EU, Immigration and UKIP

[EM2]

If you note the other point in my post I am trying to say that Milliband's criticisms of Tax Cuts for Millionaires would be more credible if he admitted he and a lot of his associates fall into that category but are prepared to make a sacrifice for the greater good, rather than just berating Bankers.

Miliband criticises tax cuts for millionaires, even though he would personally benefit.
He endorses tax rises for millionaires, and taxes on expensive properties, even though he would suffer financially.
How is a tax cut for millionaires 'a sacrifice for the greater good'?

 

[bb21]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30224637

Net migration to UK rises to 260,000 in year to June

Net migration to the UK rose to 260,000 in the year to June - an increase of 78,000 on the previous year.

The figure is calculated by taking away the number of people leaving the country from the number coming in.

Prime Minister David Cameron has said he hoped to get net migration below 100,000 before the election in 2015.

But according to the data, 583,000 people immigrated to the UK in the last year - an increase of 45,000 from the EU and 30,000 from outside.

Net migration is now 16,000 higher than it was when the coalition government was formed in 2010.

...

More ammunition to UKIP?

 

[43021HST]

This is politics in this country all over though with the two main parties . As soon as anybody senior in either party starts going on about dodgy donors , elitist front benches ,party members with the biggest mansion or dodgiest expenses its just a race to who can breif the media about the most shocking stories first .

The people I actually feel sorry for are the Councillors and backbench MP's up and down the country trying their best for their constituents but because of the partisan nature of politics they are forced to choose a party and a side . But then because of party machinery and the whip system they get drawn into this system

Well said I entirely agree there. You can tell this is all descending into the typical pre-election media pettiness. Which is what UKIP ride on but the irony is they have the dodgiest, expenses, donors and MPs of the lot.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Which is what UKIP ride on but the irony is they have the dodgiest, expenses, donors and MPs of the lot.

Really? I'm not enamoured to either Carswell or Reckless, but there are surely worse examples of MPs, especially when it comes to questionable behavior.

 

[Butts]

Miliband criticises tax cuts for millionaires, even though he would personally benefit.
He endorses tax rises for millionaires, and taxes on expensive properties, even though he would suffer financially.
How is a tax cut for millionaires 'a sacrifice for the greater good'?

Sorry, they make the sacrifice by raising the taxes. What he seems to have amnesia about is the fact Labour only raised the Top Rate just before they left office.

 

[Jonny]

Miliband criticises tax cuts for millionaires, even though he would personally benefit.
He endorses tax rises for millionaires, and taxes on expensive properties, even though he would suffer financially.
How is a tax cut for millionaires 'a sacrifice for the greater good'?

If it either drives well-off people to leave the country and take their taxable income with them, or prompts them to re-arrange their affairs so that they legitimately pay less tax, then a tax cut for the well off will be beneficial.

As an aside, I seem to recall reading about someone whose income would have put him in the 50% tax bracket (although not mentioned in the media), but was still resorting to payday loans; See http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19660659 . If nothing else, it puts paid to the half-truth that cutting the top rate of tax is the same as a tax cut for millionaires.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30224637
More ammunition to UKIP?

I was quite interested in how inward immigration to Britain from both Bulgaria and from Romania had increased in comparison to the previous period.

 

[EM2]

http://newsthump.com/2014/11/28/uki...fits-whilst-simultaneously-stealing-your-job/

UKIP have updated Schrödinger’s famous thought experiment by insisting that immigrants exist in a state of both lazing around on benefits whilst simultaneously being out there stealing British jobs.

A UKIP spokesman declared the observation true until said immigrant is directly observed, and that there was a dire need for further studies on the phenomenon.

UKIP’s Roy Jenks explained, “These people clearly need further observation. EU bureaucrats in Brussels have somehow introduced ambiguous and confusing red tape that threatens our widely held lazy stereotypes.”

He continued “Some bloke down the pub who knows – for definite – told me that Romanians in particular have been stealing his job, and if that’s not bad enough, they’re also too lazy to work because cause they’re all on the dole.”

 

[Metrailway]

I was quite interested in how inward immigration to Britain from both Bulgaria and from Romania had increased in comparison to the previous period.

Bulgaria & Romania (EU2): from 14,000 in the previous year to 32,000 this year ending June 2014.

EU2 migration since 2007. Graph from ONS:

NINO registrations for the year ending September 2014 was the highest for Romanians at 103,850. This figure is up by 468% from September 2013.

NINO registrations for Bulgarians was 31,530 for the year ending September 2014. This is up by 205%.

Overall net long term migration increased from 182,000 to 260,000 this year ending 2014.

 

[Johnuk123]

Bulgaria & Romania (EU2): from 14,000 in the previous year to 32,000 this year ending June 2014.

EU2 migration since 2007. Graph from ONS:

NINO registrations for the year ending September 2014 was the highest for Romanians at 103,850. This figure is up by 468% from September 2013.

NINO registrations for Bulgarians was 31,530 for the year ending September 2014. This is up by 205%.

Overall net long term migration increased from 182,000 to 260,000 this year ending 2014.

Considering children aren't counted and considering the many many thousands of illegals entering every year you can probably double that figure.

It always amazes me that we have a country where nobody knows the population only a rough guess. Estimates are it could be 5 million more than the latest guess.

 

[EM2]

Estimates are it could be 5 million more than the latest guess.

Whose estimates?

 

[Johnuk123]

Whose estimates?

That 5 million figure is regularly used, only last week Sky had a University professor on who said he thought the true figure was 3-5 million more than the official estimate.

There certainly can't ever be a definite figure because anybody on a visa who doesn't leave will rarely be caught unless they admit it.

All the short term student visas for instance are not monitored, the UK just assumes they've left when the visa runs out.

So a person who overstays a visa is not counted simply because nobody knows if they're here or not, anyway no Government would ever want to admit the population is miles bigger than the official estimate.

 

[Antman]

Considering children aren't counted and considering the many many thousands of illegals entering every year you can probably double that figure.

It always amazes me that we have a country where nobody knows the population only a rough guess. Estimates are it could be 5 million more than the latest guess.

Exactly, I've lived in the London area all my life and the overcrowding everywhere is just chronic and UKIP are the only ones addressing the issue, both Cameron and Milliband fiddle whilst Rome burns:cry:

 

[Oswyntail]

That 5 million figure is regularly used, only last week Sky had a University professor on who said he thought the true figure was 3-5 million more than the official estimate.....

Exactly. Official figures are basically nothing more than a rough finger in the air (so could be over-counting by 5 million). So you wheel in a "University Professor" (is there any other kind?) who sticks his finger in the air and says something different. Then you refer to the "many many thousands of illegals", whose numbers, by definition, are unknown, but, hey, why not add a few million or two.
The fact is, you don't know, I don't know, and, sure as hell, your Professor doesn't know how many, if any, illegal immigrants enter this country each year. Try this simple challenge: go outside and spot an "immigrant". 100% certain you are right? Of course you are, but here's the tricky bit. Can you find the label, tattooed on him somewhere, that says he is "illegal"? Tricky isn't it. To maintain that 1 in every 14 of the UK population is an illegal immigrant is taking paranoia a bit far.

 

[EM2]

Exactly, I've lived in the London area all my life and the overcrowding everywhere is just chronic and UKIP are the only ones addressing the issue, both Cameron and Milliband fiddle whilst Rome burns:cry:

Here's a question for you.
If the increase in London's population had been solely due to movement of UK-born people from other areas of the country, would you still say that London is suffering from chronic overcrowding everywhere?

 

[Antman]

Here's a question for you.
If the increase in London's population had been solely due to movement of UK-born people from other areas of the country, would you still say that London is suffering from chronic overcrowding everywhere?

That's an irrelevant question but yes I would

 

[EM2]

So therefore, your issue isn't actually the number of people that are in the country, it's that infrastructure and services haven't kept pace with population growth.

 

[Antman]

So therefore, your issue isn't actually the number of people that are in the country, it's that infrastructure and services haven't kept pace with population growth.

We can go round and round in circles for evermore but as I said before London and the south east are overpopulated and something needs to be done sooner rather than later, it's not about race it's about space

 

[ralphchadkirk]

What's the numerical definition of overcrowded?


Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

 

[DynamicSpirit]

it's not about race it's about space

If it's all about space, and not about race, then why are you only arguing for restrictions on *foreign* immigration into the UK? Why are you not also arguing for restrictions on - say - people moving from the North of England, or from Scotland, to the London and the SE? After all, a person moving from Northern England to London has exactly the same effect on population as does a person moving from France to London.

 

[Metrailway]

If it's all about space, and not about race, then why are you only arguing for restrictions on *foreign* immigration into the UK? Why are you not also arguing for restrictions on - say - people moving from the North of England, or from Scotland, to the London and the SE? After all, a person moving from Northern England to London has exactly the same effect on population as does a person moving from France to London.

In terms of internal migration, London had a net outflow of 55,027 for the year ending June 2013. (Most recent ONS figures)

 

[Antman]

If it's all about space, and not about race, then why are you only arguing for restrictions on *foreign* immigration into the UK? Why are you not also arguing for restrictions on - say - people moving from the North of England, or from Scotland, to the London and the SE? After all, a person moving from Northern England to London has exactly the same effect on population as does a person moving from France to London.

Oh come on that's ridiculous, you cannot possibly prevent people from moving from one part of the country to another

 

[NSEFAN]

Oh come on that's ridiculous, you cannot possibly prevent people from moving from one part of the country to another

Remember the Berlin Wall?

 

[Antman]

Remember the Berlin Wall?

Ah yes.......how about the 'Watford Wall' to keep those northerners out

 

[NSEFAN]

Ah yes.......how about the 'Watford Wall' to keep those northerners out

Or the southerners in, depending how you look at things

 

[Oswyntail]

Oh come on that's ridiculous, you cannot possibly prevent people from moving from one part of the country to another

And thus he sidestepped the point entirely:roll:

 

[Antman]

And thus he sidestepped the point entirely:roll:

Who sidestepped what?

 

[Oswyntail]

Who sidestepped what?

You sidestepped the point you are actually objecting to foreigners doing the overcrowding. You would not, apparently, object to British migrants

 

[Antman]

You sidestepped the point you are actually objecting to foreigners doing the overcrowding. You would not, apparently, object to British migrants

British migrants?

So how do you propose that we prevent northerners migrating to the south east? Of course some southerners move in the opposite direction, and possibly even keep coal int buthtob

 

[Oswyntail]

British migrants?

So how do you propose that we prevent northerners migrating to the south east? Of course some southerners move in the opposite direction, and possibly even keep coal int buthtob

I am not proposing we prevent such migration deliberately, as you well understand. Simply suggesting that you are objecting to migration simply on where the migrants come from