UKIP coalition post May 2015???

[Manchester77]

Which particular "design" are you referring to - there have been multiple reorganisations since it's inception after the War.

If you are referring to the PFI contacts where the NHS has to pay exorbitant amounts of money to the Companies that built a lot of the premises, where are you going to get the Billions of pounds necessary to buy them out of the contracts.

No I'm not referring to the disaster that is PFI, I'm referring to the effects the 1990 NHS & community care act have had on the NHS by inflicting the internal market onto the NHS. This was the 'enabling act' which paved the way for PFI and ultimately the 2012 Health and Social Care Act with its forced tendering through 'Any Qualified Provider'.

If you were to scrap the internal market straight away you lose the many accountants and lawyers that are associated with it; saving the NHS £10.9bn per year. The 2010 Health Select Committee found that running the NHS as a ‘market’ cost the NHS 14% of it’s budget a year. How this can be argued as a good thing is beyond me when surely you should be spending as little as possible on administration and the maximum possible on patient care. Not billions on a market within the NHS or even millions on legal cases due to contract awards.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Hypothetical discussions with strongly-held personal views are fine, but I prefer to await the actual results of the General Election, as there could well be matters taking place in the few months leading up to this event that could be seen to sway the electorate.

 

[Deerfold]

Murray N. Rothbard, a notable economist, wrote this about the other problem with Socialism - lack of incentives:

from http://mises.org/library/end-sociali...bate-revisited
If, for example, everyone under socialism were to receive an equal income, or, in another variant, everyone was supposed to produce "according to his ability" but receive "according to his needs," then, to sum it up in the famous question: Who, under socialism, will take out the garbage? That is, what will be the incentive to do the grubby jobs, and, furthermore, to do them well? Or, to put it another way, what would be the incentive to work hard and be productive at any job?

Ah, so the incentive for bin men under capitalism is that they're paid more to do a grubby job?

Hmm, funny - looks like most of them (if they're not in Birmingham) get about half the UK average wage.

 

[NSEFAN]

Ah, so the incentive for bin men under capitalism is that they're paid more to do a grubby job?

Hmm, funny - looks like most of them (if they're not in Birmingham) get about half the UK average wage.

Ahh, but if we took away those meddling government regulations on wages, nobody would collect the rubbish and the wages of bin men would have to go up. Supply and demand will make the market sort itself out, the bin men will end up better paid and we will all pay the true cost of rubbish collection!

Let's just conveniently forget that most people have poor financial sense, especially those who are already poor.

 

[Greenback]

I wish we could get away from the convenient capitalist idea that everyone only works at a particular job for money. Other incentives to choose to work in supposedly less desirable jobs could be shorter working hours, more convenient working hours, working outdoors, or working with minimal supervision.

Compared to some jobs, like working round the clock shifts in a call centre in Swansea for £14000, I can see refuse collection as a pretty good option.

Anyway, back on topic, I don't think that UKIP will be a credible threat at the election. People will revert to Labour or Conservative rather than register a protest vote as is likely to happen in a by election.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Norway has had a surplus of oil revenue that has funded some fairly lavish social programme

The same oil and gas revenue that we have. Well, had. John Major managed to chuck most of it up the wall in the mid-90s.

An underlying issue was the lack of supply of residential accommodation that has sent prices and rents through the roof in recent years, that brewed up on Labour's watch.

Interesting piece of revisionism there.

Most of the rental price problems you see in London can be attributed to two things: The 1980 Housing Act, creating the Right To Buy but banning local authorities from re-investing the proceeds, and the 1988 Housing Act which abolished security of tenure for private tenants.

The first piece of legislation took affordable rental property out of circulation, meaning more people were forced into private rental. And the second piece of legislation created the "assured shorthold" tenancy scheme we have now, where you can be booted out of your home with two months' notice for absolutely no reason.

Both of these issues created the property boom of the late-80s, which crashed so spectactularly in about 1993. We're seeing another Conservative-powered property boom now in London, with Economics George standing inflating it even more with his idiotic "Help to Buy Votes" scheme.

But yeah, it's Labour who caused it :roll:

 

[St Rollox]

Every vote for Ukip helps Ed into Number 10.
Which is quiet funny considering Ed has worse poll ratings than Michael Foot.

 

[radamfi]

Every vote for Ukip helps Ed into Number 10.

Because of the stupid voting system.

 

[Butts]

The same oil and gas revenue that we have. Well, had. John Major managed to chuck most of it up the wall in the mid-90s.



Interesting piece of revisionism there.

Most of the rental price problems you see in London can be attributed to two things: The 1980 Housing Act, creating the Right To Buy but banning local authorities from re-investing the proceeds, and the 1988 Housing Act which abolished security of tenure for private tenants.

The first piece of legislation took affordable rental property out of circulation, meaning more people were forced into private rental. And the second piece of legislation created the "assured shorthold" tenancy scheme we have now, where you can be booted out of your home with two months' notice for absolutely no reason.

Both of these issues created the property boom of the late-80s, which crashed so spectactularly in about 1993. We're seeing another Conservative-powered property boom now in London, with Economics George standing inflating it even more with his idiotic "Help to Buy Votes" scheme.

But yeah, it's Labour who caused it :roll:

Well they certainly didn't do anything to repeal the legislation you mentioned or sort the problem out during their 13 year tenure from 1997-2010

 

[Jonny]

Ah, so the incentive for bin men under capitalism is that they're paid more to do a grubby job?

Hmm, funny - looks like most of them (if they're not in Birmingham) get about half the UK average wage.

Well, it's a bit more complicated since a travesty of a court ruling meant that their work is treated as being of "equal value" to dinner ladies ( !!! ).
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Every vote for Ukip helps Ed into Number 10.
Which is quiet funny considering Ed has worse poll ratings than Michael Foot.

Even if it sees a Labour incumbent MP replaced by one from UKIP? I can see a few seats moving from Labour to UKIP...
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Plus they don't try to pass themselves off as a world power.
See Trident.

For me, Trident is not about the money - having it creates the risk of being nuked, a risk that simply isn't worth it anymore. Back in the cold war, it was justified but now it's more trouble than it's worth. I could say a similar thing about Britain as a world power...

Also, I find it interesting that Nicola Sturgeon has objected to any replacement being "on the Clyde". Assuming that some kind of nuclear deterrent is non-negotiable, would somewhere like Fort William or Ullapool be OK?

 

[Butts]

Can UKIP really win 50 seats at the forthcoming General Election ?

Is their current "electoral roll" inhibiting the ability of other parties to criticise them as they surely cannot do this without at the same time castigating those who vote for them - potential voters for themselves

 

[Jonny]

Both of these issues created the property boom of the late-80s, which crashed so spectactularly in about 1993. We're seeing another Conservative-powered property boom now in London, with Economics George standing inflating it even more with his idiotic "Help to Buy Votes" scheme.

But yeah, it's Labour who caused it :roll:

Well, they certainly did nothing about it and they were happy for accommodation prices to keep sky-rocketing while the money from equity withdrawal (home-owners taking out new loans on their house and/or expanding their mortgages in order to draw more cash) was sloshing round the economy, creating a credit-fuelled boom that was doomed to disaster. To follow on from Butts' point, Labour did precisely nothing to put the situation right.
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Can UKIP really win 50 seats at the forthcoming General Election ?

Is their current "electoral roll" inhibiting the ability of other parties to criticise them as they surely cannot do this without at the same time castigating those who vote for them - potential voters for themselves

It has come out close to or ahead of Labour in a lot of areas - I can see Hartlepool, Darlington and/or Middlesborough going to UKIP, and also possibly a good chunk of Tyne and Wear and even one or two from County Durham - all at Labour's expense. And that's just in the North East...

 

[deltic]

Definatly not! Natalie Bennett has confirmed that if they have enough MPs they will not do a 'liberal democrats' and sell out on their ideology just to get a little bit of power.

virtually every political party has entered into a coalition with every other party in local government - there are even Conservative-Labour coalitions. Its not selling out on ideology to compromise in a coalition.

 

[St Rollox]

Would be bemused if Ukip got even one MP elected in the North East.
Sounds more like wishful thinking.
Unless of course the local Labour Party has completely collapsed.
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[ainsworth74]

virtually every political party has entered into a coalition with every other party in local government - there are even Conservative-Labour coalitions. Its not selling out on ideology to compromise in a coalition.

Yes but that doesn't sell newspapers and indeed makes it harder for people to be tribal when it comes to politics so we'll have less of this talk of coalitions not necessarily being a bad thing thank you very much!

 

[Jonny]

Would be bemused if Ukip got even one MP elected in the North East.
Sounds more like wishful thinking.
Unless of course the local Labour Party has completely collapsed.
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Firstly, several of the euro election constituencies, particluarly in the Tees Valley, had UKIP ahead of Labour. Some of them map exactly to parliamentary constituencies, and others are close.

It's not just regional - UKIP gave Labour a run for their money recently in Greater Manchester as well. The 2015 election will be very interesting "up north"; http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...errify-labour-even-now-some-remain-complacent

At a national level, Labour are running out of ideas though. Coming from North-East England, I would say that many feel "taken for granted" and have been looking for an alternative.

Also, I would point out that in areas with a Conservative incumbent MP, it is better to stay Conservative than risk tipping Labour over the line.

On the other hand, the further North someone is, the the higher proportion of UKIP's support has come from previous Labour supporters.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Well they certainly didn't do anything to repeal the legislation you mentioned or sort the problem out during their 13 year tenure from 1997-2010

They did one thing: they made it a legal requirement for a landlord to put a tenancy deposit in a registered protection scheme. The old scheme was simply "sue the landlord if you don't get it back". Unfortunately they left a glaring loophole in the law which, to their credit, the Conservatives fixed in 2011.

Firstly, several of the euro election constituencies, particluarly in the Tees Valley, had UKIP ahead of Labour. Some of them map exactly to parliamentary constituencies, and others are close.

A protest vote in an election nobody gives a stuff about is different to an election that really counts. The BNP managed to get themselves elected in Europe too, in the north west.

Labour supporters won't vote UKIP in case they get more Cameron, just like Tory supporters won't vote UKIP in case they get Beaker.

 

[Butts]

They did one thing: they made it a legal requirement for a landlord to put a tenancy deposit in a registered protection scheme. The old scheme was simply "sue the landlord if you don't get it back". Unfortunately they left a glaring loophole in the law which, to their credit, the Conservatives fixed in 2011.


A protest vote in an election nobody gives a stuff about is different to an election that really counts. The BNP managed to get themselves elected in Europe too, in the north west.

Labour supporters won't vote UKIP in case they get more Cameron, just like Tory supporters won't vote UKIP in case they get Beaker.

Blimey it must have choked you to post that

 

[Tetchytyke]

Ha. No, credit where credit is due. I have no problems with anyone who wants to bring in sensible progressive legislation!

 

[St Rollox]

I'd advise any Labour supporters in the North of England to avoid Ukip completely if the believe in the UK.
Every Labour seat lost helps the SNP.
You have been warned.

 

[Jonny]

I'd advise any Labour supporters in the North of England to avoid Ukip completely if the believe in the UK.
Every Labour seat lost helps the SNP.
You have been warned.

I take it you mean that if the UK as a whole wishes to leave the EU, which UKIP stands for, then Scotland may wish to stay in the EU or become independent in order to rejoin.

Scotland's main asset is its oil reserves, they are going to become less valuable over time particularly if fracking becomes widespread and opens English reserves up.