Rather large out of court settlement

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . Although Private Eye seem to get closer than most- they fling mud at everyone, on all sides- I'm sure there is an agenda behind their choice of stories. . . .

I find schoolboy mudslinging is more entertaining when it really is indiscriminate in the direction in which it travels.

I do generally find that the Railways correspondent (Dr B. Ching) writes without any bias towards his/her actual professional involvement in the industry.

 

[island]

Quite right. "Bankers" covers an awful lot of different roles and responsibilities.

Indeed. Rather than dog-whistling "jail the bankers", I wonder if anyone would allege an actual crime which they believe a named individual to have committed. It is far from clear that there were many actual criminal offences committed in the course of their duties. I myself am a senior risk officer at a bank and I spend an awful lot of time diverting people away from doing silly things of the type that caused the last crisis, or investigating such actions where they happen. I greatly resent being labelled or bashed as a "banker".

 

[Tetchytyke]

Indeed. Rather than dog-whistling "jail the bankers", I wonder if anyone would allege an actual crime which they believe a named individual to have committed.

Nobody with any sense would do such a thing, unless they have a yearning desire to be sued for libel.

 

[Tibbs]

Well he's resigned from his job, so no need to be reinstated.

If he applies for another job in the industry, he'll have to declare this. If he applies for a new job which is a Controlled Function, his new employer would have to apply to the FCA. I cannot see any employer wanting to make that application even if they do want to employ a dishonest person in their bank.

So I very much doubt he'll work in the industry again.

If he doesn't have enough money to retire on (by the looks of it, he does), no doubt he'll toddle off into consultancy or go overseas and ply his trade there.

If his record is as good as he says, this little misdemeanour will quickly be forgotten. Profit > everything, remember.

 

[Flamingo]

For some reason, I always believe that Private Eye has unknown faces pulling strings to suit their own particular ends behind the scenes...

At the risk of going off-thread slightly, on one or two occasions I have been in the unfortunate position of knowing the background to a story in Private Eye (nothing to do with the railway or Dr B Ching, I hasten to add) and what they have printed has been very biased and inaccurate, of a standard one would expected from the Daily Mail.

I have canceled my subscription...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Indeed. Rather than dog-whistling "jail the bankers", I wonder if anyone would allege an actual crime which they believe a named individual to have committed. It is far from clear that there were many actual criminal offences committed in the course of their duties. I myself am a senior risk officer at a bank and I spend an awful lot of time diverting people away from doing silly things of the type that caused the last crisis, or investigating such actions where they happen. I greatly resent being labelled or bashed as a "banker".

A most mature of thought and well-phrased posting from a respected member of this website.

 

[Busaholic]

Jonathan Burrows was quoted to the effect that his actions had been 'foolish' :note he did not admit illegality or criminality. Knowing someone whose nearest station is Stonegate, they say his 'outing' was as a result of a particular newspaper going round trying to identify him and the resultant speculation leading to a couple of innocent parties having their names dragged into it, though not in the press. It was a process of elimination that led to the not-so-innocent Burrows being named.

We are often told that we jail more of the population than almost all other western countries, but in the case of fraud this is certainly not so. Even large-scale frauds see short jail sentences compared to France, Germany and the U.S.A., especially allowing for the actual time spent in prison, often in 'open' conditions.

As for 'Private Eye' remember its biggest enemies over the years- Robert Maxwell and James Goldsmith. How anyone could express astonishment as to their deeds after their deaths when so much of it had been valiantly catalogued in the Eye, despite libel actions both threatened and taken, is beyond me. Cyril Smith too was quite clearly a vile rapist of young boys known about for decades.

 

[Oswyntail]

Well, I will start with one Frederick Anderson Goodwin, currently sitting at home on six-figure pension having overseen and been responsible for the near collapse of one of the world's biggest banks.

Apologists for bankers irk me.

Being an incompetent buffoon is not illegal. There is nothing to suggest that Goodwin, along with the rest of the board, actually broke the law**. They were selfish idiots, but I guess the pension was contractually his. I doubt he even thinks the collapse was anything to do with him. But, in terms of the law, what can anyone do?
**Possibly along with anyone else - making stupid business decisions is not a criminal offence either.

 

[DelayRepay]

Indeed. Rather than dog-whistling "jail the bankers", I wonder if anyone would allege an actual crime which they believe a named individual to have committed. It is far from clear that there were many actual criminal offences committed in the course of their duties. I myself am a senior risk officer at a bank and I spend an awful lot of time diverting people away from doing silly things of the type that caused the last crisis, or investigating such actions where they happen. I greatly resent being labelled or bashed as a "banker".

A most mature of thought and well-phrased posting from a respected member of this website.

+1

It seems Island and I do similar jobs. I am a banker but I didn't cause the financial crisis, I don't go out drinking champagne and snorting coke every night and I don't earn an extortionate salary. Out industry has a terrible reputation but most people who work in it are decent and honest people. I'm glad this crook has been found out though, we can do without the likes of him.

It is funny because in another industry, the operating company neglected to maintain their assets which led to a number of deaths, the operating company being nationalised and a significant cost to the country. Yet rail workers don't get half the stick bankers receive.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . . Yet rail workers don't get half the stick bankers receive.

Hmmm. On this forum there are some who are forever trying to find fault, with a relentless determination.

 

[Flamingo]

Regarding another passenger advising the TOC what Mr Burrows was up to, it is not unknown for other passengers to point out regular scammers to train-crew. You never know who is looking at you day in day out if you make the same journey all the time.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Hmmm. On this forum there are some who are forever trying to find fault, with a relentless determination.

Surely not! hock:hock:hock:

 

[maniacmartin]

Hmmm. On this forum there are some who are forever trying to find fault, with a relentless determination.

You don't need determination, a single rail journey will do with some TOCs/routes

 

[DelayRepay]

Hmmm. On this forum there are some who are forever trying to find fault, with a relentless determination.

This is true but I think in general bankers are now more hated than even estate agents and traffic wardens! It didn't used to be like this!

On the bright side, it seems like electricity companies are the new banks so maybe we'll get a bit less hatred now
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Regarding another passenger advising the TOC what Mr Burrows was up to, it is not unknown for other passengers to point out regular scammers to train-crew. You never know who is looking at you day in day out if you make the same journey all the time.

I have done this a couple of times. Usually telling the guard when someone is hiding in the loo! (they had been in there for 30 minutes so I was concerned for their welfare )

I wonder if Mr Burrows is another one who thought it didn't matter since the worse that would happen if caught would be a £25 penalty fare?

 

[VauxhallandI]

+1

It seems Island and I do similar jobs. I am a banker but I didn't cause the financial crisis, I don't go out drinking champagne and snorting coke every night and I don't earn an extortionate salary. Out industry has a terrible reputation but most people who work in it are decent and honest people. I'm glad this crook has been found out though, we can do without the likes of him.

It is funny because in another industry, the operating company neglected to maintain their assets which led to a number of deaths, the operating company being nationalised and a significant cost to the country. Yet rail workers don't get half the stick bankers receive.

+2 and to add I don't get a huge bonus.

 

[yorksrob]

Being an incompetent buffoon is not illegal. There is nothing to suggest that Goodwin, along with the rest of the board, actually broke the law**. They were selfish idiots, but I guess the pension was contractually his. I doubt he even thinks the collapse was anything to do with him. But, in terms of the law, what can anyone do?
**Possibly along with anyone else - making stupid business decisions is not a criminal offence either.

Although removing a gong seems to be quite justifiable in this circumstance - although there were plenty of people whining in the business pages that this was somehow the height of unfairness (even though the business of handing them out is hardly open and democratic in the first place).

 

[island]

Nobody with any sense would do such a thing, unless they have a yearning desire to be sued for libel.

(Not legal advice)
Libel was abolished in Great Britain by the Defamation Act 1996. The replacement tort of defamation was greatly cut down by the Defamation Act 2013 which says that a statement is not defamatory unless its publication causes serious harm to reputation. It also provides several defences such as that the statement was an honestly held opinion.
(/Not legal advice)

 

[Tibbs]

Hmmm. On this forum there are some who are forever trying to find fault, with a relentless determination.

And just as many for whom the railway can do no wrong and are never at fault.

Swings & roundabouts.

 

[Tetchytyke]

defamation was greatly cut down by the Defamation Act 2013 which says that a statement is not defamatory unless its publication causes serious harm to reputation. It also provides several defences such as that the statement was an honestly held opinion.

And there's still enough ambiguity to leave one with a very large legal bill.

"I think x is dodgy" is very different to alleging that x has committed a specific criminal offence. I'm sure Sally Bercow can explain in more detail.

It is funny because in another industry, the operating company neglected to maintain their assets which led to a number of deaths, the operating company being nationalised and a significant cost to the country. Yet rail workers don't get half the stick bankers receive.

Rail workers don't get the stick that "bankers" receive, but most people are intelligent enough to understand that the bloke driving the 0712 to Victoria doesn't have a huge say in how things are run.

Railway directors get plenty of stick for how they behave. Jarvis got so much stick they lost their rail engineering business in 2004, following the derailment in the station throat at Kings Cross. Every day we see a trade unionist labelling some TOC director or another a fat cat.

When people talk about "bankers" they really mean the likes of Applegarth or Goodwin, or the hedge fund vultures who brag about paying less tax than their cleaner. They're talking about the executives who made a conscious decision to rip them off with their pension annuity, or selling them PPI they didn't need. They're talking about the likes of Bob Diamond, whining in the papers about how people are mean to bankers and how it's really really unfair, whilst the whole time his company was defrauding people of hundreds of millions of pounds through LIBOR and EurIBOR rigging.

They're not really talking about the young lass who works behind the counter in their local branch.

 

[bussnapperwm]

Usually it's either civil servants/local government officers or the rank and file bank officials that get the mud slung at by the press...

 

[FenMan]

Usually it's either civil servants/local government officers or the rank and file bank officials that get the mud slung at by the press...

Aren't teachers flavour of the month for this kind of tedious "us and them" nonsense?

 

[455driver]

Aren't teachers flavour of the month for this kind of tedious "us and them" nonsense?

Not in December, its 'pick on somebody else' month!

 

[jon0844]

Given how bankers are indeed blamed for everything, I thought this was quite a funny story;

Disgruntled RBS worker writes hilarious open letter to Russell Brand after anti-capitalist publicity stunt leaves him hungry:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...ublicity-stunt-leaves-him-hungry-9930135.html

 

[Flamingo]

Given how bankers are indeed blamed for everything, I thought this was quite a funny story;

Disgruntled RBS worker writes hilarious open letter to Russell Brand after anti-capitalist publicity stunt leaves him hungry:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...ublicity-stunt-leaves-him-hungry-9930135.html

I saw that! Brilliant!

 

[Greenback]

It's a very well written piece!

 

[67018]

Hmmm. On this forum there are some who are forever trying to find fault, with a relentless determination.

I was, indeed, struck by the level of uninformed criticism of a whole group of people who are, on the whole, hard working and do their best to serve the public, but attract criticism as they are seen as overpaid and tarred with the same brush as a minority of corrupt or incompetent individuals, usuallly from individuals who are ignorant of what they actually do or what skills they require.

Maybe bankers should team up with train drivers to improve their PR!

 

[Tetchytyke]

It's a very well written piece!

Most of it was.

The "wah wah I deserve my bonus" whining was very tedious, as was him trying to claim the RBS bailout was great for everyone.

 

[maniacmartin]

I was, indeed, struck by the level of uninformed criticism of a whole group of people who are, on the whole, hard working and do their best to serve the public, but attract criticism as they are seen as overpaid and tarred with the same brush as a minority of corrupt or incompetent individuals, usuallly from individuals who are ignorant of what they actually do or what skills they require.

I don't think you've been reading the Fares and Disputes sections that closely if that is what you think, because my experience is it is generally the other way round.

 

[Flamingo]

I don't think you've been reading the Fares and Disputes sections that closely if that is what you think, because my experience is it is generally the other way round.

What percentage of the travelling public are affected every day by incorrect decisions or actions by rail staff, then? 5%; 10%; 25%?

 

[Greenback]

Most of it was.

The "wah wah I deserve my bonus" whining was very tedious, as was him trying to claim the RBS bailout was great for everyone.

It can still be well written, even though it's tedious. At least it had a sense of construction about it, which is more than can be said for a lot of these open letter things.

 

[jon0844]

It was too long, yes, but quite amusing.

I think the point was well made, that people these days think they can just shout loud and change the world.

You see it at protests all the time now. Often rather well off people standing in front of the police with an expensive DSLR or video camera, trying to goad them into doing something so they can claim a victory and 'police brutality' on their blog.

I often wonder whether such people really care, or even understand, the cause and can compare themselves with those who fought for what they believed in years gone by, and actually made a difference.