Some interesting stuff (different ways of getting to Wearside and Teesside than existing Grand Central services).
And, thankfully and end to the "you can't run franchise x if you already run franchise y" nonsense that we keep seeing brought up (or the "First Group were promised East Coast as consolation prize for losing West Coast/ ScotRail" conspiracy theory guff).
No additional services to Dundee/ Aberdeen, no Scarborough services (as consolation for them losing their TPE services to Manchester/ Liverpool), no "Sheffield via Retford" (something that Virgin proposed around the Millennium time), no bi-hourly Lincoln service, no "Manchester via Huddersfield" service (just Leeds - Huddersfield) - a few rumours don't seem to have come true.
Worth reiterating that the "
...but DOR paid a premium, why are we paying a private company instead" argument falls down in the face of the fact that Stagecoach are paying £3.3bn of premium over eight years, compared to £1bn over five years premium from DOR).
Of course the Enthusiast reaction will either be "they've overbid, so they'll be handing the keys back" or "they've underbid and we'd have got more premium with public ownership - the private sector can't win in some people's eyes.
I say that because a lot of people's minds were made up before hand (regardless of what was in the actual bid). E.g. the Mick Cash quote in the Guardian:
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...oach-east-coast-inter-city-rail-franchise-win
While domestic public ownership puts money back into the coffers that can be reinvested in our railways, the private operators, overwhelmingly owned and controlled by European state rail outfits, suck out colossal sums in subsidies and profits thats what privatisation means
...don't worry about the fact that this private sector bid will pay *more* into Government coffers than DOR did, Mick
Still, don't let facts get in the way of ideology.
We did well with this one, page 4 before "what colour will the trains be!!" Kleenex time....
I'm a bit disappointed by the thread - I still have "IEP will smell of poo" and "does this mean 350s on the ECML" until I have Forum Bingo!
Grand Central's heartland is certainly under threat so they are going to have to be clever - filling their trains up at £20-£30 a pop may not be a sound long-term plan! I think the new services to Huddersfield, Bradford, Sunderland and Middlesbrough are the obvious ones being the largest towns just off the ECML without a direct London service by the franchised operator, so expansion to these places makes sense in its own right rather than primarily as an attempt to kill off GC, and it's innovation like this which makes for an atrractive bid
True - and GC can't complain about "competition" if the dominant operator decides not to roll over and cede market share.
With East Coast (VEC? SEC?) actually running to Huddersfield (rather than Mirfield/ Brighouse) that could take a big chunk of the Kirklees trade from Grand Central, depending on the timing of the service.
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It depends how you perceive the market.
Stagecoach own the East Coast franchise, the West Coast franchise and the East Midlands franchise, meaning finding a competitor train company is a challenge.
So you decide to take the coach. Guess who owns Megabus?
Since there are practically no places where you'd consider a journey to London via the ECML, MML
and WCML, that's irrelevant.
If you are travelling from Newcastle or Liverpool or Leicester then the fact that another railway line is run by the same company is irrelevant.
We cope with one company running all services from Brighton to London, or Swindon to London or Ipswich to London, after all.
(and Megabus are trivially small compared to National Express, but don't let that spoil your rant)
