Summerston to Glasgow BR- valid via Anniesland?

[Paule23]

Hello all

I have a friend who has a season ticket from Summerston to Glasgow Queen Street/Central. She has just been stopped from travelling via Anniesland to Glasgow Central and I'd like some views whether this was right or not.

From this thread http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=87802 there is an easement which prevents travel from Summerston to Glasgow Aueen Street via Anniesland, but this does not apply to journeys to Glasgow Central.

As her season ticket names both Glasgow Central and Glasgow Queen Street as the destination, is travelling via Anniesland to Central permitted? The Scotrail website indicates this is ok as this route comes up in the journey planner.

Any thoughts/comments would be appreciated.
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Any ideas?

 

[bb21]

I think it is valid, but the problem your friend may face is that if this comes to ScotRail's attention they will probably just add another negative easement in (or reword the existing one to include both stations).

 

[Edmondson]

How could the season ticket holder make the journey from Summerston to Glasgow Central if they couldn't travel via Anniesland?

 

[yorkie]

It is valid, but I agree that Scotrail are obviously trying to be sneaky with this ticket with the dubiously enforceable 'negative easement' and they may try to introduce another one to cover Glasgow Central.

But if you have a good MP or MSP who would back you up, then it may be a fight worth having, if Scotrail want a fight, as it's about time we stood up to these potentially illegal 'negative easements'. Feel free to PM me if you wish to discuss.

 

[kieron]

I think it is valid, but the problem your friend may face is that if this comes to ScotRail's attention they will probably just add another negative easement in (or reword the existing one to include both stations).

I'm not sure such an easement would have much effect on what is the shortest and fastest route between the two stations.

If there's more to this issue than a member of Scotrail staff making up a rule on the spot, the problem for Scotrail could be that the Cen/Qst price doesn't fit with the prices to other inner city stations. If they could split the Cen/Qst tickets up on this line and price the Summerston-Central fare to match the Summerston-Anderston one, they'd probably be happy. All season tickets in Scotland are regulated, so they'd have to decide where they want to set the price for each.

Paule23's friend could try printing off an itinerary from a web site. I don't think anywhere gives itineraries for season tickets, but NRE are happy enough to suggest a return ticket by either route.

How could the season ticket holder make the journey from Summerston to Glasgow Central if they couldn't travel via Anniesland?

Train as far as Queen Street followed by bus/subway/walk to Central, I imagine. I don't know if that ticket would be accepted on the bus or subway, though.

 

[bb21]

I'm not sure such an easement would have much effect on what is the shortest and fastest route between the two stations.

The shortest route from Summerston to "Glasgow Cen/Qst" is a debatable subject to say the least and I was deliberately trying to avoid bringing it up unnecessarily.

 

[Haywain]

I think that the problem here is that "Glasgow Cen/QSt" should be viewed in the same way as "London Terminals" in that it doesn't mean that the ticket is necessarily valid to both. Some tickets may be, but not all will be.

 

[John @ home]

When debating which stations are "appropriate" for travel to a station within a station group (for ticketing purposes), I find it helpful to reverse the journey and to calculate the validity from the station within the station group.

A passenger who arrives at Glasgow Central and asks for a ticket to Summerston has a right to travel by the shortest route by rail. According to the Network Rail timetable, the shortest route from Glasgow Central to Summerston is 5.75 miles: Glasgow Central 0, Anderston 0.5, Exhibition Centre (Glasgw) 1, Partick 2.25, Hyndland 2.75, Anniesland 3.75, Kelvindale 4.5, Maryhill 5.25, Summerston 5.75. See www.bukitlawang.com/routes/routes.aspx.

This is confirmed by the journey planners, which offer a £2.20 Anytime Day Single GLASGOW CEN/QST to SUMMERSTON Route ANY PERMITTED fare with two journey opportunities per hour, valid tomorrow for example on 0728 Glasgow Central - 0741 Anniesland 0751 - Summerston 0757 (search for GLC to SUM via EXG).

In my opinion, a ticket from Summerston to Glasgow Central has the same route validity.

 

[yorkie]

I concur with John @ Home.

But anyone who is of the contrasting opinion that the shortest route is calculated instead to Queen Street, would also reach the conclusion (though by a different method) that the ticket is valid to Central via Anniesland, as this route is considerably less than 3 miles longer, thus it's valid by the '3 mile rule'.

Either way, it's definitely valid into Central via Anniesland at the present time.

But if Scotrail want to stop people travelling into Central by introducing a 'negative easement' then that's where the fun & games begin. In my opinion it's the shortest route and therefore not subject to negative easements, furthermore negative easements appear to have never been ratified by the Regulator, so it's questionable whether they are enforceable at all, but that's a whole new topic (see other threads!)

 

[John @ home]

In my opinion it's the shortest route and therefore not subject to negative easements

In addition, it has been reported that earlier this year DfT refused a request by a TOC or TOCs to disallow the shortest route as a permitted route between two stations in Yorkshire.

But it is not clear to me whether DfT or Transport Scotland is the current regulator for routeing matters between two stations in Scotland.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Negative easements aren't supposed to be used to block the shortest route as I understand it. They could block it by adding a specified route to the fares, though.

 

[Merseysider]

Negative easements aren't supposed to be used to block the shortest route as I understand it. They could block it by adding a specified route to the fares, though.

Funny you say that, the Birmingham thread is an example of exactly that happening.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Funny you say that, the Birmingham thread is an example of exactly that happening.

I'd say generally it's best that route restrictions, particularly if they block a route that is an obvious one to take, are done via the ticketing system, as there can be no confusion for passengers then.

Neil

 

[yorkie]

I'd say generally it's best that route restrictions, particularly if they block a route that is an obvious one to take, are done via the ticketing system, as there can be no confusion for passengers then.

Neil

There should always be an "Any Permitted" fare though (my opinion, and the opinion of some others too, including some people in a position to, hopefully, do something about it...)

Also any such changes also require the permission of the Regulator. However there is evidence that some TOCs do what they want regardless.