Xmas Period Extra Trains Opportunity?

[matacaster]

This quote taken from Independent.

"On East Coast Trains, the big squeeze is on Saturday 27 December, with many services already sold out. Engineering work on the West Coast line means Virgin Trains will not operate to or from London Euston from 25 to 28 December, and therefore travellers are switching to the east."

Is there an opportunity here for some innovative thinking such as railtour operators running additional London to Scotland trains and possibly to other locations - with heritage sets and Diesels, even double-headed premium steam (might be too busy for that)? Perhaps St Pancras (not sure on available capacity) or maybe Marylebone or even Paddington might be the London station (other suggestions welcome). The route might be the old Midland route as far as Carlisle, then whichever northwards.

Any thoughts or better ideas, as a problem with WCML being shut and ECML full up does appear to present a problem which ougth not to be insoluble?

 

[Simon11]

There will be spare Pendos and East Coast should use more of their trains, since they will be running a Saturday service, so there should be some spare stock around.

By running steam or old diesels, you will actually cause a reduction in services due to the low speed & acceleration.

 

[Bald Rick]

St Pancras - full
Paddington - route closed (crossrail work)
Marylebone - possibly.
Finding drivers - tricky (the entire engineering train fleet is in use)

 

[Class 170101]

I thought some years back GNER ran some extra trains to Perth (and maybe Aberdeen) to cope with Christmas.

 

[TDK]

When the WCML was shut before VT used the Chilterns with 10 and even 15 car voyagers, this will maybe the solution, using heritage is a joke surely?

 

[Bald Rick]

When the WCML was shut before VT used the Chilterns with 10 and even 15 car voyagers, this will maybe the solution, using heritage is a joke surely?

Indeed that's what is happening. Roughly hourly from Birmingham intl to Euston.

 

[Class 170101]

When the WCML was shut before VT used the Chilterns with 10 and even 15 car voyagers, this will maybe the solution, using heritage is a joke surely?

VT are running Euston to Birmingham International via Chiltern.

Saturday
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...7/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=VT

Sunday
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...8/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=VT

 

[philjo]

Kings cross is also mainly closed until mid-morning on the 27th - I think they are installing the OHLE to the thameslink canal tunnels connection. some EC services are starting at Stevenage or Peterborough. GN services mainly terminate at Finsbury park with 313s into Moorgate.

 

[Muzer]

Wait, what's going on at Paddington? Looks open according to RTT...

 

[Bald Rick]

Wait, what's going on at Paddington? Looks open according to RTT...

Sorry, got that wrong, looked at RTT with wrong filters!

There is cross rail work going on though, think it might be reduced service for the morning of 27th.

 

[Suraggu]

There will be spare Pendos and East Coast should use more of their trains, since they will be running a Saturday service, so there should be some spare stock around.

By running steam or old diesels, you will actually cause a reduction in services due to the low speed & acceleration.

With what paths? EC have extremely limited paths into and out of KGX all day on Saturday and with GTR and HT/GC all squeezing in that means all paths are allocated with no room to maneuver.

 

[DarloRich]

This quote taken from Independent.



Is there an opportunity here for some innovative thinking such as railtour operators running additional London to Scotland trains and possibly to other locations - with heritage sets and Diesels, even double-headed premium steam (might be too busy for that)? Perhaps St Pancras (not sure on available capacity) or maybe Marylebone or even Paddington might be the London station (other suggestions welcome). The route might be the old Midland route as far as Carlisle, then whichever northwards.

Any thoughts or better ideas, as a problem with WCML being shut and ECML full up does appear to present a problem which ougth not to be insoluble?

Steam? Heritage? Have you been at the eggnog?

Good luck rustling up some drivers and finding train paths. There is an awful lot of work on and Christmas is the quietest time of the year to do it. Seems counter intuitive I know but figures show it is the quietest time of the year!

 

[Cherry_Picker]

It is the quietest time. The difference is that the people travelling over the Christmas period tend to be the people who, well, only ever travel over the Christmas period. The people who travel once or twice a year, and the people who won't be back on a train five days a week in January. Engineering works over Christmas make sense for so many reasons because you are doing work during a period when the people who are the lifeblood of the railway (commuters) aren't going to be affected by it.

 

[DarloRich]

It is the quietest time. The difference is that the people travelling over the Christmas period tend to be the people who, well, only ever travel over the Christmas period. The people who travel once or twice a year, and the people who won't be back on a train five days a week in January. Engineering works over Christmas make sense for so many reasons because you are doing work during a period when the people who are the lifeblood of the railway (commuters) aren't going to be affected by it.

oh I agree that it is terribly frustrating and an inconvenience for those trying to use the train at Christmas - the problem is when to do the work

 

[gordonthemoron]

I do think it a bit much for WCML closure and the work between KGX and Finsbury Park to be happening at the same time

 

[DarloRich]

I do think it a bit much for WCML closure and the work between KGX and Finsbury Park to be happening at the same time

ok (and I don’t necessarily disagree) - when will the work be done? This is the problem when else do you get such a long possession window?

 

[Class83]

It is the quietest time. The difference is that the people travelling over the Christmas period tend to be the people who, well, only ever travel over the Christmas period. The people who travel once or twice a year, and the people who won't be back on a train five days a week in January. Engineering works over Christmas make sense for so many reasons because you are doing work during a period when the people who are the lifeblood of the railway (commuters) aren't going to be affected by it.

While I agree Christmas is the quietest time of year on commuter routes is that also true on the ECML and WCML?

 

[yorksrob]

It is the quietest time. The difference is that the people travelling over the Christmas period tend to be the people who, well, only ever travel over the Christmas period. The people who travel once or twice a year, and the people who won't be back on a train five days a week in January.

Although that could be because every time they've tried to travel, it's been so much of a tribulation due to engineering works, it's put them off from travelling at other times !

 

[Tom B]

It should be remembered that not every commuter books two weeks off and many will be working throughout the period - although not ones who have power and leverage!

I have pre-booked tickets for the 27th, which I expect to be a difficult journey. I'm told the EC timetable has an hour to get from Alexandra Palace to King's Cross, although without stopping (therefore delaying passengers who could get home much quicker by alighting at these stations and catching a bus).

 

[Class 170101]

Whilst I agree not everyone is able to take between Christmas and New Year off from work, a large majority will. Saturday 27th will be quiet for travel with most travelling back on the Sunday. Christmas Eve will be busy and I doubt East Coast have run enough trains to Scotland to cope with demand.

 

[30907]

It should be remembered that not every commuter books two weeks off and many will be working throughout the period - although not ones who have power and leverage!

I have pre-booked tickets for the 27th, which I expect to be a difficult journey. I'm told the EC timetable has an hour to get from Alexandra Palace to King's Cross, although without stopping (therefore delaying passengers who could get home much quicker by alighting at these stations and catching a bus).

Of course not everyone books the fortnight off (I'm taking 1 day plus public holidays), but London commuter traffic has been drastically reduced for many years.

As to leisure travellers, I wouldn't expect the 27th to be as busy as the 28th (including road traffic). At first glance, 90 minutes PBO-KGX is standard that day, which is about 30 minutes longer than normal southbound. The delay northbound is 20 minutes, an trains are running at similar frequency to a normal Saturday afternoon.

 

[yorksrob]

It's a shame no one can run a relief service up the Midland Mainline and Settle/Carlisle !

Yeah, it would be slower, but if the tickets were relatively cheap, you could serve some of the leisure market.

 

[Bald Rick]

While I agree Christmas is the quietest time of year on commuter routes is that also true on the ECML and WCML?

Yes.

a) because they are predominantly commuter railways
b) because a notable portion of the other passengers are on business, and it is a quieter time for the business market. Indeed almost non existent.

 

[Greenback]

Whilst I agree not everyone is able to take between Christmas and New Year off from work, a large majority will. Saturday 27th will be quiet for travel with most travelling back on the Sunday.

I agree. More people will need to be somewhere for the Monday morning. I've travelled a few times on the 27th when it was on a Wednesday or other weekday, and trains have been pretty quiet then by weekday standards. I think a Saturday will be even quieter.

Of course not everyone books the fortnight off (I'm taking 1 day plus public holidays), but London commuter traffic has been drastically reduced for many years.

There will be very little business travel on 27th as well. Those travelling will porbably comprise a few people who have to go somewhere in connection with their work, and a few people like Mrs Greenback and I in the past, who want to have a few days away for Twixmas.

a) because they are predominantly commuter railways
b) because a notable portion of the other passengers are on business, and it is a quieter time for the business market. Indeed almost non existent.

Indeed. And for people like me and the missus, if there's significant engineering work we'll reconsider our destination and probably go somewhere else or take an alternative route if possible. I suspect many optional travellers simply won't use the East Coast line.

 

[PHILIPE]

A couple of years ago, Cross Country decided to reduce their service between Xmas and New Year. For example trains north from Bristol reduced from half-hourly to hourly. The outcome - passengers struggling to get onto those that did run. They learnt a lesson that was not repeated.

 

[Greenback]

I don't think anyone is saying that the entire period between Christmas and New Year is going to see reduced demand. I personally don't see the 26th as being a peak travel day this year.

 

[Suraggu]

Of course not everyone books the fortnight off (I'm taking 1 day plus public holidays), but London commuter traffic has been drastically reduced for many years.

As to leisure travellers, I wouldn't expect the 27th to be as busy as the 28th (including road traffic). At first glance, 90 minutes PBO-KGX is standard that day, which is about 30 minutes longer than normal southbound. The delay northbound is 20 minutes, an trains are running at similar frequency to a normal Saturday afternoon.

All up trains have to cross over/reverse after Finsbury park from the Up to the Down. Single line working KGX -Finsbury Park from 1000 27/12 till 29/12

 

[Class 170101]

All up trains have to cross over/reverse after Finsbury park from the Up to the Down. Single line working KGX -Finsbury Park from 1000 27/12 till 29/12

Single Line working only on the Saturday.

The Slower running times on the Sunday appear to be two track railway for part of the way between London and Peterborough. GN are in Kings Cross on the Sunday unlike the Saturday where they are terminating at Finsbury Park so Single Line Working doesn't seem to be happening at Kings Cross on the Sunday.

 

[Suraggu]

Single Line working only on the Saturday.

The Slower running times on the Sunday appear to be two track railway for part of the way between London and Peterborough. GN are in Kings Cross on the Sunday unlike the Saturday where they are terminating at Finsbury Park so Single Line Working doesn't seem to be happening at Kings Cross on the Sunday.

Aye I didn't look correctly at the amended workings silly me.

To the other post about Saturday 27th being quiet. East Coast has most trains fully booked on reserved seats plus the sheer number of walk on fares I am not surprised other TOCS aka Virgin have told people to try and travel on another day.

 

[Flamingo]

This quote taken from Independent.



Is there an opportunity here for some innovative thinking such as railtour operators running additional London to Scotland trains and possibly to other locations - with heritage sets and Diesels, even double-headed premium steam (might be too busy for that)? Perhaps St Pancras (not sure on available capacity) or maybe Marylebone or even Paddington might be the London station (other suggestions welcome). The route might be the old Midland route as far as Carlisle, then whichever northwards.

Any thoughts or better ideas, as a problem with WCML being shut and ECML full up does appear to present a problem which ougth not to be insoluble?

It's an opportunity for an enterprising coach company...