Bombardier electrostars for Gatwick Express

[corfield]

apologies if it has been picked up but in case I'm ahead of the curve

Not a surprise perhaps that its Electrostars though...

More than 100 vehicles, so circa 25+ 4cars?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-30102406

A Derby trainmaker has won a £145m contract to build more than 100 rail cars for the Gatwick Express line.

The contract with Govia Thameslink Railway would safeguard jobs at the Bombardier plant in Derby, a Bombardier spokesman said.
The new trains will replace 1980s-built rolling stock that has been operating on the line since 2008.

Rail Minister Claire Perry said the trains would be a boost for both passengers and the economy.

"They will transform journeys on the Gatwick Express and Thameslink routes and safeguard jobs at Bombardier's Derby factory," Mrs Perry said.
The Electrostar trains will have "easier access for passengers with luggage, improved storage space, two by two seating and WiFi," a Govia Thameslink Railway (GTR) spokesman said.

A Bombardier spokesman said the order would "safeguard" jobs at the plant but no additional posts would be created as a result of the contract.
Bombardier won a £1bn contract in February to provide 65 trains for the London Crossrail project, which is set to open in 2018.

The Canadian firm Bombardier lost out to German firm Siemens to build new train carriages for the London-based Thameslink route in 2011.

 

[swt_passenger]

apologies if it has been picked up but in case I'm ahead of the curve

Not a surprise perhaps that its Electrostars though...

More than 100 vehicles, so circa 25+ 4cars?

It's 108 vehicles, 27 units, and all the details were already posted on the previous page of the main 387 thread...

 

[cjmillsnun]

It's 108 vehicles, 27 units, and all the details were already posted on the previous page of the main 387 thread...

But this is a separate order. It does kind of make sense that it has its own thread.

 

[aylesbury]

Good news they are a great unit with a reliable provenance and very comfortable to ride in.

 

[swt_passenger]

But this is a separate order. It does kind of make sense that it has its own thread.

Why though? Much previous discussion on the GatEx order (which has been an open secret for weeks, if not months), is already in the existing thread?

 

[Class377/5]

But this is a separate order. It does kind of make sense that it has its own thread.

No its not. Its an part of the same deal as the 387/1 for Thameslink.

 

[NSEFAN]

A Derby trainmaker has won a £145m contract to build more than 100 rail cars for the Gatwick Express line.

The contract with Govia Thameslink Railway would safeguard jobs at the Bombardier plant in Derby, a Bombardier spokesman said.
The new trains will replace 1980s-built rolling stock that has been operating on the line since 2008.

Rail Minister Claire Perry said the trains would be a boost for both passengers and the economy.

"They will transform journeys on the Gatwick Express and Thameslink routes and safeguard jobs at Bombardier's Derby factory," Mrs Perry said.
The Electrostar trains will have "easier access for passengers with luggage, improved storage space, two by two seating and WiFi," a Govia Thameslink Railway (GTR) spokesman said.

A Bombardier spokesman said the order would "safeguard" jobs at the plant but no additional posts would be created as a result of the contract.
Bombardier won a £1bn contract in February to provide 65 trains for the London Crossrail project, which is set to open in 2018.

The Canadian firm Bombardier lost out to German firm Siemens to build new train carriages for the London-based Thameslink route in 2011.

I love how the first point in that extract is to do with safeguarding jobs at Derby.

 

[Keith Jarrett]

apologies if it has been picked up but in case I'm ahead of the curve

Not a surprise perhaps that its Electrostars though...

More than 100 vehicles, so circa 25+ 4cars?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-30102406
7

Great up to date photo in the article. A green Class 375 - they only lasted a short while before being reclassified as 377s. Surely Bombardier or the BBC have more up to date photos available?

 

[gordonthemoron]

hopefully the seats will be better than the latest southern 5 car electrostars

 

[Bletchleyite]

hopefully the seats will be better than the latest southern 5 car electrostars

Indeed. If they wish to keep GatEx as a premium service, it should have a premium look about the rolling stock, even if purely cosmetic. HEx has this one dead right.

Neil

 

[hwl]

Yes new stock but AFAIK the 313's are staying for a while longer down on the coast, yes the inside is refrubed well but they'll still knackered old trains. 6x 442s are remaining for the London Bridge to Brighton/ Eastbourne (and V/V) services.

AS for the 25 units to SE, thats leaves us 25 units short still. Given the /5s are bound for Kings Lynn services at some point. I wouldn't rule out more refurbed 313s (as they are cheap as chips to run).

But with some current southern services taken over by Thameslink with 700s that should more than compensate for 25 going to SE? (Also note the semi-retirement of some 455s due to being surplus to requirements).

Re the 6x 442s is that just till 2019 when full Thameslink with the higher core frequency occurs and they are replaced with 700s?

 

[swt_passenger]

Re the 6x 442s is that just till 2019 when full Thameslink with the higher core frequency occurs and they are replaced with 700s?

Thameslink doesn't include Eastbourne, so 700s won't directly replace 442s or run there, but an internal cascade following full 700 deklivery should provide enough 377s off other routes to replace the 442s to Eastbourne?

 

[talldave]

Indeed. If they wish to keep GatEx as a premium service, it should have a premium look about the rolling stock, even if purely cosmetic. HEx has this one dead right.

Neil

Totally agree. Although at the present time, the GatEx is easily differentiated from other services by use of the most clapped out rolling stock! It's an embarrassment, as well as delaying every other service on the line due to excessive dwell times caused by the stupid door configuration.

 

[Class377/5]

Thameslink doesn't include Eastbourne, so 700s won't directly replace 442s or run there, but an internal cascade following full 700 deklivery should provide enough 377s off other routes to replace the 442s to Eastbourne?

Yes it will.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes it will.

I wonder will they consider repainting in proper Southern colours rather than a livery that looks like it escaped from 1975?

Neil

 

[Class377/5]

I wonder will they consider repainting in proper Southern colours rather than a livery that looks like it escaped from 1975?

Neil

You mean the current Southern livery? Its staying.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You mean the current Southern livery? Its staying.

No, the horrible Gatwick Express livery which looks absolutely awful. It makes knackered old units look even more knackered and even older.

(I did wonder if GTR would consider changing the Southern logo to one in line with Thameslink and Great Northern, but I do hope not).

Neil

 

[Class377/5]

No, the horrible Gatwick Express livery which looks absolutely awful. It makes knackered old units look even more knackered and even older.

(I did wonder if GTR would consider changing the Southern logo to one in line with Thameslink and Great Northern, but I do hope not).

Neil

That's not currently widely know how much they change the livery.

Southern livery is staying as has been repeated stated.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Yes it will.

Will it also provide enough 377s to allow the 313s on Coastway to retire?

 

[Bald Rick]

Will it also provide enough 377s to allow the 313s on Coastway to retire?

No...

 

[Rhydgaled]

No...

Will it also provide enough 377s to allow the 313s on Coastway to retire?

Which is one reason I think it wouldn't be a bad idea if Southern took the 442s cascaded from GatEx, to release other units with toilets for use on the Coastway services.

 

[physics34]

No, the horrible Gatwick Express livery which looks absolutely awful. It makes knackered old units look even more knackered and even older.

(I did wonder if GTR would consider changing the Southern logo to one in line with Thameslink and Great Northern, but I do hope not).

Neil

The current 442 livery is basic but looks okay in my opinion.

The 387/2's will be in a red livery with grey doors (as seen elsewhere in this forum), unless GTR change their mind.

The Southern logo is remaining as class 377/5 says but i do sort of agree that it might aswell be altered to be an variant of the other GTR logos.....but Go-ahead like having loads of different brands, just look at their bus operations.

Also im so bored of Southern livery now (10 years old) that id rather see the grey and blue (as seen on some 319s) on the 377s and 455s.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Will it also provide enough 377s to allow the 313s on Coastway to retire?

There are no plans to replace the (Southern) 313s for the length of the franchise.

The introduction of the 700s will make enough 377s surplus, for 25 to go to Southeastern and for some 455s to be retired....

 

[SpacePhoenix]

and for some 455s to be retired....

Depending on what state they're in, could SWTs take some of them on to strengthen services (or are all SWT services that use 455s already as long as they can physically be)?

 

[59CosG95]

Depending on what state they're in, could SWTs take some of them on to strengthen services (or are all SWT services that use 455s already as long as they can physically be)?

Not unless they're willing to rework ALL the software like they've had to do in the 456 farce...

 

[swt_passenger]

Depending on what state they're in, could SWTs take some of them on to strengthen services (or are all SWT services that use 455s already as long as they can physically be)?

I think SWT's need is for 10 car trains - so unless it's thought cost effective to reform some 455s into 3 car, so as to run 3+3+4, I expect 455s and 456 will still be the main way to do 10 car.

Another possible view is that with SWT ordering the 5 car Desiro City for delivery around the same time some SN 455s become available, a decision not to use the SN 455s is already implied?

 

[hwl]

Another possible view is that with SWT ordering the 5 car Desiro City for delivery around the same time some SN 455s become available, a decision not to use the SN 455s is already implied?

Agreed

More 455s for SWT only really makes sense if 12car with no SDO is achievable in the medium term.

 

[Clip]

Not bad only 7 posts in before the inevitable.

They say larger luggage areas which is good but will it reduce seating which if they get swapped out for another service will greatly annoy the good old people of Surrey/sussex

 

[physics34]

Depending on what state they're in, could SWTs take some of them on to strengthen services (or are all SWT services that use 455s already as long as they can physically be)?

yeh i would guess SWT would be interested in them, seeing as their 455s look likely to be around for a while.

 

[Class377/5]

455s are not being retired but mileage is being reduced as its expected the units will require higher levels of maintenance. Also running more 10 cars requires 377s not 455s.

 

[Wolfie]

455s are not being retired but mileage is being reduced as its expected the units will require higher levels of maintenance. Also running more 10 cars requires 377s not 455s.

I suspect that Southern, given half a chance, would far prefer to operate fewer 455s more intensively and let someone else pay the leasing fees for the rest... The only obvious candidate for the someone else is SWT (unless of course someone decided that 455s might be a short-term solution to Southeastern's rolling stock woes - could they be used on SE Metro services?). Will it happen? Depends on how successful the upgrade of the extant 455s, which is intended to reduce maintenance requirements, is for a start....

Indeed if Southern are to continue to operate 455s, even in smaller numbers, for some time and the traction upgrade for SWT 455s is a success it seems probable that something similar could happen to their fleet also....