George Osborne's Autumn Statement

[RichmondCommu]

The unions were defending workers and their pay and conditions.

In view of events over the past 30 years, which has seen the gap between rich and poor become a yawning chasm, and wages at the top spiral while those at the bottom stagnate, I would say they were correct.

It would be to everyone's benefit (except employers of course) if organised labour made a comeback.

But the unions crippled British industry which ultimately destroyed jobs. How can you defend the car strikes that ruined the industry in the 1970's? What good did it do?

 

[Xavi]

Economists call it agglomeration I think. And moving is very disruptive, particularly over long distances, where you may well need to recruit fresh staff which will mean you don't concentrate on the company trade but its internal workings....

The decision makers tend to be London based enjoying London salaries. Twenty years ago London salaries were typically 10% higher than the provinces, today they are often double. The London based decision makers do not want to undermine the base their salaries depend on - the co-workers around them. So for personal wealth they ignore the first rule of economics that the lower cost base will deliver the goods or service.

 

[Robertj21a]

The unions were defending workers and their pay and conditions.

In view of events over the past 30 years, which has seen the gap between rich and poor become a yawning chasm, and wages at the top spiral while those at the bottom stagnate, I would say they were correct.

It would be to everyone's benefit (except employers of course) if organised labour made a comeback.

If the Unions had used a bit of common sense rather than attempt to throw out an elected government then people might have had some sympathy for them. As it turned out, they preferred to try to exert their supposed power - and look what happened. Scargill etc have a lot to answer for.

 

[muddythefish]

But the unions crippled British industry which ultimately destroyed jobs. How can you defend the car strikes that ruined the industry in the 1970's? What good did it do?

Industry was and continues to be crippled by poor management. Look at any failing enterprise, whether it is a government, company or football club, and failure always stem from the top.

I must say, your claims to be a Labour supporter are dubious to say the least.

Meanwhile back to Gideon and his populist mini-Budget aimed at the next election that totally ignores rail.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Industry was and continues to be crippled by poor management. Look at any failing enterprise, whether it is a government, company or football club, and failure always stem from the top.

I must say, your claims to be a Labour supporter are dubious to say the least.

Meanwhile back to Gideon and his populist mini-Budget aimed at the next election that totally ignores rail.

Well the likes Nissan,Toyota, Rolls Royce, Tata, and BMW don't appear to be crippled by poor management and they are just but a few. What evidence do you have to suggest that it is?

I'm a Labour supporter (and indeed a member) because I believe in social justice. However I'm bright enough to understand the damage that the militant unions did to our economy and indeed their own members.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Well the likes Nissan,Toyota, Rolls Royce, Tata, and BMW don't appear to be crippled by poor management and they are just but a few. What evidence do you have to suggest that it is?

I'm a Labour supporter (and indeed a member) because I believe in social justice. However I'm bright enough to understand the damage that the militant unions did to our economy and indeed their own members.

Tata are currently selling their steel works to an American holding company. The Scunthorpe is not safe according to Look North BBC a few months ago. It's tge order books which are wanted.

 

[Helvellyn]

http://www.ippr.org/news-and-media/...2700-for-london-but-p5-per-head-in-north-east

IPPR North analysis shows transport spending is:

£2731 per head in London
£792 per head in the South East
£311 per head in the East Midlands
£269 per head in the West Midlands
£201 per head in Yorkshire & Humber
£134 per head in the North West
£43 per head in the East
£19 per head in the South West
£5 per head in the North East

They are also ignoring the fact that urban areas with dense populations (London) rely on railways a lot more than rural areas where the population is a lot more spread out.

I'd add to that the spending for London being based on per head of population ignores just how many people commute into London from outside Greater London, and also use that transport infrastructure (plus however many thousands of tourists at any one time).

Whereas in the North East, outside of Tyne & Wear where are the big conurbations that require so much public transport support? Heck, I'd ass that the Metro is a pretty impressive system, and the fact that it came about through 1970s planning (a bit like Merseyrail investment) actually seems to get forgotten about. The VicPic link in Manchester (tunnel under the city) never happened, but Newcastle and Liverpool got their city centre links.

I'm not saying there isn't a disparity in funding (and accept there is and should be), but as the saying goes, their are lies, damned lies and statistics - splitting the funding by head of population creates some very stark results, but I'll go back and say that London's infrastructure is used by a hell of lot more than just Londoners on a daily basis. That simple fact so many people need moving around is why things like CrossRail 2 are being mooted - stand on the London bound platforms at Earlsfield, Raynes Park or Wimbledon between 07:00 and 09:00 to see why.

Oh, and by the way, I post this as someone who grew up in the North West - one of the most sparsely populated parts of it that sees virtually no public transport spending, so the nominal £134 per head being spent on my family and friends up their might be less than the £5 per head in the North East at the most local level. I'd be interested to see the figure per head broken down further to show Merseyside or Greater Manchester rather than the North West!

 

[RichmondCommu]

Tata are currently selling their steel works to an American holding company. The Scunthorpe is not safe according to Look North BBC a few months ago. It's tge order books which are wanted.

Which steel plant are they selling? All of them? I'm aware that they wish to sell their rail making business. However that doesn't suggest that they are a badly run company.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Which steel plant are they selling? All of them? I'm aware that they wish to sell their rail making business. However that doesn't suggest that they are a badly run company.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29628813

I think this is the story. I never said they were badly run but this type of sell off can wreck entire towns and lively hoods.

 

[muddythefish]

Well the likes Nissan,Toyota, Rolls Royce, Tata, and BMW don't appear to be crippled by poor management and they are just but a few. What evidence do you have to suggest that it is?

I'm a Labour supporter (and indeed a member) because I believe in social justice. However I'm bright enough to understand the damage that the militant unions did to our economy and indeed their own members.

The likes of those companies treat their employees fairly, unlike those of the 1980s which sought only confrontation. It is significant that all those companies are foreign-owned; poor management is largely a British phenomenon it seems to me.

I believe in social justice too but I'm bright enough to to understand that the root cause lies at the top of society. No Labour supporter would type what you have written.

 

[ainsworth74]

So if you wish to be in the Labour you're only allowed to hold one set of views only and hold only one specific set of positions on various issues? You're not allowed to disagree with anyone on anything? Seem a bit draconian...

 

[edwin_m]

I'd say that the confrontational attitude that has been present in British industry was a major factor in the collapse of much of it from the 1970s onwards - and it takes two to have a confrontation. Compare Germany where the management and unions seem to have generally recognised they were in the same boat and had to co-operate in the interests of the company and the economy as a whole.

 

[RichmondCommu]

The likes of those companies treat their employees fairly, unlike those of the 1980s which sought only confrontation. It is significant that all those companies are foreign-owned; poor management is largely a British phenomenon it seems to me.

I agree with much of which you say here. It's other posters that appear to have a problem with foreign ownership. However it's worth pointing out that the likes of Rolls Royce are British owned but are doing very well. As is the likes of Dyson.

I believe in social justice too but I'm bright enough to to understand that the root cause lies at the top of society. No Labour supporter would type what you have written.

In that case are you suggesting that I'm not telling the truth? Indeed that I'm telling a lie?

 

[muddythefish]

I agree with much of which you say here. It's other posters that appear to have a problem with foreign ownership. However it's worth pointing out that the likes of Rolls Royce are British owned but are doing very well. As is the likes of Dyson.

Rolls Royce is a beacon of light in a sea of gloom. I wish we had more companies like it. How long do you think before the City sells it off to a foreign buyer ?

In that case are you suggesting that I'm not telling the truth? Indeed that I'm telling a lie?

I've no idea if you're telling the truth or not.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I'd say that the confrontational attitude that has been present in British industry was a major factor in the collapse of much of it from the 1970s onwards - and it takes two to have a confrontation. Compare Germany where the management and unions seem to have generally recognised they were in the same boat and had to co-operate in the interests of the company and the economy as a whole.

Well exactly! That's what delivered the economic miracle after the end of WW2.

 

[fgwrich]

Isn't it to do with the doors having to be visibly a different colour from the rest of the train for people with impaired sight? Dirt could affect that...



I'm no supporter of the Conservative party, but I think you're being unfair in your assessment. It's a commitment to replacing them, not a vague promise. And that is significant as it means modified pacers won't happen.

It is, but things like door opening buttons are included too for the visually impaired - Most of the 153s retained the original buttons until fairly recently, and some got lost in the liveries they carried - this was 153335 In Anglia / NX in 2011 - A year after It was inspected.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/elettra1143/6062042537

 

[RichmondCommu]

Rolls Royce is a beacon of light in a sea of gloom. I wish we had more companies like it. How long do you think before the City sells it off to a foreign buyer ?

I don't think there is another international engineering company who could afford to buy Rolls Royce. And it wouldn't be the City, it would be the shareholders.

I've no idea if you're telling the truth or not.

In which case please stop making such silly comments for which you have no basis.

 

[muddythefish]

I don't think there is another international engineering company who could afford to buy Rolls Royce. And it wouldn't be the City, it would be the shareholders.

All entities have a price.

In which case please stop making such silly comments for which you have no basis.

Your silly comments are not consistent with you being a Labour party member, as you claim.

 

[RichmondCommu]

All entities have a price.

And in Rolls Royce's case a price which no one else could afford.

Your silly comments are not consistent with you being a Labour party member, as you claim.

Why are my comments silly your eye's? On what basis are you suggesting that I'm not a Labour party member?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

So if you wish to be in the Labour you're only allowed to hold one set of views only and hold only one specific set of positions on various issues? You're not allowed to disagree with anyone on anything? Seem a bit draconian...

What you so describe above seems to hark back to a certain number of "Socialist" countries over the period of the last 100 years.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I believe in social justice too but I'm bright enough to to understand that the root cause lies at the top of society. No Labour supporter would type what you have written.

Really? Strange, because I'm a Labour Party member as well, and it looks to me like what RichmondCommu has been saying is spot on.

 

[Penmorfa]

I agree with much of which you say here. It's other posters that appear to have a problem with foreign ownership. However it's worth pointing out that the likes of Rolls Royce are British owned but are doing very well. As is the likes of Dyson.

I take it you are aware that Dyson moved all production to Malaysia some years ago?

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_(company)

Initially, all Dyson vacuum cleaners and washing machines were made in Malmesbury, Wiltshire. In 2002, the company transferred vacuum cleaner production to Malaysia. Dyson stated that the company requested planning permission to expand the factory to increase vacuum cleaner production, but that this application failed. However, the local government says that no such permission was ever sought, as the land Dyson planned to use was privately owned and the original owner did not want to sell.[26] As Dyson was the major manufacturing company in Wiltshire outside Swindon, this move aroused some controversy. A year later, washing machine production was also moved to Malaysia

 

[RichmondCommu]

I take it you are aware that Dyson moved all production to Malaysia some years ago?

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_(company)

Initially, all Dyson vacuum cleaners and washing machines were made in Malmesbury, Wiltshire. In 2002, the company transferred vacuum cleaner production to Malaysia. Dyson stated that the company requested planning permission to expand the factory to increase vacuum cleaner production, but that this application failed. However, the local government says that no such permission was ever sought, as the land Dyson planned to use was privately owned and the original owner did not want to sell.[26] As Dyson was the major manufacturing company in Wiltshire outside Swindon, this move aroused some controversy. A year later, washing machine production was also moved to Malaysia

Yes I am well aware of this. However there is nothing here to suggest that they are not a successful British owned company. I would also suggest that all the R & D work (in other words the value added stuff) is still done in this country.

 

[muddythefish]

And in Rolls Royce's case a price which no one else could afford.

That's what ICI and GEC said.

Why are my comments silly your eye's? On what basis are you suggesting that I'm not a Labour party member?

Why are my comment silly in your eyes ? Nothing you have written proves you are a Labour party member.

 

[RichmondCommu]

That's what ICI and GEC said.






Why are my comment silly in your eyes ? Nothing you have written proves you are a Labour party member.

So basically your saying that I'm a liar?

 

[muddythefish]

Er, no. What I'm saying is none of your views are consistent with you being a Labour Party member or being left of centre.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Er, no. What I'm saying is none of your views are consistent with you being a Labour Party member or being left of centre.

So are you suggesting that I'm a not a member of the Labour Party? A yes or no will do here.

 

[muddythefish]

I'd say that the confrontational attitude that has been present in British industry was a major factor in the collapse of much of it from the 1970s onwards - and it takes two to have a confrontation. Compare Germany where the management and unions seem to have generally recognised they were in the same boat and had to co-operate in the interests of the company and the economy as a whole.

Yes it does take two for a confrontation and in my industry it was always the management picking a fight. Germany by contrast has been successful because there is a con census between managers and workers. Germany has also benefited from not having 30 years ago a govt that effectively declared war on its own working people destroying large areas of manufacturing in the process
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So are you suggesting that I'm a not a member of the Labour Party? A yes or no will do here.

I couldn't care less to be honest. Whatever makes you happy.

 

[Donny Dave]

Just a quick note about Rolls Royce, how "no one could afford to buy them" ....

Rolls Royce currently has a share price of 868.75 pence a share with a market capitalisation of just over £16.35 billion. By comparison, General Electric has a share price of $26.385 (about £16.80/share) and a market cap of $271 billion (about £172 billion). Depite GE being more diversified, both companies to operate in the same sectors and make comparable goods. With the profits General Electric make, and their strong cash flow, the could swallow RR and barely hiccup. However, for this to happen, they would need to make an acceptable offer to the board, and hope the shareholders (which could include both you and I) vote in favour, and that the government don't veto the takeover.

 

[muddythefish]

Correct. Rolls Royce is a big company here but a minnow compared to the US giants. If one of them fancied a takeover it would only need an offer at a big premium to the current share price and the City boys would take the cash and run. Remember their ire when Astra Zeneca escaped from Pfizer's clutches ?

Meanwhile back to the AS and the £15bn to be spent creating more traffic jams.