighton; and Luton, St Albans, Sutton and Wimbledon, while Great Northern Trains run between London and Peterborough, Cambridge and King's Lynn and Welwyn Garden City.

 

[tsr]

I believe the compensation for passengers delayed over 12 times (and 12 delays over 30mins is quite a lot in 4 weeks) is to offer them a few extra complimentary journeys on GTR.

Tactful.

 

[Taunton]

Which locomotive would that be? There's only one type allowed down there. And which of the types of units do you make it automatically compatible with? As it can only be one...

This is I think the basic problem, that everything is always viewed from a "can't" rather than a "how could we" perspective. The days of ingenuity (bearing in mind how the word "engineer" is originally derived from "ingenuity") seem to be long passed in certain areas.

 

[DelayRepay]

There should be something for everyone - the "compensation" should include people who don't have season tickets, and should also consider the repeated delays of 0 minutes.

I don't really want vouchers, or free leisure journeys or cash. As a gesture they should provide free coffee and bacon rolls to all passengers for a week

 

[Bald Rick]

This is I think the basic problem, that everything is always viewed from a "can't" rather than a "how could we" perspective. The days of ingenuity (bearing in mind how the word "engineer" is originally derived from "ingenuity") seem to be long passed in certain areas.

But before the "how" comes "why" and "what"

The "what" is: in the event of a train failure in the core where the train is unable to move under its own power, what is the quickest and most effective method of reliably moving the train to clear the line. "why" to minimise total delay.

And the answer to that (after a lot of thinking I might add) is:

A) a fitter based at Farringdon (tick)
B) a common fleet (which it was till 4 years ago, and will be again within 3 years)
C) crossovers between the lines so that assistance can be provided from front or rear by the next available compatible stock. If the one in rear is not compatible, then there will almost always be a compatible one coming the other way within 30 mins. (Tick)

That covers 99% of failure scenarios.

If however, in the very rare event that the failure disables the front cab, as in this case, and the one behind is not compatible, also as in this case, it really doesn't matter what rescues it - unit, loco, a fleet of winged horses with tightlock couplings, it has to get to the back of the train. And that means shifting the one in rear first.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

That is the same as what was at the heart of the Kentish Town fiasco that came to the attention of the RAIB; it is apparent that this approach of using another unit of the same type takes hours to achieve. I really did hope that the RAIB would pick up harder on a "rescue plan" which involves this approach to pushing out, then plans a timetable which schedules alternate trains of different and incompatible stock, as a gross stupidity.

When will it be realised that what is needed on standby on the core to deal with breakdowns is a LOCOMOTIVE .........

It might have been in 1966 with a few loose coupled freights knocking around.Only 31 +33 were allowed last time I looked - and then with a full isolation of the OLE , whcih would have knocked you out to Kentish Town - 601 and 602 sections - as my expert Baldrick friend will confirm.

 

[Bertie the bus]

With the number of services on Thameslink unless the service failed adjacent to the siding the rescue loco was stabled in there would almost certainly be other units between the failed service and the loco anyway, so the loco wouldn't be able to rescue it.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

With the number of services on Thameslink unless the service failed adjacent to the siding the rescue loco was stabled in there would almost certainly be other units between the failed service and the loco anyway, so the loco wouldn't be able to rescue it.

Exactly .....(and who would want to sit on a loco for an 8 hour shift with nothing to do in any case) !

Old , now retired mate of mine , used to work the Snow Hill banking engine in the 1960's to push freights Farringdon to Blackfriars on the night shift - bored senseless - so he took to carrying his air rifle to work and shooting rats. I digress.......

 

[21C101]

B) a common fleet (which it was till 4 years ago, and will be again within 3 years)

I do wonder why they are using the 387s on Thameslink and not using them for Southern Duties and moving more 377s to Thameslink. Then there would only be two different types.

As it stands we may well have four different units soon for a while 319, 377, 387, 700.

 

[LBSCR Times]

I do wonder why they are using the 387s on Thameslink and not using them for Southern Duties and moving more 377s to Thameslink. Then there would only be two different types.

As it stands we may well have four different units soon for a while 319, 377, 387, 700.

Brighton Mainline as of current.....
319, 377, 387, 442.....!!
Standby loco in Stewart's Lane, driver at Victoria.
How long would that take to get to Balcombe or Hassocks?

It's not just Thameslink.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I shouldn't comment but seeing how disruption has been handled by both Network Rail and GTR, I can see why passengers are getting upset with lack of communication from both companies.

Having a policy in which automatic announcements take priority over communicating to frontline staff first affected by disruption on service alterations is a recipe for disaster regardless of TOC, by this I refer to alternations being made with no notice to frontline staff other then a sudden announcement by ATOS Anne :roll:

If frontline staff can be kept better informed by these running the service then they can keep their passengers informed and everyone is happy.

By all means, I understand the service has to be put back like a jigsaw puzzle but communication is important otherwise passengers get upset as do frontline staff who feel hopeless.

And people wonder why passengers get upset....

The information does go out to frontline staff, either via email, GTR's internal 'Platform' website, which by the way lists all alterations and used to give out the same information on the old FCC external website, or via Blackberry / mobile phone. The problem can be too many irrelevant messages, such as minor late running, ticket offices closed etc, which whilst important to some staff eg: RPI, clog up the system when there is disruption.
Then there is the old chestnut of how it is distributed amongst frontline staff, but that has been going on since BR days. I remember the old Southern telex system. As Control typed it, so it was coming out live the other end, at selected stations, and staff at those stations were supposed to pass that info on to the outlying areas.
A lot of Thameslink drivers do phone their Control direct to find out what is happening, as the signaller is often overwhelmed in periods of disruption to explain fully what is happening.

 

[Aictos]

Brighton Mainline as of current.....
319, 377, 387, 442.....!!
Standby loco in Stewart's Lane, driver at Victoria.
How long would that take to get to Balcombe or Hassocks?

It's not just Thameslink.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


The information does go out to frontline staff, either via email, GTR's internal 'Platform' website, which by the way lists all alterations and used to give out the same information on the old FCC external website, or via Blackberry / mobile phone. The problem can be too many irrelevant messages, such as minor late running, ticket offices closed etc, which whilst important to some staff eg: RPI, clog up the system when there is disruption.
Then there is the old chestnut of how it is distributed amongst frontline staff, but that has been going on since BR days. I remember the old Southern telex system. As Control typed it, so it was coming out live the other end, at selected stations, and staff at those stations were supposed to pass that info on to the outlying areas.
A lot of Thameslink drivers do phone their Control direct to find out what is happening, as the signaller is often overwhelmed in periods of disruption to explain fully what is happening.

I'm referring to these awful announcements advising of cancellations before the frontline staff have been advised thus making them look stupid when they advise pax they didn't know of the cancellation!

For example, is it really too difficult to pick up the phone to whatever location will see the amendment and advise them before setting a route or broadcasting a announcement?

For example, many times I have a last minute platform alterations with no notice and often for no reason at all, when you have elderly passengers or mothers with buggies trying to quickly get down the stairs and across to the amended platform it's just crying out for a accident to happen.

Some information does get put out but it when's manned stations only hear of amendments AFTER it's been broadcasted automatically on the station PA instead of a phone call previously is when it goes wrong and is what I mean by communication could be better.

I had a incident on Monday with local police requesting train as a crime scene wasn't moved, now because of the delay now caused to this the first I was aware it was now going to be cancelled was a automatic PA which isn't good enough especially as the station concerned has platform staff, at no point was this put out anywhere else be it phone call, email, tyrellcheck etc...

Hence why I stand by my view that communication for all TOCs and NWR should and can be better.

 

[EM2]

I'm referring to these awful announcements advising of cancellations before the frontline staff have been advised thus making them look stupid when they advise pax they didn't know of the cancellation!

For example, is it really too difficult to pick up the phone to whatever location will see the amendment and advise them before setting a route or broadcasting a announcement?

Yes, it is. How many phone calls will that take? How do you make sure that there's someone in the right place to take that call at every station?
Surely the best option is to broadcast one message to as many people as possible at one time (by email, Blackberry, or whatever).