Pre BR diesel & electric locos

[Bright Boy]

I am interested in any information about pre-BR (1948) diesel & electric locos.

I have a copy of 'The Complete BR Diesel & Electric Locomotive Dictionary' (Colin Marsden OPC 1991), which has some pre BR Locos, of which most were transferred into BR stock in 1948 (some were withdrawn before nationalisation).

But I can't help thinking that there were more, for instance the electric loco's used by the NER/LNER in the Newcastle area.

Does anyone have any information about these, or at least point me in the right direction?

 

[kermit]

Have you seen this?

http://www.lner.info/locos/Electric/ef1eb1.shtml

 

[CatfordCat]

The Southern Railway had (a small number of) diesel shunters, electric locomotives and designed a prototype main line diesel loco, although the latter did not surface until after nationalisation

http://www.semgonline.com/photoind.html#dsl has more (look for the words Maunsell / Bulleid in the class descriptions - Richard Maunsell and Oliver Bulleid were the SR's two chief mechanical engineers)

There were also two 'departmental' electric locos dating from LSWR days - one for shunting on the waterloo and city line (preserved in the NRM collection), and one for shunting coal wagons at Durnsford Road power station.

 

[gg1]

One (very short) book I highly recommend is 'Early Electric Trains' by R.L. Vickers, it's long out of print but is easy enough to find on ebay.

The book covers British pre WW2 electrics including a section on the NER Newcastle docks and Shildon-Newport schemes you're interested in. Also mentioned is one of the least known electric locos to operate on the national network, a one-off electric shunter build by the L&YR for operation on the Liverpool area 750v DC lines.

 

[Murph]

LNER had a handful of internal combustion locos. http://www.lner.info/locos/IC/ic.shtml

LMS also had quite a few diesel shunters, and the pioneering 10000 & 10001 mainline diesels built by EE.

Both LNER & LMS effectively had 08s quite a few years before the first real 08s were built. They both had EE-built 0-6-0 diesel-electric shunters which were visually very close to 08s, and also very close in spec, right down to using the same prime mover as the 08 (and same traction motors too, possibly?).

 

[HSTEd]

SR had the locomotives that became the Class 70s - which are typical examples of Southern Frugality in that they just used the jigs from a Multiple Unit for the cab ends.

 

[CarltonA]

The route from Shildon to Newport via Simpasture and Redmarshall was electrified in about 1913 at 1,500V DC. The locos were put into store in Darlington when the line reverted to steam in the mid thirties.
From Wikipedia: The Class EB1[edit]Electric traction on the Shildon line was discontinued in 1935 but the locomotives were retained for possible future use. Number 11 (later BR 26510) was rebuilt in 1941 for use as a banker on the Manchester-Sheffield line, and given the classification EB1 (Electric Banking 1). Horsepower was increased from 1,100 to 1,256 and the twin pantographs were replaced by a single central one. In October 1945, all ten locomotives were classified as Class EB1. Although only one had been rebuilt, it was expected that rebuilding of the others would follow. Nos. 3-12 were renumbered as Nos. 6490-9 in the LNER's 1946 renumbering scheme. After nationalisation in 1948 they were renumbered again as 26502-11. In 1949, the plan to convert the remaining nine locomotives as banking engines was dropped and they were reclassified as Class EF1 (Electric Freight 1).[2]

Final years[edit]The EF1s were withdrawn in 1950-51. In 1949 the EB1, number 26510, was moved to Ilford Depot (Eastern Region) for use as a shunter.[1] Number 26510 was transferred to departmental stock (as no. 100) in 1959 and withdrawn in 1964.[3] None of the locomotives are preserved.

 

[Bright Boy]

Have you seen this?

http://www.lner.info/locos/Electric/ef1eb1.shtml

Thanks, I will look into this

And thanks very much everyone who responded, Kermit, Catford Cat, gg1, Murph, HSTEd, CarltonA, you have all been very helpful, I now have a bit of studying to do!

 

[kermit]

Thanks, I will look into this

And thanks very much everyone who responded, Kermit, Catford Cat, gg1, Murph, HSTEd, CarltonA, you have all been very helpful, I now have a bit of studying to do!

I notice you put your location as Sale. If I remember correctly, when the Manchester - Sheffield - Wath electrification project was delayed by the war, the original prototype 1500v DC Bo-Bo locomotive (yet to be named "Tommy") was tested trundling up and down the only locally available track, the MSJ&A through Sale. But I believe it was all top secret because the war was on, and photos are as rare as hens' teeth!

 

[Bright Boy]

I notice you put your location as Sale. If I remember correctly, when the Manchester - Sheffield - Wath electrification project was delayed by the war, the original prototype 1500v DC Bo-Bo locomotive (yet to be named "Tommy") was tested trundling up and down the only locally available track, the MSJ&A through Sale. But I believe it was all top secret because the war was on, and photos are as rare as hens' teeth!

Yeah, I have read the website you gave me the address for, but unfortunately I was not around in the war, my father was only 6 years old when they were testing !

The website also stated that class EM1 (76's) ran merry-go-round coal to Fiddlers Ferry, which I assume would have gone through Skelton Jct at Timperley and along the Altrincham-Warrington line (now closed), I live very close to this, I sometimes walk or bike ride along its path. But I have never heard that this stretch of line was electrified ( I was not living here in the 70's), do you know anything about that ?

 

[L+Y]

The website also stated that class EM1 (76's) ran merry-go-round coal to Fiddlers Ferry, which I assume would have gone through Skelton Jct at Timperley and along the Altrincham-Warrington line (now closed), I live very close to this, I sometimes walk or bike ride along its path. But I have never heard that this stretch of line was electrified ( I was not living here in the 70's), do you know anything about that ?

The line wasn't electrified. There were locomotive transfer sidings at the western end of the Woodhead route where the EM1s would come off and a diesel would go on.

 

[RichmondCommu]

The line wasn't electrified. There were locomotive transfer sidings at the western end of the Woodhead route where the EM1s would come off and a diesel would go on.

If I recall correctly they were located at Mottram. I also seem to remember that the sidings had their own staff halt.

 

[Bright Boy]

If I recall correctly they were located at Mottram. I also seem to remember that the sidings had their own staff halt.

Do you know what the route was from there to Fiddlers Ferry ?

 

[RichmondCommu]

Do you know what the route was from there to Fiddlers Ferry ?

No sorry I don't

 

[Taunton]

The website also stated that class EM1 (76's) ran merry-go-round coal to Fiddlers Ferry

Yes, the MGR coal trains were from Wath Yard near Barnsley, and were quite intense, several per day. Until 1981 the electric locos ran as far as Mottram, where they came off and Class 47 (later Class 56) came on to go via Guide Bridge, along the main line through Stockport (they were a common sight on Stockport viaduct from the town centre), round to Cheadle, Timperley, and the now-closed line through Broadheath and Warrington Bank Quay Low Level to the power station. After Woodhead closed they came through Standedge and Stalybridge, thence Guide Bridge etc, diesel all the way of course.

They had previously, back in the 1970s, gone from Mottram via the link round to Woodley, thence the low level old CLC line through Stockport Tiviot Dale, picking up the above route at Cheadle, but this route was lost to the building of the M60 motorway through Stockport

 

[matchmaker]

Do a Google on "Fell locomotive". Something different...

Designed in LMS days, but didn't come out until nationalisation.

6 engines in it hock:

 

[theageofthetra]

Have a look at the locomotive section of http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/museum.htm all sorts of oddities including The Fell.

 

[Bright Boy]

Yes, the MGR coal trains were from Wath Yard near Barnsley, and were quite intense, several per day. Until 1981 the electric locos ran as far as Mottram, where they came off and Class 47 (later Class 56) came on to go via Guide Bridge, along the main line through Stockport (they were a common sight on Stockport viaduct from the town centre), round to Cheadle, Timperley, and the now-closed line through Broadheath and Warrington Bank Quay Low Level to the power station. After Woodhead closed they came through Standedge and Stalybridge, thence Guide Bridge etc, diesel all the way of course.

They had previously, back in the 1970s, gone from Mottram via the link round to Woodley, thence the low level old CLC line through Stockport Tiviot Dale, picking up the above route at Cheadle, but this route was lost to the building of the M60 motorway through Stockport

Thanks taunton, that is very interesting and informative. Unfortunately part of the Skelton Jct - Warrington line has also now been lost, it has been covered by a road going through a retail park and industrial estate for about 2 miles at Broadheath, although most of the rest of the way the trackbed is still undisturbed and used as a footpath/cycleway to Lymm at least, and part of the line is still in use from Latchford - Arpley Jct as a runaround for Fiddlers Ferry trains.

Since almost all of that earlier route has now "gone" it is extremely unlikely if trains (of any kind) will ever pass that way again!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Thanks matchmaker and theageofthetrain, I will look at those in a bit Very helpful

 

[Bevan Price]

RCTS published a book on the LMSR diesels. It is now out of print, but you may find 2nd hand copies somewhere.

 

[Taunton]

I am interested in any information about pre-BR (1948) diesel & electric locos.

I have a copy of 'The Complete BR Diesel & Electric Locomotive Dictionary' (Colin Marsden OPC 1991), which has some pre BR Locos, of which most were transferred into BR stock in 1948 (some were withdrawn before nationalisation).

But I can't help thinking that there were more, for instance the electric loco's used by the NER/LNER in the Newcastle area.

Back to the original question, what you really want is a softcover book published by the "Diesel + Electric Group" in the 1980s titled "Every Single One There Ever Was", which really did, I believe, get every diesel/electric loco ever used in the UK. It's in semi-tabular form and has lots of detail, works numbers, which plant built them, etc. I lost mine long ago and there's no trace of it in a quick Google search, but I bet some people here have one.

 

[Bright Boy]

RCTS published a book on the LMSR diesels. It is now out of print, but you may find 2nd hand copies somewhere.

Cheers for that, I'll have a look on Abebooks.