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Global warming or just nature?

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Masbroughlad

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I planted some lotus flowers this year. The label said it would flower late Spring/early Summer. It is just flowering! Late for 2014 or early for 2015?

Snowdrops are coming up 3 months early too.

Global warming or just natural?
 
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Greenback

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No one can possibly know for sure. All we have is opinions, and I've spoken to specialists on both sides of the debate. That is the only thing they agree on!

My view has always been that even if the changes we have seen are natural and part of the weather cycle of the planet, then it won't do any harm to minimise the impact of humans. On the other hand, if we have contributed to climate change, even in a small way, it would be harmful not to try and do something about it.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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The planet Earth has been subject to widely different climatic changes in its lifetime. The currently held view that human intervention as a causation of global warming leading to Agamemnon needs to be balanced against some of the widespread volcanic activity in past aeons and changes in climatic currents that saw previously warm areas became frozen wastes.

Human habitation of any great amount in Britain was not possible in the last Ice Age up to 10,000 BC when the ice sheet covered most of Britain and Manchester was under two miles of ice. A permanent change of flow of the Gulf Stream will cause far more problems and will come as a reminder that humanity needs to understand that it is not as all powerful as it seems to think it is.

In this decade alone, we have seen the effects of a mega-tsunami that wreaked devastation up to the rim areas of the Indian Ocean to remind us of how powerless the human race is against combating the effects of nature.
 

21C101

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Same here. The idea that us human beings are powerful enough to change nature is basically arrogance.

If the warmists were not so apocalyptic, dogmatic and arrogant, I might be inclined to take more notice of them.

Then there is also the slight problem that global warming ceased 18 years ago which none of their models forecast.

Even if they are right, Russia, India and China have no intention of stopping their industrialisation so all we are doing in the UK is beating ourselves up and making ourselves uncompetitive.
 

AM9

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Then there is also the slight problem that global warming ceased 18 years ago which none of their models forecast.

Where did you get that idea from? Just try a Google search such as 'has global warming stopped?' and read the first 10 articles linked to. The problem is just like an alcoholic swooping on the latest repost that claims alcohol reduces the chance of heart attack/stress/stroke/you name it They can then stich their fingers in their ears and keep drinking.
The scientific evidence is that there has been no change in the trend, unless you just monitor the surface air temperature averages and ignore the sea temperature which accounts for over 90% of the long term rise.
All the usual suspects, (The Telegraph, The Daily Mail, Wall Street Journal etc) just can't wait to get the (half-truth) headline out then get back to the 'consumption of hydrocarbons business as usual', message, knowing that the public just want to hear that they can continue to drive their cars, keep flying everywhere and secure jobs in the petrochemical industries of the world.
 

DynamicSpirit

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The planet Earth has been subject to widely different climatic changes in its lifetime.

That's not really relevant. The various climatic changes that have naturally occurred in the past have usually taken place slowly - over timescales of thousands or tens of thousands of years. By contrast, the climate change that is occurring because of humans burning fossil fuels is happening over a period of decades - which obviously gives much less time for different species of life to adapt.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I planted some lotus flowers this year. The label said it would flower late Spring/early Summer. It is just flowering! Late for 2014 or early for 2015?

Snowdrops are coming up 3 months early too.

Global warming or just natural?

There's no doubt that, in the long run, climate change caused by burning fossil fuels is causing longer summers as far as much wildlife is concerned. This link from the Natural History Museum gives a couple of other examples similar to your observation of lotus flowers flowering later.

However, superimposed on that long term trend are the usual random-ish fluctuations in the weather from year to year, and it's very hard to separate out those impacts in any given year. So if you're asking specifically about this year, the answer has to be 'impossible to say for certain', but if you're asking more generally, then yes, man-made global warming is going to be a big causal factor.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Then there is also the slight problem that global warming ceased 18 years ago which none of their models forecast.

As AM9 has pointed out, this is simply not true.
 

21C101

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Where did you get that idea from? Just try a Google search such as 'has global warming stopped?' and read the first 10 articles linked to. The problem is just like an alcoholic swooping on the latest repost that claims alcohol reduces the chance of heart attack/stress/stroke/you name it They can then stich their fingers in their ears and keep drinking.
The scientific evidence is that there has been no change in the trend, unless you just monitor the surface air temperature averages and ignore the sea temperature which accounts for over 90% of the long term rise.
All the usual suspects, (The Telegraph, The Daily Mail, Wall Street Journal etc) just can't wait to get the (half-truth) headline out then get back to the 'consumption of hydrocarbons business as usual', message, knowing that the public just want to hear that they can continue to drive their cars, keep flying everywhere and secure jobs in the petrochemical industries of the world.

Ah yes, the idea that the air has stopped warming and the heat is mystically going into the deep sea. Nothing but speculation and since debunked.

Will NASA do as to where I got that idea from?

"The cold waters of Earth’s deep ocean have not warmed measurably since 2005, according to a new NASA study, leaving unsolved the mystery of why global warming appears to have slowed in recent years...."

"In the 21st century, greenhouse gases have continued to accumulate in the atmosphere, just as they did in the 20th century, but global average surface air temperatures have stopped rising in tandem with the gases. The temperature of the top half of the world's oceans -- above the 1.24-mile mark -- is still climbing, but not fast enough to account for the stalled air temperatures.

Many processes on land, air and sea have been invoked to explain what is happening to the "missing" heat. One of the most prominent ideas is that the bottom half of the ocean is taking up the slack, but supporting evidence is slim. "


http://www.nasa.gov/press/2014/octo...th-s-ocean-abyss-has-not-warmed/#.VF_EWPmsVik
 
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Xenophon PCDGS

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That's not really relevant. The various climatic changes that have naturally occurred in the past have usually taken place slowly - over timescales of thousands or tens of thousands of years. By contrast, the climate change that is occurring because of humans burning fossil fuels is happening over a period of decades - which obviously gives much less time for different species of life to adapt.

If a series of volcanic activity of great power were to take place in currently active volcanic chain areas or a similar catastrophic occurrences of the events that occurred in the Middle Ages where temperatures plummeted, these events did not occur over a period of thousands or tens of thousands of years. A reading of how certain matters affected European countries for long periods of time in the last two millennia is quite enlightening.

I will give you the Thames Frost Fairs as a British example of how climatic events can change over a much shorter period of time.
 

DynamicSpirit

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If a series of volcanic activity of great power were to take place in currently active volcanic chain areas or a similar catastrophic occurrences of the events that occurred in the Middle Ages where temperatures plummeted, these events did not occur over a period of thousands or tens of thousands of years. A reading of how certain matters affected European countries for long periods of time in the last two millennia is quite enlightening.

I will give you the Thames Frost Fairs as a British example of how climatic events can change over a much shorter period of time.

OK, I should clarify that I'm referring to climatic changes of magnitude comparable to the global warming caused by CO2 emissions. Stories of the Thames freezing over sound dramatic, but that still results from fluctuations in the climate (on a timescale of centuries) that are still much smaller and slower than the change now occurring.

Take a look at the graph at the top right of this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age (Yes I know it's only Wikipedia, I don't have time to dig out anything more authoritative right now). And consider that from that graph, the global temperature drop during the 'little ice age' associated with the Thames freezing over appears to be rather smaller than 1 degC, whereas the worst case predictions for increase over the next century are coming out at almost 5 degC - and that's not a fluctuation, it's merely the likely start of a continuous increase - the temperature would go on increasing after that (obviously though that's worst case if nothing is done to reduce CO2 emissions, hopefully it won't come to that).
 
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Greenback

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I'd be surprised if our actions didn't have an affect on the climate on the planet, even if it's just to accelerate the natural cycles and change the atmosphere. I would say it's more arrogant to believe that humanity can more or less do what it wants with impunity.
 

Busaholic

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I'd be surprised if our actions didn't have an affect on the climate on the planet, even if it's just to accelerate the natural cycles and change the atmosphere. I would say it's more arrogant to believe that humanity can more or less do what it wants with impunity.

Yes, and it's often driven by greed more than necessity, like the disappearance of the Amazon rain forests. I remember reading back in the 1970s that the coming North Sea oil bonanza was going to make all Brits rich beyond the dreams of Croesus, the only problem being what to do with all the leisure time and finding a way of spending all the money we'd accumulate. Where did I read that? In every damn newspaper/magazine, heard on every radio and television station at the time until the penny began to gradually drop (after the first privatisation, of British Gas) that, once again, we'd been conned, aided and abetted as always by our own wishful thinking.
 

Blamethrower

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Global warming IS natural, we wouldn't be here without it.

Anyone who says it is mad-made is talking out of their rear-end and just trying to eco-fascist you into buying some "green" product of theirs, or it's the government trying to find new ways to tax the electorate
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'd be surprised if our actions didn't have an affect on the climate on the planet, even if it's just to accelerate the natural cycles and change the atmosphere. I would say it's more arrogant to believe that humanity can more or less do what it wants with impunity.

It only becomes an issue when the population reaches a level that is unsustainable. Then when it does, how can you guarantee that some sort of concensus can be reached?

You can't. Start population control measures right now to save the planet becasue nothing we can can do right here right now, can change anything whilst we have outsourced all of our manufacturing to places outside of our control.

I believe that we will ruin our planet from over-population, rubbish, filth and segregation before any domesday scenario from the panic merchants comes true.

Who says that we weren't MEANT to dig everything out of the ground and set fire to it? We think we're so advanced but the truth is that we are not. We still think that peeling a cow and stretching it over some cushions makes it "luxury", that's what the Romans would've done.

We aren't meant to do anything other than what we are doing, there is simply no other reality in which the human race belongs. We like fighting each other, killing each other, getting one over one another etc etc. Unless there is a parallel existance, our lives are our destiny, nothing more.

Predictions and domesday scenarios do nothing but manipulate the weak-minded into living in fear. Live in the moment, do what you need to do to get by without infringing on other people.

Pre-occupying your mind with anything other than that and you'll end up having a nervous breakdown.
 

DynamicSpirit

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Global warming IS natural, we wouldn't be here without it.

Anyone who says it is mad-made is talking out of their rear-end and just trying to eco-fascist you into buying some "green" product of theirs, or it's the government trying to find new ways to tax the electorate

Sounds like the typical don't-trust-anyone conspiracy theorist. No, I'm sorry but you are completely wrong. Climate changed caused by our CO2 emissions is well documented. It's been the subject of massive scientific research over decades. We know perfectly well that burning fossil fuels is pumping massive amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere. We know that CO2 traps heat from the sun, preventing some of it from being radiated back into space, and we know that as a result, the average temperature of the earth is rising. There is no plausible doubt about any of that, the mechanisms are well known and not remotely controversial amongst scientists.

What is not yet fully understood is precisely to what extent temperatures will rise, or the precise details of how this will effect the climate in different parts of the world - because there are many complicating factors that impact those calculations - such as natural absorption of CO2 by the sea. But those controversies lie in the details, not in the basic fact of human-induced climate change happening.
 

NSEFAN

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Blamethrower said:
Global warming IS natural, we wouldn't be here without it.
I don't think anyone could argue that climatic changes aren't a natural phenomenon, but the issue is with us changing the atmosphere at a rate which is greater than would have otherwise happened. It is unlikely that we will cause the end of the world by doing this, but by making the climate more unstable we will be making our lives more difficult than they need be. Making more work for ourselves is just stupid.
 

DynamicSpirit

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Ah yes, the idea that the air has stopped warming and the heat is mystically going into the deep sea. Nothing but speculation and since debunked.

Will NASA do as to where I got that idea from?

http://www.nasa.gov/press/2014/octo...th-s-ocean-abyss-has-not-warmed/#.VF_EWPmsVik

Without having time to go into the details of that particular report, I fear you're making the same mistake that many politicians who try to deny climate change make: Confusing controversy over the precise details of how the climate will change with the fact that it is happening.

There is really no controversy [1] about the fact of climate change happening or about the cause being man-made. Sure, there is still ongoing research and uncertainty about some of the details - and that means you could find hundreds of research papers that question aspects of various climate change models, or that seek to improve on the models and the forecasts. None of that implies doubt about the basic fact of climate change happening.

[1] Well, unless you believe various conspiracy theorists and politicians, who are not scientists and who by and large, do not understand the science.
 
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AM9

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.... I will give you the Thames Frost Fairs as a British example of how climatic events can change over a much shorter period of time.

When I was at school, after a school visit to the London Museum in Kensington Palace, the question we all asked was, 'why doesn't the Thames freeze over now'. The answer given didn't mention temperatures at all, it was all put down to the flow of the Thames. Before the embankments were built, the river was nearly twice as wide, much shallower and flowed much slower. This meant that the river more prone to ice formation in winter. The original London Bridge, (the one with houses and executed heads on it) had many piers and restricted flow channels which with the presence of ice floes, would block and act as a barrage to flow in both directions. On occasional years, it would freeze over during a cold winter snap.
The mini ice age that everybody seems to quote was, as Dynamic Spirit says was just a minor cyclic low in temperature. It is believed to have been caused by the coincidence of three natural random events peaking: volcano eruptions, el Niño years and very low sunspot activity. All three peaked in the mid-17th century.
 

table38

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[1] Well, unless you believe various conspiracy theorists and politicians, who are not scientists and who by and large, do not understand the science.

But this is exactly what the warmists always do - try to close down the debate.

It's worked OK for a while, but consider what happened when people were always smeared as "racist" when they voiced legitimate concern about immigration. Given we are paying for this out of our taxes, it would be far better if legitimate questions were answered, rather than just being told that "it is getting warmer because we say so".

Also do you really think the self-appointed climate scientists (aka "activists") really know what is going on either? If they did, they wouldn't have to keep moving the goalposts every time reality fails to live up to their latest theory.

If this were really science, they wouldn't confuse causation and correlation. They would allow independent scrutiny and sharing of data (that we taxpayers paid for). There would be peer review. They wouldn't conflate three different things - climate change, global warming and AGW.

Unfortunately the whole thing stopped being "science" years ago, and has now become a belief system.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Unfortunately, all our aspirations that we put on this thread with the betterment of future generations in mind, will, as others have said, will be totally and utterly meaningless if China and other large economies who appear to place growth over climatic changes, then the amount that we produce in comparison to them which is to be strictly monitored is counting for naught.

Selective memory is a wonderful attribute when debating matters such as this but when Britain had a couple of hundred years or so burning coal which was a home-based resource contained within the country to be a driving force in manufacturing when Britain was a world leader in this field, one must wonder how much this went to contribute to the early stages of the current problem.

Those who hold their hands up in horror at the burning of timber in the Amazon rain forests for the timber trade or the Far Eastern areas to help with the cultivation of Palm Oil plants need to look at Britain in post glacial times over the last ten millennia when forestation spread rapidly to encompass a vast amount of the land area when the tribes who began to resettle this land area burnt vast swathes of this softwood timber as an aid to land cultivation.

I am quite willing to hear the views of forum members in postings on this thread who can come up with ways to ensure that China and similar nations comply with these aspirational views, but logic decrees that this will be a "mission impossible" exercise.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The mini ice age that everybody seems to quote was, as Dynamic Spirit says was just a minor cyclic low in temperature. It is believed to have been caused by the coincidence of three natural random events peaking: volcano eruptions, el Niño years and very low sunspot activity. All three peaked in the mid-17th century.

As I have already pointed out, the human race is helpless when natural events occur and a combination of these as you quite rightly point out makes matters far worse.
 

Greenback

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Believe me, my mind is not pre-occupied with this issue, I have far more to worry about than global warming. After all, I'll be long gone before anything catastrophic happens.

But I do believe we have a responsibility to at least try and minimise the chances of human actions being responsible for accelerating what happens naturally. I don't believe that commenting on such matter sis enough to label anyone as a panic merchant.

Of course, climate change is not the only thing that can ruin the planet. But it is a concern, along with the other things you mention, Blamethrower. It is real, though, regardless of whether it is caused by, assisted by, or unaffected by our actions. It should be acknowledged as a threat, albeit one of many.
 

DynamicSpirit

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But this is exactly what the warmists always do - try to close down the debate.

I fear you've misunderstood.

It's not about trying to close down a legitimate debate. Please try to understand that the science is well established. The evidence for man-made global warming is simply overwhelming. For all practical purposes, it is an established fact. Amongst scientists, there is no serious debate about whether it is happening or not - not because of any conspiracy to stifle debate, but because debating whether man-made global warming is happening would be a bit like debating whether 2+2 really does equal 4 or not, or debating whether or not the holocaust really did happen, or debating whether or not bacteria can cause illness. The science (or, in the case of 2+2, the maths) has been done, and the result is known beyond any reasonable doubt. Those who would try to convince you that there is significant doubt about whether man-made global warming is happening are - quite simply - whether knowingly or unknowingly - misleading you.

Of course, debating what we should do in response to global warming is a separate question and is a perfectly legitimate subject to discuss and disagree on. And similarly, seeking explanations of how the science works and on what basis scientists have come to their conclusions is also quite legitimate and understandable (although full answers to that are likely to be fairly complex). One of the saddest things (and, frankly, one the most frustrating things) is the way that so many people, including some politicians, instead of addressing the legitimate issue of 'what do we do about climate change' have chosen instead to try to find ways to smear or debunk the science itself, or the scientists - in the process, convincing many innocent people (including, I'm guessing from your comments, yourself) that there is somehow some significant doubt about whether global warming is happening. There really isn't any doubt about it.

Also do you really think the self-appointed climate scientists (aka "activists") really know what is going on either?

As it happens, I used to work as a research scientist (in physics, not climate science, though I had contacts in climate science - so I'm in a good position to know how science works and how the culture works. I can assure you the many thousands of scientists working on climate science in various universities and research institutes around the world, are, on the whole genuine scientists, no less so than scientists working in physics, biology, or any other scientific field. I don't know what you wish to achieve by describing them as self-appointed climate scientists (aka "activists"). (Obviously there are activists involved with the political side of campaigning for action on climate change, but that doesn't change the fact that basic climate change data is researched by scientists).

If this were really science, they wouldn't confuse causation and correlation. They would allow independent scrutiny and sharing of data (that we taxpayers paid for). There would be peer review. They wouldn't conflate three different things - climate change, global warming and AGW.

Unfortunately the whole thing stopped being "science" years ago, and has now become a belief system.

What you are quoting there is fairly standard stuff from many of those who seek to deny climate change by trying to smear the scientists. And I'm afraid on the whole it is just that: Unjustified smears. Research establishments and research journals tend to have very well established mechanisms for peer review etc. There's no reason to think there's any mass conspiracy to prevent sharing of data - indeed much of the culture of science depends on others independently reproducing your results to verify them.
 
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meridian2

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It's not 'smearing'; it's asking difficult questions which, so often, scientists, warmists etc seek to deflect rather than answer. Absolutely nowhere in table38's post was there any deliberate act of 'smearing', and if you're going to say something is 'overwhelming', it's best to back it up with links to this 'evidence' so we can judge for ourselves, rather than blanket sophistry.
 

table38

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I fear you've misunderstood.

It's not about trying to close down a legitimate debate. Please try to understand that the science is well established. The evidence for man-made global warming is simply overwhelming. For all practical purposes, it is an established fact. Amongst scientists, there is no serious debate about whether it is happening or not - not because of any conspiracy to stifle debate, but because debating whether man-made global warming is happening would be a bit like debating whether 2+2 really does equal 4

Again, the usual "pseudo-science" being trotted out I am afraid.

Straight away, I can think of a situation where 2 + 2 equals 10. But then, I am a real scientist, not a climate change activist calling myself a scientist.
 

Greenback

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I've spoken to two scientists, one a botanist and one a geologist, both Professors of long standing with doctorates, and interested in many fields of science. I know it's not a good sample of the scientific community at large, but both referred to a consensus within the scientific community along the lines of what Dynamic Spirit is saying.

Both said that there can be no doubt at all that there is climate change and that it's far more likely than not that it's been influenced by humanity, though it's impossible to prove this beyond reasonable doubt with the very limited data and time range that we have.

I spoke with both of them quite independently after scientific lectures. One meeting was in June 2012, the other in August 2013. Both said that there was not the level of controversy within science that some elements of the media and some politicians tried to claim.

Having said that, like everything else I'm sure that there are extremists out there, on both sides, and that anything they say will be seized on by supporters as revealing the absolute truth of the matter and proof that their own particular view is the correct one.

The vast majority of scientists are more cautious than that, and there is a consensus on this subject, apart from a few dissenting voices.
 

Blamethrower

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I've spoken to two scientists, one a botanist and one a geologist, both Professors of long standing with doctorates, and interested in many fields of science. I know it's not a good sample of the scientific community at large, but both referred to a consensus within the scientific community along the lines of what Dynamic Spirit is saying.

Both said that there can be no doubt at all that there is climate change and that it's far more likely than not that it's been influenced by humanity, though it's impossible to prove this beyond reasonable doubt with the very limited data and time range that we have.

I spoke with both of them quite independently after scientific lectures. One meeting was in June 2012, the other in August 2013. Both said that there was not the level of controversy within science that some elements of the media and some politicians tried to claim.

Having said that, like everything else I'm sure that there are extremists out there, on both sides, and that anything they say will be seized on by supporters as revealing the absolute truth of the matter and proof that their own particular view is the correct one.

The vast majority of scientists are more cautious than that, and there is a consensus on this subject, apart from a few dissenting voices.

I can say that about my better half, in terms of her academic capabilities but to prove the point, she leaves a hot iron on carpet. Academic certificates do not mean that they are right. You also have to remember that the very people claiming it as true are the people who are funded by the government.

In my opinion, Man Made global warming is about being middle class, just like saying that there is no problem with immigration, buying an audi, shopping at waitrose, it's all part of a middle class badge of honour.

Basically MMGW is another way for the wannabe middle-classes to discriminate against the working classes. Only in Britain is there a way to discriminate against people who look and sound exactly like you.

I just don't think that they can accurately judge climate/weather stats based on a computer program that is assuming all the rules that are manually input by the person who is using it. They are using their own computer system to prove themselves right.

For all those crying about so called conspiracy theorists, what was the MP's expenses scandal? What was the BBC's cover up of rampant paedophilia? What is marketing? What is PR? What is F1? What is football? What is sponsorship?

If you label everything a conspiracy (not you greenback) when someone questions the official press release, you're in denial. PR is 50% fabricated so everything you read has only 50% truth in it.
 

Greenback

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The two scientists I speak of are certainly not funded by the government. Both were newly retired, one Australian and one from the US, and they had no discernible agenda apart from science.

I don't think I can comment on the claims of discrimination against the working class. Suffice to say I don't agree at all.
 

NSEFAN

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Blamethrower said:
I can say that about my better half, in terms of her academic capabilities but to prove the point, she leaves a hot iron on carpet. Academic certificates do not mean that they are right. You also have to remember that the very people claiming it as true are the people who are funded by the government.

In my opinion, Man Made global warming is about being middle class, just like saying that there is no problem with immigration, buying an audi, shopping at waitrose, it's all part of a middle class badge of honour.

Basically MMGW is another way for the wannabe middle-classes to discriminate against the working classes. Only in Britain is there a way to discriminate against people who look and sound exactly like you.

I just don't think that they can accurately judge climate/weather stats based on a computer program that is assuming all the rules that are manually input by the person who is using it. They are using their own computer system to prove themselves right.

For all those crying about so called conspiracy theorists, what was the MP's expenses scandal? What was the BBC's cover up of rampant paedophilia? What is marketing? What is PR? What is F1? What is football? What is sponsorship?

If you label everything a conspiracy (not you greenback) when someone questions the official press release, you're in denial. PR is 50% fabricated so everything you read has only 50% truth in it.
I think you're confusing science with politics. Politics doesn't have the high expectations of academic integrity and honesty that exists in the scientific community. Politics is all about winning votes, whereas research is about making a best effort to find out what is actually going on. The scientific community cannot be blamed for poor government policy and corruption in politics, nor can it be blamed for sloppy reporting and scaremongering in the media.
 

DynamicSpirit

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It's not 'smearing'; it's asking difficult questions which, so often, scientists, warmists etc seek to deflect rather than answer. Absolutely nowhere in table38's post was there any deliberate act of 'smearing',

Table38 described scientists working on climate science as self-appointed climate scientists (aka "activists") That looks to me like a pretty clear smear.

He also stated:
Table38 said:
If this were really science, they wouldn't confuse causation and correlation. They would allow independent scrutiny and sharing of data (that we taxpayers paid for). There would be peer review.

That's less direct, but implies that professional scientists are avoiding peer review (for a scientist, that's a very serious accusation, amounting in effect to professional misconduct). Further, the comment about confusing causation and correlation amounts to an accusation that professional climate scientists don't know how to do their jobs (since that's a very basic mistake he's accusing them of). When those statements are made without any supporting evidence, they would certainly amount to smears.

and if you're going to say something is 'overwhelming', it's best to back it up with links to this 'evidence' so we can judge for ourselves, rather than blanket sophistry.

There's a good, although long, summary of the evidence at https://royalsociety.org/policy/projects/climate-evidence-causes/ (Follow the links on the right of the page under 'Evidence and Causes' and 'Questions and Answers'
 
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table38

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Table38 described scientists working on climate science as self-appointed climate scientists (aka "activists") That looks to me like a pretty clear smear.

Hardly a smear, more a statement of fact. But as usual, rather than addressing the argument, the warmists dismiss anyone who disagrees with them as using smear tactics. Of course, they themselves have never referred to anyone daring to question their pseudo-science as "flat earthers".

That's less direct, but implies that professional scientists are avoiding peer review (for a scientist, that's a very serious accusation, amounting in effect to professional misconduct). Further, the comment about confusing causation and correlation amounts to an accusation that professional climate scientists don't know how to do their jobs. When those statements are made without any supporting evidence, they would certainly amount to smears.

By saying "professional climate scientist" you give the game away. The fact that such a job description could even exist says volumes about the whole warmist industry!
 

ralphchadkirk

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Rather than just trotting out the usual half-truths, smears and insults that the anti-climate change lobby seem to favour as "argument", why not produce some actual critiques of the seminal literature supporting the global warming theory?

Or is that too difficult?
 
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