First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

[83G/84D]

This is very strange. I boarded the 1145 Falmouth - Pz the other day which left twenty minutes late from the Moor. If it was turned at Asda how did the passengers get to Falmouth? Maybe changed onto a U1/U2 at Tremough?

There are still quite a few visits to Camborne by the E400's for attention. Two were noted last week. A Trident was on the U2 at Redruth this afternoon.

 

[Busaholic]

This is very strange. I boarded the 1145 Falmouth - Pz the other day which left twenty minutes late from the Moor. If it was turned at Asda how did the passengers get to Falmouth? Maybe changed onto a U1/U2 at Tremough?

More importantly still, what about passengers waiting at Falmouth for the return journey to Penzance, given the 2-hour gap before the next bus? I'll keep an eye on this (I'm out and about in Penzance, Marazion and Goldsithney several times a day). Don't want First to think that seeing off the competition, if indeed they have, gives them carte blanche to return to old ways!

 

[matt_splat]

maybe the passengers were advised by a driver of a U1 or U2 that they should catch the service and change if it was 30 mins late say it could have been better to turn the service early and use other busses to shuttle passengers

 

[Busaholic]

maybe the passengers were advised by a driver of a U1 or U2 that they should catch the service and change if it was 30 mins late say it could have been better to turn the service early and use other busses to shuttle passengers

But it was, at most, ten minutes late (nearer five in my estimation).

 

[83G/84D]

Both Fal River cruises Trident's receiving attention at First Camborne this morning.

 

[swifty]

I don't think DCC will mind so much if they can save money on a tender, albeit they'll have to pay for a Saturday service

What's the summary on the new registrations for Kernow. A new 94 Truro to Newquay, extension of 27 to Bodmin, new 24 Fowey to Meva. Has the 76 got a revision too?? Anything else?

The 94 follows the 92 route to St Columb and then heads off to Wadebridge, although it only operates 1 journey in each direction a day, whilst the 24 is half hourly Fowey to St Austell with hourly extensions to Mevagissey.

 

[83G/84D]

Optare Solo's YJ06 YSK & YJ56 AOT formerly of Regal Busways have gone to Ensignbus, one wonders where they will move on to?

 

[South Westerly]

Optare Solo's YJ06 YSK & YJ56 AOT formerly of Regal Busways have gone to Ensignbus, one wonders where they will move on to?

Along with another, in exchange for surplus coaches from across First.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Along with another, in exchange for surplus coaches from across First.

Not the Muller Road coaching unit

 

[South Westerly]

Not the Muller Road coaching unit

I believe it was two from there, to be followed by two more and 1 from the current Kernow Rail fleet.

 

[RPI]

From the First Devon and Cornwall website today
http://m.firstgroup.com/ukbus/news/012201/

First Kernow Announces Good News For Bus Customers

Monday 1st December 2014

In a move expected to be widely welcomed by Cornwall’s bus users and following numerous requests, local bus operator First Kernow, today confirmed plans to further expand its bus network.


From February 2015, First will begin operating new services which will link St Columb Major and St Agnes with both Truro and Newquay.


This latest announcement from First Kernow, Cornwall’s leading bus operator, follows previous news of new routes in the St Austell area adding to the company’s extensive network.* From the 5 January, Wadebridge, Fowey, Par, St Blazey. Mevagissey, Bodmin, Roche and Bugle will join the fast-growing First Kernow bus network.


“This is great news for bus customers in St Columb Major, St Agnes, Truro and Newquay,” said** Managing Director of First Kernow, Alex Carter.* “From February we will begin operating high quality bus services which will provide much needed links between these important communities.


“We will reveal exact details of our new services in the New Year – we’re both excited by the prospect of further extending our network and determined to provide the best service possible and attract more people to bus travel.”


First Kernow has announced a number of expansions to its bus network in recent months.* In September 2013, it was awarded the contract by Cornwall Council to operate Truro’s Park and Ride service; on November 3 First began operating new routes between St Austell and Newquay and between Truro and Newquay; and on January 5 it will begin a range of new services in the St Austell area.


Alex Carter continued: “The number of people travelling with First is growing, which is enabling us to expand our business.* Over the last year or so, we’ve worked incredibly hard to improve our services, especially punctuality and reliability, and encourage more people to use the bus.* Our efforts are being rewarded – indeed in a number of cases we are seeing increases in passenger numbers in excess of 10 per cent.


“I’m confident that passenger growth will continue enabling us to expand our services further.* These are exciting times for the company and our loyal, hard-working staff who have supported us for so many years.”

 

[richw]

Western Greyhound have a offer on the table.
First are taking on more of WG western operations. Stagecoach have registered a part of the 510.
Are Go-Ahead (Plymouth City Bus) the company making an offer for WG, hence First and Stagecoach taking on the western and northern routes? I imagine PCB only being interested in the Eastern Cornwall routes.
Or are these further ventures in an attempt to put off a buyer?

 

[RPI]

The part of the 510 you refer to, is that the X10? Think Stagecoach registered that a while back.

 

[LateThanNever]

From the First Devon and Cornwall website today
http://m.firstgroup.com/ukbus/news/012201/

First Kernow Announces Good News For Bus Customers

Monday 1st December 2014

In a move expected to be widely welcomed by Cornwall’s bus users and following numerous requests, local bus operator First Kernow, today confirmed plans to further expand its bus network.


From February 2015, First will begin operating new services which will link St Columb Major and St Agnes with both Truro and Newquay.


This latest announcement from First Kernow, Cornwall’s leading bus operator, follows previous news of new routes in the St Austell area adding to the company’s extensive network.* From the 5 January, Wadebridge, Fowey, Par, St Blazey. Mevagissey, Bodmin, Roche and Bugle will join the fast-growing First Kernow bus network.


“This is great news for bus customers in St Columb Major, St Agnes, Truro and Newquay,” said** Managing Director of First Kernow, Alex Carter.* “From February we will begin operating high quality bus services which will provide much needed links between these important communities.

That'll be in contrast to the low quality bus services they currently run almost everywhere else then!
Maybe I've been unlucky but I don't believe I've ever been on a First Bus in Cornwall that didn't have at least one of: threadbare upholstery, filthy or a too well worn exterior to be cleanable and then started off its journey in a cloud of black smoke. And all for a fare that would get you double the distance on most trains. If their passengers are 10% up that must be because WG are also terrible...

 

[South Westerly]

Western Greyhound have a offer on the table.
First are taking on more of WG western operations. Stagecoach have registered a part of the 510.
Are Go-Ahead (Plymouth City Bus) the company making an offer for WG, hence First and Stagecoach taking on the western and northern routes? I imagine PCB only being interested in the Eastern Cornwall routes.
Or are these further ventures in an attempt to put off a buyer?

GoAhead are buying Liskeard. Apparently there is an offer for the rest on the table, but now First are competing on every commercial route, you'd have to be very brave, or very financially generous to take on the rest of the business.

 

[sor]

That'll be in contrast to the low quality bus services they currently run almost everywhere else then!
Maybe I've been unlucky but I don't believe I've ever been on a First Bus in Cornwall that didn't have at least one of: threadbare upholstery, filthy or a too well worn exterior to be cleanable and then started off its journey in a cloud of black smoke. And all for a fare that would get you double the distance on most trains. If their passengers are 10% up that must be because WG are also terrible...

Some of those could equally apply to WG though, fares from my village to St. Austell weren't exactly low (I've heard they're well over £5 return now) and at least one time the driver was annoyed as he'd actually have to drive into my village instead of skipping it.

I used to have to get one of the First services for Truro College and the bus driver (same one every day) was great.

If I have to get a train I just drive or get a lift, much quicker and easier. It'll be interesting to see if it's any better under First next year. Do they do ITSO yet?

 

[Goldfish62]

That'll be in contrast to the low quality bus services they currently run almost everywhere else then!
Maybe I've been unlucky but I don't believe I've ever been on a First Bus in Cornwall that didn't have at least one of: threadbare upholstery, filthy or a too well worn exterior to be cleanable and then started off its journey in a cloud of black smoke. And all for a fare that would get you double the distance on most trains. If their passengers are 10% up that must be because WG are also terrible...

To be fair, First's buses do now tend to turn up, which is more than they did a couple of years ago - and more than WG's do now. Describing the services as high quality, though, is beyond taking the p*ss.:roll:

 

[83G/84D]

To be fair, First's buses do now tend to turn up, which is more than they did a couple of years ago - and more than WG's do now. Describing the services as high quality, though, is beyond taking the p*ss.:roll:

Unless of course there are plans by First Kernow to introduce new(er) buses? Certainly not Stagecoach Gold standard at the moment.

 

[RPI]

First Kernow have improved dramatically over the past 12 months, they seem to have a workforce that in the majority really do care about the success of the business.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

First Kernow have improved dramatically over the past 12 months, they seem to have a workforce that in the majority really do care about the success of the business.

First Kernow, and I say this from a distance, appear to have turned a corner financially and operationally. However, unlike Somerset that has had wholesale fleet change, the Kernow fleet is still reliant on a lot of elderly kit. Save the redeployed e400s, a few ex Reading Solars and a handful of Solos, that age profile hasn't really changed.

For some, that will be the measure of real success; when new or modern (< 5 yrs old) buses enter the fleet. However, it can't be denied that AC has made an impact!

 

[Busaholic]

First Kernow, and I say this from a distance, appear to have turned a corner financially and operationally. However, unlike Somerset that has had wholesale fleet change, the Kernow fleet is still reliant on a lot of elderly kit. Save the redeployed e400s, a few ex Reading Solars and a handful of Solos, that age profile hasn't really changed.

For some, that will be the measure of real success; when new or modern (< 5 yrs old) buses enter the fleet. However, it can't be denied that AC has made an impact!

Since First's strategic withdrawal from London, where are sufficient modern buses going to come from to cascade to other fleets in future? I can't see Kernow ever being other than near the bottom of the pile, even after EU regulations force the most time-expired stuff on to the scrapheap. If Go-Ahead do extend their tentacles a bit further into Cornwall it will be interesting to see how First react and how many of the new services starting in January stay the course. Judging from the Plymouth situation it looks as though an uneasy compromise may be reached and real competition remain muted. Cornwall Council's own public transport website, a very poor affair, admits that most of the 'commercial' routes are in the west of the county i.e. west of a line drawn between Newquay, Truro and Falmouth, where less open air and green fields exists between settlements. Western Greyhound's problems that weren't fire-induced seem to have started after their withdrawal from West Cornwall.

 

[90sWereBetter]

Since First's strategic withdrawal from London, where are sufficient modern buses going to come from to cascade to other fleets in future?

I wonder if we'll be seeing First purchase more buses from Ensignbus in the future. There are plenty of ex-London deckers from operators like Metroline, who don't have other companies to cascade them to. Additionally, there's a huge amount of 03-reg Tridents in service with Stagecoach in London, which will be coming off service in the next few months, and I can't see Stagecoach absorbing all of them into provincial operations (given that there's about 200-300 of them in East London alone).

It would be like 2003-2005 again, when First bought a load of 6-10 year old Volvo Olympians from a variety of sources, including Stagecoach.

Just a few musings, not saying this is gospel.

 

[South Westerly]

First Kernow, and I say this from a distance, appear to have turned a corner financially and operationally. However, unlike Somerset that has had wholesale fleet change, the Kernow fleet is still reliant on a lot of elderly kit. Save the redeployed e400s, a few ex Reading Solars and a handful of Solos, that age profile hasn't really changed.

For some, that will be the measure of real success; when new or modern (< 5 yrs old) buses enter the fleet. However, it can't be denied that AC has made an impact!

Except a lot of the fleet is on contracted work. the commercial routes only account for about 40 PVR. Put 9 12 plate E400s and a 59 plate Solo into the 40 and the difference is significant. From what I've heard there are plans to put a lot of newer buses into Cornwall in 2015, and also to rebrand and refresh a lot of the fleet. It's been a while coming but the word is that there is a big plan for 'First Kernow' that is due to start in early 2015, and that that is why various vehicles haven't been repainted since arriving.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Since First's strategic withdrawal from London, where are sufficient modern buses going to come from to cascade to other fleets in future? I can't see Kernow ever being other than near the bottom of the pile, even after EU regulations force the most time-expired stuff on to the scrapheap. If Go-Ahead do extend their tentacles a bit further into Cornwall it will be interesting to see how First react and how many of the new services starting in January stay the course. Judging from the Plymouth situation it looks as though an uneasy compromise may be reached and real competition remain muted. Cornwall Council's own public transport website, a very poor affair, admits that most of the 'commercial' routes are in the west of the county i.e. west of a line drawn between Newquay, Truro and Falmouth, where less open air and green fields exists between settlements. Western Greyhound's problems that weren't fire-induced seem to have started after their withdrawal from West Cornwall.

London cascades aren't as good as they sound. The buses are straight line depreciated over 15 years, so take a 10 year old bus coming out of London that cost about £150k. It will have £50k of depreciation left which means it costs £10k per annum for the next 5 years . However, it probably had a mid contract refurbishment in London that was capitalised - say £10k at five years old. That would take the remaining depreciation to £11k per annum. When it leaves London it needs another refurbishment, but this one has to include a single door conversion. This is about £10k, which adds another £2k per annum to the depreciation of the bus. That means that whereas a new bus into the London fleet gives all the benefits of little maintenance at £10k depreciation per annum, some poor provincial fleet picks up a bus that is ten years old, and which for the next five years they have to pay £13k per annum depreciation. As well as paying more in depreciation, a ten year bus that has spent its life working hard in London costs more to maintain than even similar aged buses in the fleet.
First said at the time that they would benefit from not having all those cascades coming out. What actually happened was that a big proportion of their annual capital expenditure budget was spent on new buses for London contract demands, ahead of other parts of the UK.
Stagecoach don't buy new buses for London now, they lease them. they said when they bought back into London that this was to stop the cascade issues.
What will happen in First is a continuation of what is happening now, with significant numbers of new buses being bought for across the UK. It is possible that the Manchesters will get new and cascade their own mid life buses on to provincial fleets. What is likely though, is that new buses will in fact find their way onto the strongest routes in places like Cornwall.

 

[overthewater]

What I would like to see is alot more refurbishment of the provincial fleet. This alone I believe would improve the situation across the broad for many fleets.

 

[baza585]

Except a lot of the fleet is on contracted work. the commercial routes only account for about 40 PVR. Put 9 12 plate E400s and a 59 plate Solo into the 40 and the difference is significant. From what I've heard there are plans to put a lot of newer buses into Cornwall in 2015, and also to rebrand and refresh a lot of the fleet. It's been a while coming but the word is that there is a big plan for 'First Kernow' that is due to start in early 2015, and that that is why various vehicles haven't been repainted since arriving.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


London cascades aren't as good as they sound. The buses are straight line depreciated over 15 years, so take a 10 year old bus coming out of London that cost about £150k. It will have £50k of depreciation left which means it costs £10k per annum for the next 5 years . However, it probably had a mid contract refurbishment in London that was capitalised - say £10k at five years old. That would take the remaining depreciation to £11k per annum. When it leaves London it needs another refurbishment, but this one has to include a single door conversion. This is about £10k, which adds another £2k per annum to the depreciation of the bus. That means that whereas a new bus into the London fleet gives all the benefits of little maintenance at £10k depreciation per annum, some poor provincial fleet picks up a bus that is ten years old, and which for the next five years they have to pay £13k per annum depreciation. As well as paying more in depreciation, a ten year bus that has spent its life working hard in London costs more to maintain than even similar aged buses in the fleet.
First said at the time that they would benefit from not having all those cascades coming out. What actually happened was that a big proportion of their annual capital expenditure budget was spent on new buses for London contract demands, ahead of other parts of the UK.
Stagecoach don't buy new buses for London now, they lease them. they said when they bought back into London that this was to stop the cascade issues.
What will happen in First is a continuation of what is happening now, with significant numbers of new buses being bought for across the UK. It is possible that the Manchesters will get new and cascade their own mid life buses on to provincial fleets. What is likely though, is that new buses will in fact find their way onto the strongest routes in places like Cornwall.

Thank you for that very clear explanation of why London cascades are a mixed blessing. The increased tendency to buy more complex vehicles for London such as hybrids further reduces the attraction of ex London vehicles, whilst ex London Darts have always been relatively unattractive because they are generally knackered mechanically. First's choice of Marshall bodies for London Darts wasn't the best either IMHO!!

Stagecoach's choice of leasing London vehicles is I suspect driven by a lack of desire from their provincial fleets to accept ex London buses for just the reasons you have outlined.

OTOH First opcos like FHD & Cymru have received their first significant influx of vehicles (other than where new was required by contract) for some years in 2014, whilst most other "backwater" opcos have received new buses. Given most saloons ordered by First in 2015 are likely to be lightweight buses, such as Streetlites, are they likely to be suitable for Cornwall's geography, or is it more likely that other opcos will release newish Volvos and get new Streetlites as replacements, where they can cope with the geography?

 

[richw]

To answer the comments about the average fleet age. First Kernow infact has a newer average age if we exclude the old Volvo Open toppers than buses of Somerset/Taunton

First Kernow 12.4 years (excluding Volvo Citybus open toppers), 13.1 years (including Volvo Citybus open toppers)

First Buses of Somerset/Taunton- 12.55 years

(data analysed from 30/11/14 fleetlist)

I am actually quite shocked myself- shows what a coat of shiny green paint does!

I have excluded vehicles marked as withdrawn.

 

[LateThanNever]

To answer the comments about the average fleet age. First Kernow infact has a newer average age if we exclude the old Volvo Open toppers than buses of Somerset/Taunton

First Kernow 12.4 years (excluding Volvo Citybus open toppers), 13.1 years (including Volvo Citybus open toppers)

First Buses of Somerset/Taunton- 12.55 years

(data analysed from 30/11/14 fleetlist)

I am actually quite shocked myself- shows what a coat of shiny green paint does!
I have excluded vehicles marked as withdrawn.

For the motorists passing perhaps - as far as I've seen the insides are à la Kernow, as it were! And hardly encouraging.

 

[richw]

Latethannever, I've done a few ride Cornwall outings lately riding at least 15 different buses and haven't seen a first interior as you described previously.
The western greyhound vario I rode on Friday had a number of seat cushions stuck together with duck tape on the other hand!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Except a lot of the fleet is on contracted work. the commercial routes only account for about 40 PVR. Put 9 12 plate E400s and a 59 plate Solo into the 40 and the difference is significant. From what I've heard there are plans to put a lot of newer buses into Cornwall in 2015, and also to rebrand and refresh a lot of the fleet. It's been a while coming but the word is that there is a big plan for 'First Kernow' that is due to start in early 2015, and that that is why various vehicles haven't been repainted since arriving.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


London cascades aren't as good as they sound. Stagecoach don't buy new buses for London now, they lease them. they said when they bought back into London that this was to stop the cascade issues.
What will happen in First is a continuation of what is happening now, with significant numbers of new buses being bought for across the UK. It is possible that the Manchesters will get new and cascade their own mid life buses on to provincial fleets. What is likely though, is that new buses will in fact find their way onto the strongest routes in places like Cornwall.

I did except the Enviros and yes, you can slice the statistics that way. I also appreciate that the local government environment means that there isn't exactly the ability to fund newer kit and that tenders are being based on partially or fully depreciated fleet. Accept all of that, but I was referring to the full fleet and, in comparison with Somerset, the level of change in fleet composition and age has been more noticeable there this year.

As Somerset was so aged, perhaps it was a more pressing priority and we look forward to seeing some newer fleet hitting the streets in 2015. I like an older machine as much as the next person (I was brought up on a strict diet of Brislington/Lowestoft products) but K-N reg Olympians can only defy age so long.

Fully agree with your comments on London vehicles. Many seem to fail to grasp the cost of "deLondonisation" of such machines, and they will have been worked hard, often on a 24 hour basis. There's a lot been spoken about First losing the ability to have mid-life London cascades. In truth, the issue has often been about trying to find a home for kit from London, hence why Stagecoach now leases.

Of course, Stagecoach had the same challenge but did as you say. They let the largest operations take the financial hit on new standard vehicles (usually Manchester) and then cascaded those to less lucrative areas (e.g. Devon, Gloucs, Northants). By doing so, it helped those fleets improve and generate better ridership to then allow organic replacement. That is the model that I expect First to employ.

I've said it before that assuming AC works his magic on First Kernow and it makes reasonable money, you *could* see new or nearly new fleet appear on routes like the 14/18. It's taken some time but no one can deny that things are changing in FDCS land. Guess the biggest question in AC's empire is Plymouth and how long the respective losses are incurred by First and Go Ahead?

2015 in Cornwall could be a very interesting place to watch
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

For the motorists passing perhaps - as far as I've seen the insides are à la Kernow, as it were! And hardly encouraging.

Well, I did have a few trip outs on BoS during the summer and don't fully recognise your views.

The worst examples were the B7Ls that have since migrated to Bath (where they still cry out for refurb).

The B6's that entered the fleet were generally pretty neat and tidy. The Tridents that I did experience (didn't travel on any ex Glasgow ones) were internally ok. Biggest issues with all are the terrible seats that First specified around that time.

As regards the Darts, the T reg ALXs are a bit shabby as are the East Lancs ones, so fair comment but the ex Hampshire ones seem in better nick than their years would indicate
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Given most saloons ordered by First in 2015 are likely to be lightweight buses, such as Streetlites, are they likely to be suitable for Cornwall's geography, or is it more likely that other opcos will release newish Volvos and get new Streetlites as replacements, where they can cope with the geography?

Remember, they've specified Streetlites for South Wales and that operating territory is as tough as Cornwall.

The bigger issue might be the replacement of Olympians with stuff like Tridents that seem distinctly asthmatic!

 

[Busaholic]

The western greyhound vario I rode on Friday had a number of seat cushions stuck together with duck tape on the other hand!

That's to stop anyone getting goosed for Christmas.