South West Trains disruption

[hassaanhc]

Wrong. I could say but I won't. Don't PM asking I won't say. All I can tell you is you are wrong.

Oh well . Does sound like ammunition for conspiracy theorists though :P

 

[fairysdad]

Perhaps the platform is too short for the train, so under normal circumstances, only the first unit of the train opens its doors, and it's the first unit that's missing so the remaining 'back' unit wasn't due to stop there anyway?

*gets coat*

 

[infobleep]

More disruption today. Despite all the attempts at stopping leaves from delaying trains, the leaves and weather won today. On Twitter they are reporting up to 10 minute delays due to leaf contamination. At least 2 trains cancelled or partly cancelled. Surprised to hear it's not frost as it's very cold outside. It's actually more than 10 minute delays for some trains of course. I actually didn't arrive into Surbiton any later today than last week, in fact it was earlier than some days last week! I was on the 7.45 from Guildford which was slightly late. Then boarded the held up 8.02 from Woking and was then no more delayed than at any point last week.

The 8.04 from Guildford via Cobham was struggling though. That got held up leaving and then kept losing time.

 

[hassaanhc]

More disruption today. Despite all the attempts at stopping leaves from delaying trains, the leaves and weather won today. On Twitter they are reporting up to 10 minute delays due to leaf contamination. At least 2 trains cancelled or partly cancelled. Surprised to hear it's not frost as it's very cold outside. It's actually more than 10 minute delays for some trains of course. I actually didn't arrive into Surbiton any later today than last week, in fact it was earlier than some days last week! I was on the 7.45 from Guildford which was slightly late. Then boarded the held up 8.02 from Woking and was then no more delayed than at any point last week.

The 8.04 from Guildford via Cobham was struggling though. That got held up leaving and then kept losing time.

Might not have been frost on the conductor rails, but there might have been some frost or dew on the running rails, which combined with the leaves. I think the 0804 or another nearby train terminated at Effingham Junction! Issues with poor rail conditions also reported at Surbiton, plus cancellations at Shepperton.

 

[infobleep]

Might not have been frost on the conductor rails, but there might have been some frost or dew on the running rails, which combined with the leaves. I think the 0804 or another nearby train terminated at Effingham Junction! Issues with poor rail conditions also reported at Surbiton, plus cancellations at Shepperton.

Perhaps in future years they will have to introduce leaf fall timetable for Shepperton trains and all trains that pass through Surbiton, not just the Cobham line ones.

I know Thameslink do or at least use to, have leaf fall timetable changes for first few services of the morning from Brighton. Perhaps something similar might be needed for services running through Surbiton. So just at certain times of the day they allow more time.

No clue how they'd fit it into the timetable but they managed to do something for the Cobham line.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

Perhaps in future years they will have to introduce leaf fall timetable for Shepperton trains and all trains that pass through Surbiton, not just the Cobham line ones.

I know Thameslink do or at least use to, have leaf fall timetable changes for first few services of the morning from Brighton. Perhaps something similar might be needed for services running through Surbiton. So just at certain times of the day they allow more time.

No clue how they'd fit it into the timetable but they managed to do something for the Cobham line.

There is also a leaf fall timetable on the Windsor lines, trains leave/arrive at the country end a few minutes early/late so the Waterloo timings stay the same.

 

[455driver]

Perhaps in future years they will have to introduce leaf fall timetable for Shepperton trains and all trains that pass through Surbiton, not just the Cobham line ones.

There is no slack in the timetables (8 minute turn arounds) to allow for re-timing the Sheppies, the 'other ' trains through Surbiton will conflict with other trains at Woking so cant be re-timed either!
Didnt we do this last year, and the year before?

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

There is no slack in the timetables (8 minute turn arounds) to allow for re-timing the Sheppies, the 'other ' trains through Surbiton will conflict with other trains at Woking so cant be re-timed either!

Didnt we do this last year, and the year before?

Yes, the service in winter on the Shepperton line seems to have got worse in recent years.

On Sunday the line flooded again at Fulwell and I had planned to go out on the train yesterday, but there were problems/cancellation on the SHP line again, so I did not bother. I don't remember there being so many problems when the much older slam door trains were the network, the new trains may have some advantages, but they don't seem to be able to cope as well as the old train did re bad weather, leaf fall etc.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Here's a better idea.

Shepperton's only run to/from either Kingston & Twickenham, so one (just for example) leaves at xx:00 and calls all shacks to Twickenham, the other xx:30 calls all shacks to Kingston with a convenient connection at either Strawberry Hill or Teddington with the looper's.

Too many trains, not enough track and the Kingston loop trains get in the way of the more important mainline services, so they're lower priority and so get the chop.

 

[infobleep]

There is no slack in the timetables (8 minute turn arounds) to allow for re-timing the Sheppies, the 'other ' trains through Surbiton will conflict with other trains at Woking so cant be re-timed either!
Didnt we do this last year, and the year before?

Probably but people have short term memories.

I don't remember trains on the Alton branch being retimed last year to allow leaf cleaning trains through though but again short term memory applies. Lol.

 

[hassaanhc]

Probably but people have short term memories.

I don't remember trains on the Alton branch being retimed last year to allow leaf cleaning trains through though but again short term memory applies. Lol.

They have said the Alton branch changes are new, as last year they often missed the night slots due to engineering work and then trains got into difficulty.

 

[455driver]

Probably but people have short term memories.

I don't remember trains on the Alton branch being retimed last year to allow leaf cleaning trains.

There is a gap about dinner time when a service termonates at Farnham instead of Alton so the oil train can run, it happens every weekday despite the oil train only running a couple of times a week!
So passenger trains do get cut to allow freight to run!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Here's a better idea.

Shepperton's only run to/from either Kingston & Twickenham, so one (just for example) leaves at xx:00 and calls all shacks to Twickenham, the other xx:30 calls all shacks to Kingston with a convenient connection at either Strawberry Hill or Teddington with the looper's.

Too many trains, not enough track and the Kingston loop trains get in the way of the more important mainline services, so they're lower priority and so get the chop.

Too many pssengers to have them changing like that, they would be left behind on the platform.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

There is a gap about dinner time when a service termonates at Farnham instead of Alton so the oil train can run, it happens every weekday despite the oil train only running a couple of times a week!
So passenger trains do get cut to allow freight to run!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Too many pssengers to have them changing like that, they would be left behind on the platform.

Oh please..Oh please!

 

[455driver]

Oh please..Oh please!

I knew what your reply would be before I posted that!

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I knew what your reply would be before I posted that!

You just know me too darn well.

 

[infobleep]

They have said the Alton branch changes are new, as last year they often missed the night slots due to engineering work and then trains got into difficulty.

That makes sense as I thought they were new. As an aside, how do they managed to run the trains at night on other lines. I assume it's purely due to the single track nature of the Alton branch end part. Their is of course also a single line to Exeter but that has passing loops.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Today the major delay is at Epsom. Surprised that only Southern customers are allowed to use First Great Western. Surely that route would benefit South West Trains customers too.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/87334.aspx

Alternative routes where tickets will be accepted

Southern passengers may use First Great Western between Redhill and Guildford, South West Trains on reasonable routes and also*London Buses*between Epsom and Sutton.South West Trains passengers may use*London Buses*on reasonable routes,*London Underground*between Morden and London Waterloo and also Southern services on reasonable routes

Minor delays continuing as usual. My train was 6 minutes late into Clapham Junction last night. Despite the larger gap offered to recover from leaf fall delays, my train was just as late arriving into Surbiton as it was at Hinchley Wood. Not sure why it wasn't able to use the larger hap to make up the lost time. Will be some valid reason as trains don't run late for fun! This being the 17.11 Surbiton to Waterloo service. At least first class is declassified on that train at the moment.

 

[Steveo77]

so has anyone got any confidence that the new points they are putting in at Wimbledon will improve services ?
certainly there seems to be big problems during the rush hour in this area

 

[455driver]

so has anyone got any confidence that the new points they are putting in at Wimbledon will improve services ?
certainly there seems to be big problems during the rush hour in this area

The points dont get used at Wimbledon during the rush hour, the trains just run straight on the same line!

 

[sadgit]

Any word on what's actually happening with regards to the engineering works? It was stated that there would be no rail service between Clapham Junction and Surbiton on weekends in January and February, but I tested the usual times of journeys I make on NRE and it said nothing about there being any replacement bus services...

 

[infobleep]

Over running engineering works between Guildford and Portsmouth today. National Rail Enquiries state delays to services when services are not delayed or if they are is by 2 minutes. Some have however had stations cancelled as a result I assume of being been rerouted via Eastleigh.

Surprised they managed to run the Haslemere to Waterloo service leaves Guildford 6.53). They started it from Woking. I imagine passengers had no way to get to Woking mind you. That being the last fast train to Clapham Junction. The 6.24 did run from Guildford at least, just not Haslemere. They did well to get the train to Guildford. 6.31 missed Guildford though.

The 6.47 was the first train north from Haslemere, the 6.28 being the first train south.

The first train north from Witley was the 7.16. Usually it's the 5.27. I guess not enough people travel from Witley to make it worth stopping trains there additionally. Same goes for Milford.

Also surprisingly they didn't reroute the Cross Country service, which left Guildford 25 minutes late.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Interestingly due to the problems there was a 444 sat on platform 6/7 [single line] at Guildford. This meant free wifi for those in the know standing next to the train.

As usual the 7.45 Guildford service was delayed but not by the First Great Western Reading or SWT Alton services but a broken down train at Clandon. Just to prove how complicated this all is, the 7.13 to Waterloo from Guildford broke down at Clandon for 13 minutes. That in turn delayed the 7.24 London Bridge service by 11 minutes and the 7.33 Waterloo service by 4 minutes. This in turn meant the service that makes up the 7.58 Epsom service had to go into platform 3, the platform normally used by the 7.45 fast to Waterloo.

Now most hours their is a 47 minutes past service but because the one this hour stops additionally at Worpolesden it leaves at 7.45. Now because their is a 7.43 to Reading service, they put the 7.45 into platform 3 rather than platform 5, as platform 5 would mean it couldn't leave until 7.46 at the earliest. The Reading service uses platform 8 but their must be some restrictions covering platforms 5 to 8. Today platform 3 was blocked so the 7.45 got slightly delayed. It arrived late into Woking but managed to leave within a minute of its booked time so it shouldn't delay the 7.59 or 8.02 services to London from Woking.

Now someone tell me it's easy running the railways. No wonder so many trains get slightly delayed to severely delayed.

 

[nowananorack]

The problems a couple of weeks ago were related to the new 'up relief' line being opened between Southampton Airport and Eastleigh, in fact I think all the issues recently on the SWML have been infrastructure related.

The creation and opening of the 'up relief' road between Eastleigh Airport (Southampton Parkway) and Eastleigh seems to have taken a long time. Anyone know why?

 

[nlogax]

Any word on what's actually happening with regards to the engineering works? It was stated that there would be no rail service between Clapham Junction and Surbiton on weekends in January and February, but I tested the usual times of journeys I make on NRE and it said nothing about there being any replacement bus services...

SWT summarise the plans here; http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/84820.aspx

Looks like NRE has it. A random Surbs > W'loo weekend search brings up the replacement buses.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

The points dont get used at Wimbledon during the rush hour, the trains just run straight on the same line!

Not that Wimbledon ASC or Woking regulate properly anyway. You could put a load of shop mannequins in there and a computer and no one would be able to tell the difference.:roll:

 

[LBSCR Times]

Not that Wimbledon ASC or Woking regulate properly anyway. You could put a load of shop mannequins in there and a computer and no one would be able to tell the difference.:roll:

And if a signaller regulates accordingly, and causes further delay, then the subsequent delay is attributed to the signaller, and not the root cause.
Hence the reluctance often to regulate, unless requested by Control, and then the subsequent delay goes to them!

 

[455driver]

And if a signaller regulates accordingly, and causes further delay, then the subsequent delay is attributed to the signaller, and not the root cause.
Hence the reluctance often to regulate, unless requested by Control, and then the subsequent delay goes to them!

One of my pet hates, the signaller uses their judgement with the available information and when it goes wrong they get slapped with an O code but the 95% of times they get it right they hear nothing!

Let the signallers regulate as they have the best view of the situation (much more than some wally in 'control') and can use their local knowledge (soon to be lost in the name of ROC) to minimise overall delay even if it does share the delay around a bit more.

I can see and understand why its nearly always 'booked order drive' and dont blame them one bit!

 

[infobleep]

One of my pet hates, the signaller uses their judgement with the available information and when it goes wrong they get slapped with an O code but the 95% of times they get it right they hear nothing!

Let the signallers regulate as they have the best view of the situation (much more than some wally in 'control') and can use their local knowledge (soon to be lost in the name of ROC) to minimise overall delay even if it does share the delay around a bit more.

I can see and understand why its nearly always 'booked order drive' and dont blame them one bit!

At times the signalmen do, do some good stuff when it comes to trying to minimise train delays. Letting our 8.02 stopping service to Surbiton leave before the delayed 7.59 fast service arrived.

Occasionally things don't go right. Being left on a slow line on a fast train after the signalman let a slow train depart in front of us wasn't much fun. That's only happened once or twice since I've been travelling over the last 18 months from Surbiton though.

The other evening, Friday, the 18.40 left Surbiton on time. An extremely rare event. Sadly it was the one evening where I was later leaving work so couldn't catch it. Turns out they let it depart Waterloo before the Exeter service that usually holds it up at Clapham Junction. Despite leaving Subriton on time thought it was still 7 minutes late into Woking but at least it shows they do make an effort to get trains departing on time.

Wasn't sure why all the trains were late that evening but some problem not considered to important to put on NRE will be the reason.

 

[SPADTrap]

At times the signalmen do, do some good stuff when it comes to trying to minimise train delays. Letting our 8.02 stopping service to Surbiton leave before the delayed 7.59 fast service arrived.

Occasionally things don't go right. Being left on a slow line on a fast train after the signalman let a slow train depart in front of us wasn't much fun. That's only happened once or twice since I've been travelling over the last 18 months from Surbiton though.

The other evening, Friday, the 18.40 left Surbiton on time. An extremely rare event. Sadly it was the one evening where I was later leaving work so couldn't catch it. Turns out they let it depart Waterloo before the Exeter service that usually holds it up at Clapham Junction. Despite leaving Subriton on time thought it was still 7 minutes late into Woking but at least it shows they do make an effort to get trains departing on time.

Wasn't sure why all the trains were late that evening but some problem not considered to important to put on NRE will be the reason.

Doesn't your good/bad on part of the signaler in that example just depend what happens to the train your on?

 

[infobleep]

Doesn't your good/bad on part of the signaler in that example just depend what happens to the train your on?

Of course. Lol. To be fair it's very hard for me to know why we couldn't be put on the fast lines when other times we could be and why they let the slow service run in front of us all the way to Woking, delaying us by over 20 minutes. I don't work in the signal centres. Even if I did, I doubt I'd do a better job.

I remember one evening when a London Midland train was 30 mins late leaving Tring so they cancelled all stops between there and Euston. Literally the next night it was just as delayed and they cancelled no stops at all. Now control would have done that but it highlights how just because something helpful to me could be done one day, doesn't mean it will be done the next. I imagine the same applies to signalman. They do try and there are things they can do which end up benefitting me but it doesn't always mean they will for reasons I don't know about because I'm not working there. For example diverting the 18.58 Woking to Portsmouth service onto platform 4; letting it go before the 18.54 Basingstoke service on platform 5 and then making it wait south of Woking so the 18.54 can go ahead doesn't help me. What would help me is letting the 18.54 go first so I can run round to board the 18.58, which is going to be held up anyway.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

And if a signaller regulates accordingly, and causes further delay, then the subsequent delay is attributed to the signaller, and not the root cause.
Hence the reluctance often to regulate, unless requested by Control, and then the subsequent delay goes to them!

And the flipside of this rubbish called TDA is that where you might only have 1 or 2 late runners, you end up with in SWTs case 30 or more. TDA is a complete load of BS and should be scrapped, its just a legalised money laundering exercise and actually wastes time & money.

Signallers should be allowed to regulate freely and if they get things running more smoothly then they should get a bonus. Because at the current rate of FU's they should be paying us!

 

[infobleep]

More South West Trains disruption this morning. Looks like some trains cancelled unless that was due to train faults. For once it doesn't say why.

Not sure of the reason for the earlier delays but currently the delays of up to 12 minutes are due to earlier delays. That's mentioned on South West Trains Web Site but isn't important enough to be mentioned on National Rail Enquiries.

Yesterday a passenger was taken ill at Earlsfield. South West Trains are not having it easy.

Hopefully the leaves will cease to be such a problem soon because the leaf fall timetable is coming to an end shortly. This morning the 8.33 was 2 minutes late into Surbiton. Without the leaf fall timetable I guess one would add another 3 minutes onto that delay.