Bi Directional running in the core... & other GTR problems

[FlippyFF]

I arrived at Blackfriars around 12:40 to see a 377/5 in platform 1 and another southbound train (four car 319) heading into the station but it went into platform 2 - that was my first clue that something was amiss. I was directed to platform 1 to board the 377/5 for St Pancras but by the time I got over to P1 the 377/5 was departing. Having no clue when the next northbound train would be due, I took an alternative route to St Pancras.

 

[samuelmorris]

I'm going to have to keep a close eye on this sort of situation in the coming weeks - I'm eyeing up use of TL from Blackfriars - St Pancras as 'disabled-friendly' route to get to Kings Cross from Liverpool Street, in that direction. I understand it's a massive detour but the only suitable alternative route I've found so far (Stratford -> Green Park) is similarly massive, and even then is no guarantee of being step-free. The more I do it though, lifting heavy luggage over the staircases at Liverpool Street SSL is proving increasingly difficult. I'm happy to set off earlier and use Thameslink (secondary motive to get my 377 and 387 ridership up :P) but only if it's going to be remotely viable punctuality-wise - the track record isn't exactly wonderful here!

 

[Abpj17]

I'm jinxed...

anyways, my contribution to the usual jigsaw puzzle of what actually happened

- I was on a southbound train from Leagrave to Blackfriars that was already running a little slow
- we terminated at St Pancras - driver was lovely and very apologetic, he was basically only told a minute before he would be terminating and heading back North. It took several minutes to empty the train, for driver to walk up trains/check doors, for platform staff to work out what on earth was happening, for someone to remember to tell passengers to scurry from one platform to another, and then to finally dispatch the train.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G71589/2014/12/08
(Instead of bothering to attempt to go via the circle line given the trek through St P etc. I decided to sit and wait/watch )

- the next couple of southbound trains were late/cancelled, so the next service to depart the southbound platform that was actually going south was then headed for Sutton (and I got on). it left 8 minutes late

- but...then (and this was the daft bit...instead of having used the waiting around while the u-turn train didn't run through the core for bi-di), this first south train was then held outside farringdon for 15 minutes while 3 trains went around the failed train (they passed us in tunnels). We were then on our way again.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G71830/2014/12/08

- when we went through City Thameslink, it didn't look like a standard failure. The train extended beyond the platforms towards blackfriars by a number of carriages (so ???either failed going into City, or failed when trying to go back the way it came, or a train shunting it failed to move it - I wasn't counting properly..but it seemed quite long given the stock)

Delay repay claim 32 minutes

Sorry for the long post, but hopefully fills in some of the gaps and around bi-di was used in practice.

[samuelmorris - bus 214 or 205?]

 

[jon0844]

I'm so jealous that I keep missing these major disruptions in the core. But I have it all to look forward to when my trains start to use it (and more importantly, have to come through it so I can get the train home).

It's especially nice that as we already have the Welwyn viaduct as a nasty pinch point, but generally not the cause of major delays due to failed trains, we will soon be getting another one that will affect many more ECML bound services and have some nice knock on effects.

Sigh!

 

[mrmatt]

Most of these incidents recently (other than those sets coming out of Smithfield's) have been power switching related. Is it pure coincidence they happen more often going from DC to AC at City Thameslink of has Farringdon just been lucky?

 

[Mike395]

Farringdon's had spells with a fair few similar incidents too - it's been let off lightly this time

 

[Tetchytyke]

IThe more I do it though, lifting heavy luggage over the staircases at Liverpool Street SSL is proving increasingly difficult.

For that journey I'd go Liverpool Street-Aldgate-Kings Cross, assuming you can get down to the eastbound platform, as you'll have a cross-platform interchange at Aldgate to go back the other way. Or take the 205 bus, as Abpj17 suggests.

 

[Saint66]

Hopefully once the majority of 319's are gone, and we start to get a nice combination of more modern trains, they'll be less issues such as this. One hope's, anyway.

 

[W230]

Hopefully once the majority of 319's are gone, and we start to get a nice combination of more modern trains, they'll be less issues such as this. One hope's, anyway.

The issues are normally with 377s throwing a wobbly, not with the 319s!

 

[jon0844]

But Bombardier will have fixed all of this on the 387s right?

 

[Saint66]

The issues are normally with 377s throwing a wobbly, not with the 319s!

It was more in reference to yesterday's issue, which was 319 I believe!

 

[swt_passenger]

But Bombardier will have fixed all of this on the 387s right?

This thread's original "last night" was about a 377, over a week ago, but as usual it has dragged on into a bit of a "catch-all" thread for more recent incidents; and the most recent incident seemed to concern a 319 in the middle of the day. But it had knock on effects on the whole service, while people were wondering about the 387 introduction...

I do reckon it would be rather helpful if threads like this included the date in the title...

 

[Bald Rick]

The issues are normally with 377s throwing a wobbly, not with the 319s!

In my experience over the years, it is definitely more of a problem with 319s. But then there are a lot more of them

 

[samuelmorris]

For that journey I'd go Liverpool Street-Aldgate-Kings Cross, assuming you can get down to the eastbound platform, as you'll have a cross-platform interchange at Aldgate to go back the other way. Or take the 205 bus, as Abpj17 suggests.

Do you know, I never thought of that. I'd forgotten about the CPI at Aldgate, embarrassing as I used to use it a lot back in 2012 when I worked near Leman Street. Since it's only CPI for half of the Met services though, I'm a little worried about how long I might have to wait there for another service - quite possibly preferable to the potential pitfalls of using the Circle line beyond there though - I might try both options and see how they compare, thanks.
I try to avoid buses where possible as unfortunately the luggage I carry is very heavy, has wheels, but no brakes... - so it usually ends up rolling all over the place on buses due to the rather 'spirited' way they tend to be driven in London (not without good reason I might add)

Anyway, sorry for the OT :P

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Given that we appear to be getting multiple incidents in the same area with different types of train involved, most often involving either the power switchover or when pulling away under power, does this not indicate a problem with the infrastructure rather than the rolling stock?

 

[Abpj17]

Given that we appear to be getting multiple incidents in the same area with different types of train involved, most often involving either the power switchover or when pulling away under power, does this not indicate a problem with the infrastructure rather than the rolling stock?

It's everything? Sometimes it's driver error, but some of the rolling stock mitigates it through automation.

 

[samuelmorris]

As much as it could be, there aren't exactly many places on the TL where the voltage changeover occurs. I'd just attribute that to being a 'potentially risky' process - where faults that might pass unnoticed up to that point suddenly become apparent.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

When the 377s change over from AC to DC (or vice-versa) do they end up doing a full system reboot or do just some systems get rebooted?

 

[Bald Rick]

On the 377s the Traction system reboots, and a couple of other systems (most obviously the PIS). But it is not a full unit reboot

 

[RichardN]

In retrospect it would have been better to have built a wider Blackfriars with three through platforms and do the power switchover there. That way units in difficulties could be more easily routed around..

 

[swt_passenger]

In retrospect it would have been better to have built a wider Blackfriars with three through platforms and do the power switchover there. That way units in difficulties could be more easily routed around..

The current problems might not occur with the 700s, if they've been correctly specified, and meet that specification. They probably won't have problems due to running in multiple with other units with different software versions, at least.

In which case you could have ended up spending many £millions on an unnecessary platform.

 

[RichardN]

The current problems might not occur with the 700s, if they've been correctly specified, and meet that specification. They probably won't have problems due to running in multiple with other units with different software versions, at least.

In which case you could have ended up spending many £millions on an unnecessary platform.

That is until you want to turn something round for whatever reason... Plus if both platforms were normally used for Northbound traffic, the reduction in queuing to enter the platform would lessen perceived delays. Being held for 60 seconds on a platform is not as noticeable as being held for 60 seconds outside the platform.