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My son is being threatened with prosecution

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Cm1gj

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"Travel on a train without a valid ticket contrary S 5.3 RORA 1889


"The Rail Company (Arriva Trains Wales) report alleges that you had failed to pay the correct fare due and had boarded a train with the intention of travelling without having previously paid the correct amount. The company is entitled to consider whether a charge of intemnt to avoid a fare could be alleged. These are mnatters that may ne summonsed fro hearing before a magistrates court.

When asked to show a valid ticket it is alleged that you failed to do so and that you had failed to pay the appropriate fare due in accordance with the rules in force. You did not tender a valid ticket and the company does consider that an attempt to avoid a liability may be alleged.

An application for summons may now be made. If you wish to comment further before this matters proceeds, please respond within 14 days."


Please see the letter below he wrote to the inspectors for details of the incident.


"A member of the railway revenue protection staff spoke to me on 11/10/2014 because I did not produce a valid ticket between Skewen and Cardiff Central. I just want to explain the circumstances I was in on this date.
I boarded the train at Skewen having been dropped off from work with no idea when work was likely to finish therefore not knowing what train to book and thinking that I could buy a ticket at the station. There were no ticket facilities at the station so I boarded the train without a ticket, thinking that I would be able to purchase one on the train. There was no ticket conductor between Skewen and Cardiff, so I was unable to buy a ticket. On arriving at Cardiff, I went to the ticket officers at the back and asked if I could buy a ticket from Neath, merely thinking that I could save a couple of quid due to the slightly reduced journey. On reflection, I should have been honest and I feel guilty for lying for such a small gain. I’m not a regular on trains and I’m not fully aware of the correct procedures. I regret my decision and I am sorry."

I'll not go into the mitigating issues about lack of familiarity with Wales and local trains etc (all our local trains in Dernyshire are pay on the train).

My basic question is can we try reach an out of court settlement (the criminal record is the major concern, and seems out of proportion to the offence). Should he contact them direct to make this offer, or should we go through a solicitor? If the latter can anyone recommend solicitors experienced in dealing with this

many thanks
 
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najaB

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On arriving at Cardiff, I went to the ticket officers at the back and asked if I could buy a ticket from Neath, merely thinking that I could save a couple of quid due to the slightly reduced journey.
That couple of quid's saving is likely to turn into hundreds of pounds expense at the very least.

Yes, you can attempt to reach an out of court settlement. Seeing as he's already admitted his guilt, there is nothing stopping your son (or yourself if he is a minor) writing to ATW's prosecutors and offering to settle out of court. Expect any offer with less than three digits to be rejected.
 

455driver

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My basic question is can we try reach an out of court settlement
That depends if Arriva decide to offer you one.
(the criminal record is the major concern,
Maybe he shouldnt have knowingly commited fraud then!
and seems out of proportion to the offence).
Fraud is fraud!
Should he contact them direct to make this offer,
You can add it on the bottom of the letter but bearing in mind the letter reads that your son thinks he is is innocent and its all Arrivas fault I wouldnt hold out much hope.
Its the same procedure Countrywide, you pay for the journey you are making not what you want to pay for, it isnt complicated.
He knows enough that lying about where he got on the train (and the name of the station to use) could have saved him a few quid so how much does he actually know?
or should we go through a solicitor?
If you want to throw good money after bad then feel free, except for procedural errors he is guilty and there wouldnt be much the solicitor could do!
If the latter can anyone recommend solicitors experienced in dealing with this
many thanks

None spring to mind.
If that letter, reading the way it does, turned up on my desk it would be straight to Court for the sender!
 

Arglwydd Golau

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I know someone who did exactly the same recently...lying to 'save a few quid'. It doesn't work, and the only way out of it is not to make any excuses, apologise for the hassle it has caused ATW and hope that they contact you with the offer of an out of court settlement, which is what happened to my acquaintance.
I suspect that she was offered this as it was her first offence, I'm sure she would not 'get away with it' if she transgressed again!
 

CC 72100

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I'll not go into the mitigating issues about lack of familiarity with Wales and local trains etc (all our local trains in Dernyshire are pay on the train).

To be honest, I don't think it makes any difference - your son did the right thing in the situation, paying on arrival at Cardiff. There is no mitigation whatsoever here; he followed the correct procedure when he was unable to pay on the train, so for all the lack of familiarity he did the right thing....

But... the problem is stating a station which he did not travel from. That is the problem.
 

DelayRepay

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To be honest, I don't think it makes any difference - your son did the right thing in the situation, paying on arrival at Cardiff. There is no mitigation whatsoever here; he followed the correct procedure when he was unable to pay on the train, so for all the lack of familiarity he did the right thing....

But... the problem is stating a station which he did not travel from. That is the problem.

And choosing a staffed station for the lie is even worse, since even if they had not caught him out for telling lies, they'd still be able to prosecute for not buying a ticket.
 

Abpj17

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As it's stated being for work; they may even suspect he is a serial fare dodger?
 

yorkie

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I'll not go into the mitigating issues about lack of familiarity with Wales and local trains etc (all our local trains in Dernyshire are pay on the train)
None of that has any relevance. He admits that he was intending to avoid the fare by asking for a ticket from a closer station. The rest is, at best, irrelevant.

However ATW are likely to agree an out of court settlement, as it is in their financial interest to do so. As he's admitted guilt, it could be a large settlement but, to avoid a criminal record, it would be advisable to pay it.
 

ComUtoR

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My opinion is unchanged no matter what he wrote in his letter - as with all other TOC-based prosecution decisions; the application of enough cash will see this go away. Profit > All Else as with all profit making companies.

My opinion is also unchanged. The submission of a very disingenuous letter will attempt to remove all responsibility and liability. lying, morally bankrupt, fraudster < Law.
 

Cm1gj

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Thank you for all your thoughts. Just to come back to part of my original query, would there be any value in using a solicitor to negotiate the settlement - it is supposed to be one of their key skills. Or would this just be seen as having plenty of money to throw around? do ATW just set a figure and not negotiate?
 

Solent&Wessex

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Thank you for all your thoughts. Just to come back to part of my original query, would there be any value in using a solicitor to negotiate the settlement - it is supposed to be one of their key skills. Or would this just be seen as having plenty of money to throw around? do ATW just set a figure and not negotiate?

A solicitor would cost more than you would possibly save.

ATW would set a figure and not negotiate. They are not even obliged to set a figure, but they are likely to in the first instance. If experience with my train company is anything to go by it is likely to be the fare for the journey, plus around about £150, but possibly more or less depending on any costs incurred. Each company has their own policy however - Arriva's base figure may be higher. The amount would likely need to be paid in full in one single transaction, in cleared funds, before the matter is considered settled. Failure to agree and pay any out of court settlement they decide would mean they would just take it to court and you'd end up with a larger fine and court costs and a criminal record to boot.
 
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