Class 387

[317 forever]

Railway Gazette

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...dier-sign-gatwick-express-train-contract.html

A notable comment here is the plan for most Bedford-Brighton trains already to go over to 387/1 next year.

The 387/2s should be built to GoVia Gatwick Express spec and seems likely to have substantially different seating.

 

[swt_passenger]

A notable comment here is the plan for most Bedford-Brighton trains already to go over to 387/1 next year.

The article says most Bedford - Brighton trains will be Electrostars, that's not just 387/1s, but will include most of the 377/2 and 377/5 already on the route.

 

[Bald Rick]

The article says most Bedford - Brighton trains will be Electrostars, that's not just 387/1s, but will include most of the 377/2 and 377/5 already on the route.

AIUI, all Bedford - Brighton services* will be either 387s or 377s, mostly the former, by early next year.

* of course from early next year the number of Bedford - Brighton services is halved to 2 tph in the standard off peak hour. But 387s / 377s will also operate the Bedford - Three Bridges (2 tph) and London Bridge - Brighton (2tph).

 

[Aictos]

AIUI, all Bedford - Brighton services* will be either 387s or 377s, mostly the former, by early next year.

* of course from early next year the number of Bedford - Brighton services is halved to 2 tph in the standard off peak hour. But 387s / 377s will also operate the Bedford - Three Bridges (2 tph) and London Bridge - Brighton (2tph).

To throw some more light on this, there was a internal brief from the COO stating from May 2015 the 319s would only be found on Wimbledon/Sutton Loop and Sevenoaks services with 387s and 377s being found on the other services however one item of interest is the Bedford to Elephant and Castle Peaks. Would they stay as 319 operated or would they see 377s on these services?

 

[Class377/5]

The 387/1s cause some major changes to Thameslink diagrams from their introduction shortly. December is used as a trial period with internal cascade in January with Electrostars replacing 319s until the full introduction of the 387/1s scheduled for May.

To throw some more light on this, there was a internal brief from the COO stating from May 2015 the 319s would only be found on Wimbledon/Sutton Loop and Sevenoaks services with 387s and 377s being found on the other services however one item of interest is the Bedford to Elephant and Castle Peaks. Would they stay as 319 operated or would they see 377s on these services?

The Elephant & Castle peaks already see 377 and 319s.

AIUI, all Bedford - Brighton services* will be either 387s or 377s, mostly the former, by early next year.

* of course from early next year the number of Bedford - Brighton services is halved to 2 tph in the standard off peak hour. But 387s / 377s will also operate the Bedford - Three Bridges (2 tph) and London Bridge - Brighton (2tph).

Don't forget the 377/1 or /4 added into the mix off peak.

From 'December' timetable change (starting 5th Jan) removes all 319s from the route on Sundays and most of Saturday (just some early morning, late evening). And that's without the introduction of the 387/1s.

 

[Manchester77]

So post 387/1 introduction on Thameslink what will the remaining Thameslink 319s be doing? And will May be the first time in Thameslinks history when most services are operated by non-319 EMUs?

 

[Saint66]

Passed through Derby yesterday on a XC, and there was a 387 sat in some siding off to the side as we were departing. Unexpected first glance at these trains!

 

[Aictos]

The 387/1s cause some major changes to Thameslink diagrams from their introduction shortly. December is used as a trial period with internal cascade in January with Electrostars replacing 319s until the full introduction of the 387/1s scheduled for May.

The Elephant & Castle peaks already see 377 and 319s.

My learnth friend, you misunderstood me in my questioning I was trying to ask if in a nutshell if the 319s would still be used on the services I mentioned or would these services be transferred to 100% 377 operation.

That said are there many existing 4 car services on the Loop these days? Are the 319s freed up by the internal cascade of the Electrostar all spoken for or will they be used to lengthen Loop services to their maximum length/run more services via the Loop?

I do apologise for my lack of knowledge where the Thameslink is concerned, it's not as good as it ought to be.

 

[317 forever]

The article says most Bedford - Brighton trains will be Electrostars, that's not just 387/1s, but will include most of the 377/2 and 377/5 already on the route.

AIUI, all Bedford - Brighton services* will be either 387s or 377s, mostly the former, by early next year.

* of course from early next year the number of Bedford - Brighton services is halved to 2 tph in the standard off peak hour. But 387s / 377s will also operate the Bedford - Three Bridges (2 tph) and London Bridge - Brighton (2tph).

Ok yes, I do see the distinction between 377s and 387s, but this suggests it will be easy to locate a 387 fairly quickly anyway!

 

[387star]

Satisfaction levels on TL should soon reach an all time high

 

[Class377/5]

So post 387/1 introduction on Thameslink what will the remaining Thameslink 319s be doing? And will May be the first time in Thameslinks history when most services are operated by non-319 EMUs?

Not really. Don't forget that out of the off peak 12tph (Core gets 10tph) you get 6tph in the hands of 3x7. If your stood in the Core, only 40% of services will be an Electrostar, 2tph Bedford to Brighton & 2tph Bedford to Three Bridges. 4tph to Sutton and 2tph to Sevenoaks will 319s.

My learnth friend, you misunderstood me in my questioning I was trying to ask if in a nutshell if the 319s would still be used on the services I mentioned or would these services be transferred to 100% 377 operation.

That said are there many existing 4 car services on the Loop these days? Are the 319s freed up by the internal cascade of the Electrostar all spoken for or will they be used to lengthen Loop services to their maximum length/run more services via the Loop?

I do apologise for my lack of knowledge where the Thameslink is concerned, it's not as good as it ought to be.

Once the 387 introduction is complete you may still see 319s on the peak specials to Elephant & Castle. I haven't seen the May workings so can't say for sure. However there are a lot more 12 car services running around each day (a lot more and all day long) meaning current workings aren't so helpful in working out what's going over to where. The introduction of the first 387 working changes a lot of other services, far more than I had realised. Its a complex bit of work getting the units in and balancing it all.

The 387s won't be just restricted to Bedford/London Bridge to Brighton but don't have quite as much route clearance as the 377 fleet.

There is no additional capacity created by the arrival of the 387s, they simply replace units to go elsewhere. Don't forget out of the 14 announced 319 moves to Northern, only 3 units have become 'spare' to cascade from the arrival of the 377/2s (other 3 are freed up for maintenance in theory).

 

[physics34]

The 387/1s cause some major changes to Thameslink diagrams from their introduction shortly. December is used as a trial period with internal cascade in January with Electrostars replacing 319s until the full introduction of the 387/1s scheduled for May.



The Elephant & Castle peaks already see 377 and 319s.



Don't forget the 377/1 or /4 added into the mix off peak.

From 'December' timetable change (starting 5th Jan) removes all 319s from the route on Sundays and most of Saturday (just some early morning, late evening). And that's without the introduction of the 387/1s.

/1s and /4s on the off peak London bridge to Brighton's?! Hmmm, I wonder if we will see southern traincrew filling in on these aswell?!

 

[387star]

Interesting to note the 387s are carpeted throughout something Govia seem to be keen on hell they even carpeted the 313s! This is at odds with the ongoing 365 refurbishment which I'm guessing the Government specified and the 700s will presumably be mostly lino as well?

Will we see 387s stabled at Hove once the 442s are withdrawn? I heard somewhere some may be retained for the likes of the peak Eastbournes and London to Brighton?

Presumably with the 387 introduction Thameslink could release seven 319s to replace seven 321s which in turn could be sent to ScotRail?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
why are they being delivered to Bletchley isn't that a London Midland depot?

 

[swt_passenger]

Apart from the explicit question about stabling, I think everything else has already been discussed in this or other threads.

The 442s will not be retained for use on residual London to Brighton services. They might be retained for a relatively short period for Eastbourne peak extras, but only until other 377s become available following 700 introduction.

The suggestion of 7 x 319s replacing 7 x 321s has been all but denied in the '321 to Scotland' thread, the reasoning being that introducing a micro fleet of 319s onto the GN for a very short period would not be practical. I don't believe the LM 321s are in the picture for Scotrail, which was the other suggestion. LM wouldn't want a micro fleet of 319s either, IMHO.

The Bletchley depot building isn't used by LM any longer, which makes it a convenient location to temporarily base the new units for the few weeks needed while undertaking high speed AC testing on the WCML.

 

[physics34]

Interesting to note the 387s are carpeted throughout something Govia seem to be keen on hell they even carpeted the 313s! This is at odds with the ongoing 365 refurbishment which I'm guessing the Government specified and the 700s will presumably be mostly lino as well?

Will we see 387s stabled at Hove once the 442s are withdrawn? I heard somewhere some may be retained for the likes of the peak Eastbournes and London to Brighton?

Presumably with the 387 introduction Thameslink could release seven 319s to replace seven 321s which in turn could be sent to ScotRail?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
why are they being delivered to Bletchley isn't that a London Midland depot?

Don't get the carpet obsession either. The first 377s that got the refresh are already looking a state.

Didn't somebody say 6x442s will be retained for a while.?

 

[387star]

Don't get the carpet obsession either. The first 377s that got the refresh are already looking a state.

Didn't somebody say 6x442s will be retained for a while.?

Sad to hear they looked really smart when first done

However the refresh was a wasted opportunity which could have been used to standardize interiors especially the first class... indeed the side panels are quite different in the early refurbishments as apparently they specified the wrong colour?

I presume all 377/1, 377/2. 377/3 ans 377/4 units have been refreshed now (new carpets including vestibules, repainted hand grabs and rails etc and new side panels)

 

[theageofthetra]

Re the 365 refurbs-they have had DDA compliant toilets fitted, presumably one of a similar design will be used when the SE 465/466's are upgraded to DDA compliance?

 

[physics34]

Just a handful of /4s left to be done I think.

They all do a lot of metro work so I guess this doesn't help the state of the carpets.

The ex-connex interiored units were meant to get the light blue side panels to match the others but didn't. They got dark blue which was the previous colour the old ones were on these units.

Massive missed opportunity to sort out seating arrangements in the 377s. I hear there are plans to increase the seating density of the metro 377/3s though.

 

[387star]

Re the 365 refurbs-they have had DDA compliant toilets fitted, presumably one of a similar design will be used when the SE 465/466's are upgraded to DDA compliance?

Any pics? If so this is news as the first lot were refurbished with new toilets etc
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just a handful of /4s left to be done I think.

They all do a lot of metro work so I guess this doesn't help the state of the carpets.

The ex-connex interiored units were meant to get the light blue side panels to match the others but didn't. They got dark blue which was the previous colour the old ones were on these units.

Massive missed opportunity to sort out seating arrangements in the 377s. I hear there are plans to increase the seating density of the metro 377/3s though.

They have ripped out the old big tables on those units already replaced with small side tables

 

[physics34]

Any pics? If so this is news as the first lot were refurbished without new toilets etc
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


They have ripped out the old big tables on those units already replaced with small side tables

Those small tables seem to be second hand. Wonder where they came from?!

There was something in a recent Network Rail RUS that they are looking at the metro 377s getting a higher density.

 

[Fincra5]

Don't get the carpet obsession either. The first 377s that got the refresh are already looking a state.

Didn't somebody say 6x442s will be retained for a while.?

Yes 6. 2 spare, 4 in service fro London Bridge to Brighton/ Eastbourne and V/V. Only until there is enough 377s to replace them.

 

[Class377/5]

/1s and /4s on the off peak London bridge to Brighton's?! Hmmm, I wonder if we will see southern traincrew filling in on these aswell?!

Yes you will. No many of them mind.

Interesting to note the 387s are carpeted throughout something Govia seem to be keen on hell they even carpeted the 313s! This is at odds with the ongoing 365 refurbishment which I'm guessing the Government specified and the 700s will presumably be mostly lino as well?

Will we see 387s stabled at Hove once the 442s are withdrawn? I heard somewhere some may be retained for the likes of the peak Eastbournes and London to Brighton?

Presumably with the 387 introduction Thameslink could release seven 319s to replace seven 321s which in turn could be sent to ScotRail?

why are they being delivered to Bletchley isn't that a London Midland depot?

387s are cleared to Hove but the 387/1 shouldn't be seen there unless Southern berth them. The 387/2 are a difference matter.

Bletchley is not an LM depot. Its been disused for awhile, but its a prefect location for storing lots of units in an ideal location by testing area. All AC testing is being done on WCML at the moment and it's one of the few places that has direct access with compatible stock for trips onto the DC too.

319s are not off to LM. That I do know.

Apart from the explicit question about stabling, I think everything else has already been discussed in this or other threads.

The 442s will not be retained for use on residual London to Brighton services. They might be retained for a relatively short period for Eastbourne peak extras, but only until other 377s become available following 700 introduction.

The suggestion of 7 x 319s replacing 7 x 321s has been all but denied in the '321 to Scotland' thread, the reasoning being that introducing a micro fleet of 319s onto the GN for a very short period would not be practical. I don't believe the LM 321s are in the picture for Scotrail, which was the other suggestion. LM wouldn't want a micro fleet of 319s either, IMHO.

The Bletchley depot building isn't used by LM any longer, which makes it a convenient location to temporarily base the new units for the few weeks needed while undertaking high speed AC testing on the WCML.

Don't get the carpet obsession either. The first 377s that got the refresh are already looking a state.

Didn't somebody say 6x442s will be retained for a while.?

Yes 6. 2 spare, 4 in service fro London Bridge to Brighton/ Eastbourne and V/V. Only until there is enough 377s to replace them.

The final removal of the 442s from 'Southern' is supposed to be in 2017. Not heard numbers but Fincra5 seems to know more than me in this area.

 

[Fincra5]

I'm only going on what the Fleet Contracts Manager told me

 

[Class377/5]

I'm only going on what the Fleet Contracts Manager told me

To be fair I haven't really asked at all over the older classes. Enough on with the new fleets.

 

[gwr4090]

I presume that the recently announced order of 387/2 units for Gatwick Express services will be a permanent allocation - ie they will not be cascaded elsewhere unlike like the 387/1s. In which case are the 29 387/1 units sufficient to meet the GWML Thames Valley requirements for 110mph units, or is there any implication that the Thames Valley will now get new units of a different class. I gather that Bombardier will not be producing any more 387s after the 387/2s are delivered.

David

 

[Skimble19]

Re the 365 refurbs-they have had DDA compliant toilets fitted, presumably one of a similar design will be used when the SE 465/466's are upgraded to DDA compliance?

Actually, I'm 99.9% sure they haven't (unless one has slipped by and I've not noticed it!).. So far none have come back with the extra things that were supposed to be done, such as the new CIS system which was supposed to begin after the 4th(?) unit..

To be honest from a passenger perspective the refresh of the 365s isn't great and hasn't actually improved anything, bar the lighting. They now have extremely dirty Lino floors, far less tables, seats without seat back tables, less bins etc.

 

[jon0844]

The floor is especially nasty now given the salt put down on platforms. And the light blue interior now makes the train feel really cold now that it actually is cold. Far less 'cosy' than it was before and now feel more like a tube train interior.

But the trains are still comfortable and look great from the outside.

 

[4-COR 3142]

Are there 387 diagrams from Bletchley to Brighton and back still being used on Mondays and Tuesdays? Could well have some time off tomorrow.

 

[Class377/5]

Are there 387 diagrams from Bletchley to Brighton and back still being used on Mondays and Tuesdays? Could well have some time off tomorrow.

Generally the Brighton run have been Tuesday and Wednesday with Crewe runs on Monday, Thursday and Friday.

However there may be a one way visit to Brighton tomorrow. If you want to see a 387, I'd wait a few days as the first one in service is planned for very soon.

 

[4-COR 3142]

Generally the Brighton run have been Tuesday and Wednesday with Crewe runs on Monday, Thursday and Friday.

However there may be a one way visit to Brighton tomorrow. If you want to see a 387, I'd wait a few days as the first one in service is planned for very soon.

thanks for the info may well take a chance tomorrow - always like to have photos of test runs prior to revenue earning service if I can.