Class 387

[PhilipW]

More new trains for the South of England.

Some people still wonder why people in the north get p****d off when told that there are no plans to get rid the Pacers.

 

[Saint66]

More new trains for the South of England.

Some people still wonder why people in the north get p****d off when told that there are no plans to get rid the Pacers.

Oh please, let's not turn this into another North vs South Train thread.:roll:

 

[jon0844]

More new trains for the South of England.

Some people still wonder why people in the north get p****d off when told that there are no plans to get rid the Pacers.

They're not just for the south. They're also being built for the north, but used for a bit down here to properly bed them in...

 

[Mikey C]

They're not just for the south. They're also being built for the north, but used for a bit down here to properly bed them in...

Yeah, after 35 years of bedding them in, they'll be safe to release oop north

 

[jon0844]

Yeah, after 35 years of bedding them in, they'll be safe to release oop north

For anything made by Bombardier that might not even be enough!

 

[phil beard]

They are off to Crewe today and Brighton tomorrow. Usual timings in place.

This must have been this working

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R00889/2014/11/18/advanced

that I noticed just south of Streatham Common shortly after eleven this morning as I travelled towards Clapham Junction. I was dozing a bit, I must admit, but they were certainly VERY white and were of either eight or twelve car consist.

 

[corfield]

Wrong topoc

 

[jonboy]

This must have been this working

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R00889/2014/11/18/advanced

that I noticed just south of Streatham Common shortly after eleven this morning as I travelled towards Clapham Junction. I was dozing a bit, I must admit, but they were certainly VERY white and were of either eight or twelve car consist.

yes it was a 12 car 387107/108/109

 

[Kite159]

Not the biggest surprise with regards to the add-on order for 387s for Gatwick.

 

[jon0844]

What needs to come next is details of what stock will be replacing the 313s into Moorgate. Surely these need to be ordered fairly soon?

 

[Saint66]

What needs to come next is details of what stock will be replacing the 313s into Moorgate. Surely these need to be ordered fairly soon?

Pacers, obviously....

 

[JaJaWa]

Railway Gazette

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...dier-sign-gatwick-express-train-contract.html

Nice photo of the interior here which I hadn't seen before, it's very turquoise!

 

[jopsuk]

What needs to come next is details of what stock will be replacing the 313s into Moorgate. Surely these need to be ordered fairly soon?

Not even been an ITT yet has there? Just a franchise commitment to carry out replacement

 

[Minstral25]

Nice photo of the interior here which I hadn't seen before, it's very turquoise!

Very 377/6 or/7. No surprise really.

27 387/2 units for Gatwick trains, does that mean 9 x 12 car formations or will it be a mix of 12 car and 8 car trains. Presumably all the Brighton Extensions will be 12 car.

Is 8 sets of 12 car enough for the planned Gatwick Express services (allowing for one spare set in maintenance)?

 

[47802]

Very 377/6 or/7. No surprise really.

27 387/2 units for Gatwick trains, does that mean 9 x 12 car formations or will it be a mix of 12 car and 8 car trains. Presumably all the Brighton Extensions will be 12 car.

Is 8 sets of 12 car enough for the planned Gatwick Express services (allowing for one spare set in maintenance)?

The interior shot is of a Thameslink 387/1, I would expect the interior to be a different colour on the Gatwick units, and you would hope the 1st class doesn't have seating which is exactly the same as standard class.

 

[Minstral25]

The interior shot is of a Thameslink 387/1, I would expect the interior to be a different colour on the Gatwick units, and you would hope the 1st class doesn't have seating which is exactly the same as standard class.

Of Course - the 387/2's will have a Gatwick specific interior I would hope. Lot's of luggage racks etc. - probably bright Red as well

 

[Fincra5]

The interior shot is of a Thameslink 387/1, I would expect the interior to be a different colour on the Gatwick units, and you would hope the 1st class doesn't have seating which is exactly the same as standard class.

Gatex stock shouldn't as the division want it to be a "Premium" service. So i'd imagine proper 1st Class Seats. But then this is the railway, so who knows!

 

[Wolfie]

For anything made by Bombardier that might not even be enough!

Yes, Bombardier have such problems.... their 350/4s have been massively unreliable, and that after their 380 teething problems... oh, wait... they are Siemens products...

 

[47802]

Gatex stock shouldn't as the division want it to be a "Premium" service. So i'd imagine proper 1st Class Seats. But then this is the railway, so who knows!

Well you would like to think so but this southern we are talking about.

Will these be built as DC only?

Seating capacity on a 387/1 is 226 but that includes so called first class which are the same as standard.

If we assume proper 1st class seats and more luggage racks probably more like a 379 which is I think 189 standard and 20 1st

Asuming wiki is correct then a 442 has 322 standard and 24 1st in Gatex layout, so 12 car 387 will have less seats than a 10 car 442 but a least they will be able to get out of the door without a struggle, and I don't think 442 is compliant re the 2020 reg's.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes, Bombardier have such problems.... their 350/4s have been massively unreliable, and that after their 380 teething problems... oh, wait... they are Siemens products...

It does seem that Bombardier are improving their ability to deliver reasonably on time without too many problems while Siemens haven't been quite as good as people like to make out of late. The key test will be 700 verses 345 as these are both new designs from the respective companies.

 

[swt_passenger]

.
Will these be built as DC only?

They will almost certainly be built as dual voltage capable units with only the DC power supply pick up gear present, with provision for AC power collection components to be retrofitted if/when needed.

Same as all modern EMUs basically.

 

[hwl]

They will almost certainly be built as dual voltage capable units with only the DC power supply pick up gear present, with provision for AC power collection components to be retrofitted if/when needed.

Same as all modern EMUs basically.

The cost per unit for the /2s is quite a bit lower than the /1s so that suggests pantograph and transformer not fitted? (as an immediate follow on order you would expect it to be cheaper but 600k a unit???)

 

[47802]

They will almost certainly be built as dual voltage capable units with only the DC power supply pick up gear present, with provision for AC power collection components to be retrofitted if/when needed.

Same as all modern EMUs basically.

Yes thanks for stating the obvious, by DC I meant supplied without the AC power collection components. You would expect them to be DC only but you never know these days.

 

[fgwrich]

It does seem that Bombardier are improving their ability to deliver reasonably on time without too many problems while Siemens haven't been quite as good as people like to make out of late. The key test will be 700 verses 345 as these are both new designs from the respective companies.

That said Siemens already has the head start in the 380 and the £70M investment in Desiro City, before the Thameslink 700s had been ordered. Bombardier on the other hand has revised the Desiro City rivalling Aventra twice and has only just got off the revised drawing board. So Siemens should have the upper hand with this one given how far ahead they should be by now.

As for these, I think it'll turn out something more akin to the 379 as suggested above - Something to work both commuter services and Airport. So a feeling of Govia/NX go between, than the premium quality of the HEX or previous incarnation of the Gat Ex JOPs.

 

[Class377/5]

Not even been an ITT yet has there? Just a franchise commitment to carry out replacement

Procurement is to start next year, behind the scenes its already started.

Yes, Bombardier have such problems.... their 350/4s have been massively unreliable, and that after their 380 teething problems... oh, wait... they are Siemens products...

Well every Electrostar fleet has had issues, even the follow on's. Remember the year late 377/5 deliveries? Bombardier has a far worse history.

Will these be built as DC only?

Maybe

Seating capacity on a 387/1 is 226 but that includes so called first class which are the same as standard.

If we assume proper 1st class seats and more luggage racks probably more like a 379 which is I think 189 standard and 20 1st

Asuming wiki is correct then a 442 has 322 standard and 24 1st in Gatex layout, so 12 car 387 will have less seats than a 10 car 442 but a least they will be able to get out of the door without a struggle, and I don't think 442 is compliant re the 2020 reg's.

Figures are

10 car 442 has 644 standard seats
12 car 387 has 639 standard seats

A 387/1 has 213 standard seats and 10 first class seats.

It does seem that Bombardier are improving their ability to deliver reasonably on time without too many problems while Siemens haven't been quite as good as people like to make out of late. The key test will be 700 verses 345 as these are both new designs from the respective companies.

Indeed the 700 vs 345 will be a good test with 24tph requirement.

 

[47802]

Well every Electrostar fleet has had issues, even the follow on's. Remember the year late 377/5 deliveries? Bombardier has a far worse history.

.

Recent deliveries have only been slightly late and after a late start looks as though the 387's are going to be pretty much on time.

Figures are

10 car 442 has 644 standard seats
12 car 387 has 639 standard seats

A 387/1 has 213 standard seats and 10 first class seats.

.

Well the seating plans that are floating about appear to show 226 but anyway wont be that if they put proper 1st class 2 + 1 seats in the Gatex unit although given Southerns attitude towards 1st class I wouldn't put money on that

 

[Hophead]

The 442s offer a pretty luxurious 1st-class specification (well, it looks like that to me) and I seem to remember Southern making a bit of a song and dance about it when introduced. They'd be pretty foolish to downgrade that to 377/6 standard. Well, unless the management have seen the grief that SWT get from the Haslemere brigade about 450s and fancy some of that action themselves.

I'll be interested to see if they can spec the luggage carrying properly, though. Currently, on a 442, specifically refurbished for airport work, no-one can see their own suitcase. Furthermore, a 442 will take a reasonably-sized bag overhead, which is something the roof-line on an Electrostar prevents.

 

[user15681]

387101 delivered to Bletchley tonight.

 

[Class377/5]

And 387111 tonight.

 

[Bald Rick]

And 3871111 tonight.

Didn't think there were that many!

 

[Class377/5]

Didn't think there were that many!

Oops. Yes we don't need that many units!