(my opinion) are we Utilizing the railways around Swansea.

[adamt958]

I was thinking about the current Swansea station and the lack of Local services (Valley Line Services) that run to/From Swansea. In my own opinion, I think in todays Climate, Swansea Victoria which was closed during the sixties was better located for Swansea than the current station at High Street is. But that is not an issue.

For example.
1. potentially extending some of the valley lines services to Swansea?, I know there is an issue with available slots between Bridgend-Cardiff on the SWML. so perhaps re-routing them via the VOG. Only calling at say... Barry Docks, Barry, Rhoose & Llantwit Major before joining the SWML at Bridgend and continuing on to Swansea via Pyle, Port Talbot etc...

2. A Maesteg - Swansea service via the freight only line past park slip from Tondu. (with A new station at Kenfig Hill). overall calling at...
Swansea, Llansamlet, Skewen, Neath, Briton Ferry, Baglan, Port Talbot Parkway, Kenfig Hill, Tondu, Garth, Maesteg Ewenny Road and Maesteg.


3. Could there ever be a case for Passenger services running along the lines in Ollnwyn and Resolven in the Neath Valley to say Llanelli via the SDL?, (They Would not call into Swansea, but could potentially have a shuttle bus service from a new station on the site of where Neath Rivirside station was(Neath Low Level)) I have had a look at some of the track formations and its become aware that it would require a reverse (at a potentially new station at Fabian Way near the Amazon Distribuation Centre and Port of Swansea) to join the SDL. so the services would say, from Llanelli to call at: Llanelli, Bynea, Llengennech, All New Swansea District line stations, E.G. Morriston Parkway ETC.., Fabian Way (for Amazon Distribuation Centre), Neath (Low Level - Formerly Riverside), Cadoxton (Neath), Aberdulais & Cilfrew, Crynant, Seven Sisters & possibly Ollnwyn (would also serve the village of Dyffren Cellwen)

for services from Llanelli to Resolven.. Llanelli, Bynea, Llengennech, (all SDL stations), Neath (Low Level), Tonna & Resolven.

4. Probobally one spoken about a lot in the past was Passenger Services along the Swansea District Line. hence why I haven't gone into detail here.

5. Opening of a New station at Manselton/Cwmbwrla (At the bridge over the A438) AND The Re-Opening of Cockett Station. Im saying this because the new station would serve a largely populated area as well as the retail units along carmarthen road and with the re-opepning of Cockett this station is in an Area of the city which is Isolated by rail, yet the West Wales line runs straight through the centre of Cockett with the station still largley intact.


I know these are pretty wild suggestions, but at the moment, the Swansea area has no local railway services bar a two hourly swanline service.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I suppose that you can console yourself that the electrification of the main line from London is now planned to extend to Swansea as some sort of mollification for the more localised shortcomings that you have been at pains to detail most fully.

Incidentally, I visited Swansea earlier this year and did like the modern bus station with its access into the retail shopping experiance.

 

[anthony263]

The new Swansea bus station is indeed brilliant one oif the best I have been too. The greggs outlet in the bus station I have heard is very profitable.

As for the local lines out of Swansea a station at Cockett would be a good iea in theory however practiculary ity might be difficult since it is on a steep bank and dmu's are likely to struggle pulling away when heading westbound towards Carmarthen.

Now if the electrification were to be extended beyond Swansea to west wales then emu's would not have so much of an issue.

The SDL could do with a local passenger service whether just a hourly shuttle between Llanelli and Port Talbot or perhaps a fast service from west wales to Cardiff which by passes Swansea high street. New stations have long be proposed at Grovesend nr Pontardulais, Morriston & Llandarcy to serve those and surrounding areas
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
A Maesteg to Swansea service I am not too sure about especially as we have a debate about this subject back in 2012/2013 and even with linespeed improvements the X3 bus service from Maesteg will still be much quicker.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Lots of options , if there was money.

Cockett station would be an easy fix - (apart from slowing passing services down) - I gather there was little support for it from the decision makers - a bit close into Swansea - but may still produce something.

I suspect the Onllwyn / Resolven etc options are sunk by the local road network - by any accounts- the whole of Neath and the Swansea approaches were so heavily targetted by road building in the 1960's - 1970's that any rail options were discounted then - and probably are now.

The biggest chances were lost IMHO - when the LNWR line to Pontardulais went - along with the iconic Mumbles tram - which would have made a good base for an LRT.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Decimated local network around Swansea apart from the SWML even though catchment is near 600,000 in City and county of Swansea and adjacent bits of Carmathenshire, Powys, Neath Port Talbot.

The Swansea Valley line up to Ystradgynlias through Pontardawe is probably the largest valley catchment but appears to be lost under a bypass road for miles, the before mentioned southern end of the LNWR line would come from Gorsenion a population of c15,000 and serve the SW suburbs of Swansea. The line from Swansea Docks through Neath Riverside and up the Neath valley is intact however the bloody A465 dual carriageway severs the trackbed a mile or two short of Glyn Neath you can see the rail bridge over the River Neath intact and close to the road but theirs no headroom for the rail line under the road. Seven Sisters way up to Coelbren Jnc is intact but only serves small villages.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Decimated local network around Swansea apart from the SWML even though catchment is near 600,000 in City and county of Swansea and adjacent bits of Carmathenshire, Powys, Neath Port Talbot.

The Swansea Valley line up to Ystradgynlias through Pontardawe is probably the largest valley catchment but appears to be lost under a bypass road for miles, the before mentioned southern end of the LNWR line would come from Gorsenion a population of c15,000 and serve the SW suburbs of Swansea. The line from Swansea Docks through Neath Riverside and up the Neath valley is intact however the bloody A465 dual carriageway severs the trackbed a mile or two short of Glyn Neath you can see the rail bridge over the River Neath intact and close to the road but theirs no headroom for the rail line under the road. Seven Sisters way up to Coelbren Jnc is intact but only serves small villages.

Summed up very nicely , as ever , Gareth

 

[Gareth Marston]

Summed up very nicely , as ever , Gareth

There's probably a good light rail network from Pontarddulais /Mumbles/ SA1/ Jersey Marine/Neath and up past the Enterprise Park toward Pontardawe.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

There's probably a good light rail network from Pontarddulais /Mumbles/ SA1/ Jersey Marine/Neath and up past the Enterprise Park toward Pontardawe.

Maybe the Swansea Tramways & Improvements Company (RIP in the 1930's) can be re-born. A splendid name.

The profits were re-invested for social purposes.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The Swansea and Mumbles Railway came to mind, but what usable line formation parts of it are still viable I do not know, but I am sure there are those on this thread with good local knowledge who can throw light on the matter.

 

[anthony263]

Truth be told the trackbed alonbg the seafront from Swansea down to mumbles has mostly been converted to a cycle way and don't forget there is still a lot of infrastructure put in place for the Swansea metro which could be used

 

[Greenback]

There would be many objections from walkers and cyclist if there was ever a serious proposal to put the rails back between Swansea and Mumbles, or up the Clyne Valley to Gowerton.

But Gareth is right that it could form the basis of a light rail network linking those two at one end with the Swansea Valley, SA1, Jersey Marine and Neath at the other. This will provide a link between the two campuses of Swansea University, as will as providing good links from Morriston to the Liberty Stadium and down to the city centre.

It's time that Swansea and the Swansea Bay area showed some ambition!

With regard to the OP, the only possibility I can see happening is reopening Cockett. The lack of car parking hinders the plans, and I think that Loughor would be more of a priority, but it's more viable than the other ideas in my view.

 

[swcovas]

I think the best that can be hoped for in the area is greater utilisation of the SDL. Even a service down the Neath Valley would end up terminating at an isolted Swansea Docks. Neath Riverside is also badly located within the town. Reopening part of the Pontardulais-Swansea Victoria line from the SDL Gowerton is not really beyond the realms of possibility bringing Gorsenion back into the network. Can't see it happen any time soon though!

 

[Greenback]

The geography and the way that the railways developed in the area are a big hindrance to reopening lines or reintroducing passenger services. swcovas is right about the Neath Valley, as with many of the valleys the motivation and the profit lay in getting minerals down to the sea.

The Gorseinon case is similar. Were a line ever to be rebuilt to the town, the natural traffic flow would be to Swansea, but the District line is a rather circuitous way of getting there. A light rail link down the Clyne Valley to the seafront at Swansea may be the best that can be done.

 

[swcovas]

The geography and the way that the railways developed in the area are a big hindrance to reopening lines or reintroducing passenger services. swcovas is right about the Neath Valley, as with many of the valleys the motivation and the profit lay in getting minerals down to the sea.

The Gorseinon case is similar. Were a line ever to be rebuilt to the town, the natural traffic flow would be to Swansea, but the District line is a rather circuitous way of getting there. A light rail link down the Clyne Valley to the seafront at Swansea may be the best that can be done.

Actually I was thinking of relaying the line from the SDL to Gorsenion using the spur that was put in from the SDL to the Pontardulais-Swansea Victoria line in late 60s then on from Gorsenion to Gowerton and on to the West Wales main line into Swansea. Divert HOWL trains this way. Has been mooted before though can't see it happening unless there's massive change in the economic climate. A dream like so much else.

 

[Greenback]

I see. I'll be honest and say I don't dislike the idea, but it would mean diverting the trains away from my town!

 

[swcovas]

I see. I'll be honest and say I don't dislike the idea, but it would mean diverting the trains away from my town!

Yea, can see that it wouldn't go down too well in Llanelli! However, even though I'm not THAT old I don't think I'm going to see it in my lifetime!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

The geography and the way that the railways developed in the area are a big hindrance to reopening lines or reintroducing passenger services. swcovas is right about the Neath Valley, as with many of the valleys the motivation and the profit lay in getting minerals down to the sea.

The Gorseinon case is similar. Were a line ever to be rebuilt to the town, the natural traffic flow would be to Swansea, but the District line is a rather circuitous way of getting there. A light rail link down the Clyne Valley to the seafront at Swansea may be the best that can be done.

Good comments there - now we need some vision on rail for Swansea / Neath and Llanelli - sorry - "Tinopolis" .....not a bad idea though to kick off some of these ideas locally - one never knows - after all , look at some of the reopenings elsewhere in the UK for lesser deserving , less populated ideas. When I finally retire - happy to use my latent planning skills

 

[HowardGWR]

Just as an aside, the last time I went up to Cockett, there was a forest of japanese knotweed all the way up. That'll take some shifting.

It seems to me that Swansea was totally taken over by the car and none of the central facilities lauded by other correspondents earlier here, are handy from the station, unless you take a bus. I assume there are shuttle buses and it could be a good idea to make them a free 'round the town' service.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Swansea "retail" moved away from High Street Station in the late 1960's - 1970's - basically sold out to the car.

Previous commentaries on the sad state of the once prime shopping centre adjacent to the station reinforce this view. However , things can move around - given time, planning and money of course.

 

[swcovas]

Swansea "retail" moved away from High Street Station in the late 1960's - 1970's - basically sold out to the car.

Previous commentaries on the sad state of the once prime shopping centre adjacent to the station reinforce this view. However , things can move around - given time, planning and money of course.

Ironic isn't it that when Swansea Victoria closed in 64 it was at the naff end of town. Nowadays that's where most of the buzz and attractions are. Conversely step out of High St station today and walking down the High St itself is a pretty miserable introduction to Wales' second city!

 

[Envoy]

I wonder how people would react if the Heart of Wales trains were diverted at Pontarrdulais to the Swansea District Line? (Pontarddulais to Llanelli could be left to the buses). So, a new station at Morriston (with a bus link into central Swansea as well as a P & R near the M4. Then, another new station at the new Coed Darcy urban village - the line goes right through the site. Finally, the train would join the mainline at Port Talbot for connections to/from the east or even send the HOW trains all the way to Cardiff (as happens now for some services).

One of the disincentives for getting people to do a 'circular' day trip rail tour of Southern Wales via the main line, HOW & Marches is the time it takes. By cutting out Swansea & Llanelli, about 50 minutes could be skimmed off the trip. In all probability, people in Ammanford, Llandeilo & Llandovery would more likely make journeys to Cardiff by train if the shorter direct route were adopted. As things stand at the moment, the M4 is the clear winner for such a journey. People from the aforementioned towns are also unlikely to travel by rail to /from Swansea due to the lengthy time it takes via Llanelli v going by the more direct road routes. So, the way I see it, tourists staying in say Cardiff would be more likely to make the trip on the HOW and the local populous at the southern end of the line would be more likely to use the trains if the more direct District Line was used for services to/from the east. The only losers are those trying to reach Llanelli form the HOW and the loss of HOW trains linking Llanelli with Swansea.

http://www.coeddarcy.co.uk

 

[HowardGWR]

Ironic isn't it that when Swansea Victoria closed in 64 it was at the naff end of town. Nowadays that's where most of the buzz and attractions are. Conversely step out of High St station today and walking down the High St itself is a pretty miserable introduction to Wales' second city!

I imagine the reason is clear enough. The lower and dock area would have been the cheapest to buy up and redevelop, while affording the space for huge car parks, as @ChiefPlanner has indicated. Having written that, this thread is about local train services to Swansea, and a longer distance traveller or one commuting to, say, Cardiff, would be less concerned about where the 'comparison shops' are in relation to the station.

Contrast this with Exeter Central, whose position, adjacent to the comparison shopping centre, has led to the rejuvenation and expansion of the local railways, to the benefit of both. Exeter could have been left with just St Davids, according to Beeching type logic, in which case it would now have the same local rail status as High St Swansea.

 

[Greenback]

Just as an aside, the last time I went up to Cockett, there was a forest of japanese knotweed all the way up. That'll take some shifting.

Knotweed is the curse of Swansea. I had an infestation in my garden when I lived there!

It seems to me that Swansea was totally taken over by the car and none of the central facilities lauded by other correspondents earlier here, are handy from the station, unless you take a bus. I assume there are shuttle buses and it could be a good idea to make them a free 'round the town' service.

I think it's true that Swansea was taken over by the car. The way I see it, it all stems form the rebuilding plans that were drawn up following the centre in February 1941. The plans were heavily influenced by European grand boulevards, and the idea was for a ring of pleasant, tree lined dual carriageways to run around the periphery of the CBD. This was a t a time when there were still an awful lot of railway lines around the town, and long before everyone aspired to own their own car.

Once the 1960's came, and people started to own cars, the infrastructure that was there plus the large amount of open spaces that still hadn't been redeveloped following the bombing, meant that it was easy to drive into the town and park your car. Bus usage declined, local rail services were withdrawn, and by 1965, or the late 1960's at the very least, it was difficult if not impossible to access Swansea by rail from many of the surrounding areas.

There won't be a free bus. This is Swansea we're talking about. It's the graveyard of ambition!

Swansea "retail" moved away from High Street Station in the late 1960's - 1970's - basically sold out to the car.

Previous commentaries on the sad state of the once prime shopping centre adjacent to the station reinforce this view. However , things can move around - given time, planning and money of course.

The city centre has moved south. When I was a kid int he early 1970's I remember we still went shopping in High Street - I clearly remember WH Smiths there!

The final nail in the coffin of High Street was the opening of the Quadrant shopping centre on land that had previously mostly been used for car parking. Woolworths struggled on for a few more years, and I think the Post Office lasted until the late 1980's.

Ironic isn't it that when Swansea Victoria closed in 64 it was at the naff end of town. Nowadays that's where most of the buzz and attractions are. Conversely step out of High St station today and walking down the High St itself is a pretty miserable introduction to Wales' second city!

Absolutely right. The station is now quite pleasant, but when they step outside, a stranger is likely to want to turn around and go back to wherever they came from, or at least seek refuge in the Grand Hotel!

I wonder how people would react if the Heart of Wales trains were diverted at Pontarrdulais to the Swansea District Line? (Pontarddulais to Llanelli could be left to the buses). So, a new station at Morriston (with a bus link into central Swansea as well as a P & R near the M4. Then, another new station at the new Coed Darcy urban village - the line goes right through the site. Finally, the train would join the mainline at Port Talbot for connections to/from the east or even send the HOW trains all the way to Cardiff (as happens now for some services).

I wouldn't be too keen on the idea. There are quite a few people on the southern half of the line that want to go to Swansea, not Port Talbot or somewhere east. Adding a handful of trains to the SDL isn;t going to attract people in Morriston away from the M4, if you want to do that you need to give the SDL a more frequent service.

So, as I see it, it disadvantage more people than it advantages. Plus, from a personal point of view, there'd be less trains serving Llanelli, and my fried Mrs Roberts of Llangennech would have to make a very long bus journey to get to the shops in Swansea!

One of the disincentives for getting people to do a 'circular' day trip rail tour of Southern Wales via the main line, HOW & Marches is the time it takes. By cutting out Swansea & Llanelli, about 50 minutes could be skimmed off the trip.

But that's where a lot of the market is!

In all probability, people in Ammanford, Llandeilo & Llandovery would more likely make journeys to Cardiff by train if the shorter direct route were adopted. As things stand at the moment, the M4 is the clear winner for such a journey. People from the aforementioned towns are also unlikely to travel by rail to /from Swansea due to the lengthy time it takes via Llanelli v going by the more direct road routes.

How many people living int he areas you mentioned would be willing to drive to a station, park up and catch a train to Cardiff even if the journey was slower? How many would put up with the infrequent service? The lack of flexibility of relying on public transport?

In my view, not a lot. There will be some, but is it worth the cost of losing some passengers who currently use rail to get where they want to go? I don't think so, and I'm confident that if any research was done to this end it would say the same.

 

[Envoy]

Greenback - I hear that not many people want to go to Llanelli & those that do, tend to drive to the out of town retail park at Trostre. Under my idea for diverting HOW trains via the Swansea District Line, a new station at Morriston could easily be served by buses taking people who have come off the HOW trains to Swansea centre or the nearby Morriston Hospital. This would surely be a quicker way of getting from say Llandeilo to Swansea centre than going all the way on the present train route via Llanelli?

Speaking of Llanelli, do we still have a situation where practically no buses meet trains at the station for onward transportation into the hinterland? Llanelli is the most convenient jumping off point to leave trains from the east to reach the National Botanic Garden. I bet no buses run from Llanelli station to the Botanic Garden serving Llannon, Tumble, Drefach & Porthyrhyd en-route before perhaps continuing to Carmarthen - with a another link to the rail system?

It is a great shame that Swansea has been left to decline. All that horrible 1950 - 60's architecture should have gone long ago. Ideally, they should have done a cut & cover tunnel for the main road - near the prison. Then they could have built a boulevard with retailing stretching all the way down to the Bay. Swansea has a fabulous position but I would not advise anyone to bother to go to Swansea centre. I hear that a lot of people in the area head off east to Cardiff for major shopping jaunts.

PS. If anybody wishes to see how awful Swansea looks - go on Google Earth and drag the little yellow man down to the outside of the station and then head south down the High Street.

 

[swcovas]

Greenback - I hear that not many people want to go to Llanelli & those that do, tend to drive to the out of town retail park at Trostre. Under my idea for diverting HOW trains via the Swansea District Line, a new station at Morriston could easily be served by buses taking people who have come off the HOW trains to Swansea centre or the nearby Morriston Hospital. This would surely be a quicker way of getting from say Llandeilo to Swansea centre than going all the way on the present train route via Llanelli?

Speaking of Llanelli, do we still have a situation where practically no buses meet trains at the station for onward transportation into the hinterland? Llanelli is the most convenient jumping off point to leave trains from the east to reach the National Botanic Garden. I bet no buses run from Llanelli station to the Botanic Garden serving Llannon, Tumble, Drefach & Porthyrhyd en-route before perhaps continuing to Carmarthen - with a another link to the rail system?

It is a great shame that Swansea has been left to decline. All that horrible 1950 - 60's architecture should have gone long ago. Ideally, they should have done a cut & cover tunnel for the main road - near the prison. Then they could have built a boulevard with retailing stretching all the way down to the Bay. Swansea has a fabulous position but I would not advise anyone to bother to go to Swansea centre. I hear that a lot of people in the area head off east to Cardiff for major shopping jaunts.

PS. If anybody wishes to see how awful Swansea looks - go on Google Earth and drag the little yellow man down to the outside of the station and then head south down the High Street.

The natural traffic flow from Llandovery, Llandeilo, Ammanford on the southern end of the HOWL is definitely Swansea and to divert trains on to Port Talbot and Cardiff would, I think, be detrimental.

My idea/thought mentioned in post above (not original I hasten to add!) Is to divert trains from the HOWL on to the SDL then relaying the old Swansea Victoria line south through Gorsenion and onto the West Wales main line at Gowerton and on to Swansea. Its not insurmountable. Although there are frequent buses from Ammanford with connections from Llandeilo for most of the day the train is still quicker even via Llanelli. Running via SDL and Gorsenion would probably mean a journey time from Llandeilo to Swansea of about 45 minutes instead of the current hour and bring Gorsenion, some would the largest town in Wales without a station, back into the network. Downside? No trains to Llangennech and Bynea and more difficult access from Llanelli on to the HOWL.

As mentioned on another thread I think that greater use of the SDL is going to centre on diversion of some West Wales trains to run to and from Cardiff to create faster journey times from Carmarthen etc to compete with the M4.

 

[Greenback]

Greenback - I hear that not many people want to go to Llanelli & those that do, tend to drive to the out of town retail park at Trostre. Under my idea for diverting HOW trains via the Swansea District Line, a new station at Morriston could easily be served by buses taking people who have come off the HOW trains to Swansea centre or the nearby Morriston Hospital. This would surely be a quicker way of getting from say Llandeilo to Swansea centre than going all the way on the present train route via Llanelli?

It's not about Llanelli as swcovas has identified, though there are some who do travel to and from there. Even if it is marginally, you are adding inconvenience by making people transfer between train and bus. This has proved to be a disincentive to rail travel.

I also have to ask what would be the point of having a slightly quicker journey time if it were still slower than the car or, in the case of Llandeilo/Ammanford to Swansea, a direct bus?

Speaking of Llanelli, do we still have a situation where practically no buses meet trains at the station for onward transportation into the hinterland? Llanelli is the most convenient jumping off point to leave trains from the east to reach the National Botanic Garden. I bet no buses run from Llanelli station to the Botanic Garden serving Llannon, Tumble, Drefach & Porthyrhyd en-route before perhaps continuing to Carmarthen - with a another link to the rail system?

Very few buses serve the railways station, and I don't know of any buses that run from anywhere in Llanelli to the National botanic Gardens

It is a great shame that Swansea has been left to decline. All that horrible 1950 - 60's architecture should have gone long ago. Ideally, they should have done a cut & cover tunnel for the main road - near the prison. Then they could have built a boulevard with retailing stretching all the way down to the Bay. Swansea has a fabulous position but I would not advise anyone to bother to go to Swansea centre. I hear that a lot of people in the area head off east to Cardiff for major shopping jaunts.

A cut and cover tunnel has been talked about many times over many years now, but it has never happened and probably never will. (We're back to the graveyard of ambition bit again). A lot of my family go to Cardiff for the shopping there, at least at this time of year, but mostly they shop in and around Swansea or Llanelli (many to the west of Swansea prefer Trostre Retail Park to Fforestfach).

The problem with the development of Swansea is that the money and attention has recently gone to Wind St and the former docks areas, like the Marina and SA1. Prior to that it went to the Quadrant,. The more traditional shopping areas, like High St, The Kingsway, Oxford St and the nearby roads have largely been left to rot.

PS. If anybody wishes to see how awful Swansea looks - go on Google Earth and drag the little yellow man down to the outside of the station and then head south down the High Street.

It's nowhere near as bad as actually walking down it, as you can't hear or smell anything you see on the screen!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The natural traffic flow from Llandovery, Llandeilo, Ammanford on the southern end of the HOWL is definitely Swansea and to divert trains on to Port Talbot and Cardiff would, I think, be detrimental.

I agree. There is very little traffic that actually changes between HoWL trains and Cardiff services at Swansea.

My idea/thought mentioned in post above (not original I hasten to add!) Is to divert trains from the HOWL on to the SDL then relaying the old Swansea Victoria line south through Gorsenion and onto the West Wales main line at Gowerton and on to Swansea. Its not insurmountable. Although there are frequent buses from Ammanford with connections from Llandeilo for most of the day the train is still quicker even via Llanelli. Running via SDL and Gorsenion would probably mean a journey time from Llandeilo to Swansea of about 45 minutes instead of the current hour and bring Gorsenion, some would the largest town in Wales without a station, back into the network. Downside? No trains to Llangennech and Bynea and more difficult access from Llanelli on to the HOWL.

This proposal definitely has more advantages and less disadvantages than sending HoW trains to Port Talbot.

As mentioned on another thread I think that greater use of the SDL is going to centre on diversion of some West Wales trains to run to and from Cardiff to create faster journey times from Carmarthen etc to compete with the M4.

I'm not 100% convinced that SDL services will compete successfully with the M4. I am convinced that HoW services shouldn't be sent that way, unless it;s to reach Gorseinon and Gowerton.

Realistically, the chances of either happening in the foreseeable future is pretty slim.

 

[Envoy]

Interesting comments. I like the idea of re-building the direct line via Gorseinon to join the main line and thus shorten the journey into Swansea from the HOW.

 

[Greenback]

I think that this should have been done instead of rerouting the trains into Llanelli in the first place. The track remained to Gorseinon from the SDL for a number of years after the line was closed to passenger services, all that was needed was a spur to the main line at Gowerton to complete the picture.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I think that this should have been done instead of rerouting the trains into Llanelli in the first place. The track remained to Gorseinon from the SDL for a number of years after the line was closed to passenger services, all that was needed was a spur to the main line at Gowerton to complete the picture.

Excellent comments here (as ever) - though any 1960's planning would have been stymied by the existing loadings pre closure - the Pontardulais to Swansea via Gowerton locals were often one coach + loco , with a mere handfull of passengers, apart from the school trains.

However - the 21stC realities are different - but one can only dream and hope.

 

[Greenback]

Excellent comments here (as ever) - though any 1960's planning would have been stymied by the existing loadings pre closure - the Pontardulais to Swansea via Gowerton locals were often one coach + loco , with a mere handfull of passengers, apart from the school trains.

However - the 21stC realities are different - but one can only dream and hope.

That's so true, but I was surprised to see how infrequent the local trains were in the period before closure of the Pontardulais to Swansea section. I'm sure that would have helped to suppress demand. Of course, the stations at Killay and Dunvant weren't ideally situated for the respective villages, but in common with many lines and services int hose days, things seemed to be run on historical lines, more or less, following what had always gone before, and with little attempt to adapt to changing times.

Unless the book I got the timetables from missed that out!