Late trains with no explanations or apologies

[TUC]

Some on-train staff are very forthcoming with apologies and explanations when trains are late. I've even heard some apologies where I didn't think one was needed, such as a train arriving three minutes late.

However from some there is a deafening silence. For example, yesterday the 0808 from Selby to Leeds left Selby 10 minutes late and arrived at Leeds 14 minutes late. The 1740 return journey in the evening had a similar problem, being 14 minutes late throughout. There was not a word of apology or explanation in either case with only the automated station arrival announcements being used.

On some occasions staff won't know the cause of the lateness, although on many occasions they will. However, even when they don't know,a simple apology is surely basic customer courtesy. Why are some staff so apparently reluctant to do a basic communication task?

 

[Howardh]

To me, I would rather have practical advice when a train's late rather than apologies.
For example, if it's running late - let's say by over 3 mins - I'd like to know the eta at the following stations in case connections may be missed etc, or someone waiting can be informed.
But, more importantly, if we are arriving at a major station where connections are to be made - and will be hurried if late - then it's much appreciated when guards explain which trains will be on which platforms assuming they know or can find out; far more thanks for that than an apology!!

 

[Tracky]

It's an awkward balance. Too many apologies with no real information can be tedious and in a stoping train, you could announce your apologies 6 times in half an hour and still miss people doing shorter journeys. I feel people's expectations are too high at times too.

As for platforms at inetrchanges, while the industry is developing technology with apps showing booked platforms I will still only announce platforms if I have spoken to the station staff to confirm details. Apps and booked platforms can't be relied on!

 

[Class377]

Last Friday I was on a Portsmouth-Cardiff train between Trowbridge and Bristol which was running about 2 or 3 minutes late. No problem, I thought, until it sat at Warminster for over 5 minutes and the delay ballooned to 8 minutes (when you have a tight but official connection to an hourly service in Bristol, not ideal!).

No announcement of it apart from the "sorry to announce" with no reasoning, and it was only when we got to Bath (some 20 minutes later) that it transpired all the toilets were broken and they were stopping every half hour to let people use the station facilities! Announcements after each station or even on the platforms would have at least made everyone more sympathetic!

 

[martynbristow]

I've had the same experience of either helpfulness or ignorance.
It tends to be the member of staff and how much grief they get.
One example I was travelling to Manchester and the train crew were waiting and so was the trains passengers but hey presto... No train :/

In this instance they hadn't bothered to tell the crew what was going on and I used RTT to file in the blanks. But the conductor in this instance made it clear when we left she's sorry control couldn't do there job, put very subtle though.

 

[LewFinnis]

Same sort of problem last week on a Javelin. We sat at Ebbsfleet for 10 minutes and only received an explanation after we had started off again - apparently there had been a smell of smoke but they couldn't find anything wrong. That on a train that was rammed full at the front end due to half term crowds.

 

[SPADTrap]

Why are some staff so apparently reluctant to do a basic communication task?

I always wonder about questions put like this, I know what you mean and the discussion is warranted but how are we supposed to know what is going on with individual staff? It would have been easier to ask them at the time wouldn't it?

 

[higthomas]

I think what kind of information is helpful will also be very dependent on what kind of service a train is on. If, for instance a Woking to Waterloo stopper is 10 minutes late, for some rather complicated reason, I think that it is reasonable to go without a reason or an apology, and connection info would be both impossible and unhelpful, there being hundreds of train an hour from both of these stations, few with an infrequent schedule. If on the other hand you have an infrequent service, with tight and unreliable connections to be made, e.g. West of England service, then both apologies and connection help is very good.

I mention West of England services, because it was on a train to Penzance where I experienced someone doing this at its finest. The would announce fairly frequently how connections to the branch lines were dong, got some held, arranged a bus up the Newquay line and gave good information about the wait for the next trains on other branches. She even came around the train asking for anyone going up the Newquay branch so that she could work out how many buses were needed.

 

[Bantamzen]

I suppose it partly comes down to just how much the train crew know, and what the circumstances are. For example years ago I was on a Bradford Forster Square > Leeds train when we suddenly came to a juddering halt near Apperley Bridge. For a good 20 minutes we stood there without any kind of communication, so whilst some other passengers were arguing with the NR helpdesk staff on their mobiles I went to the rear of the train to see if I could speak to the guard. As I got there I noticed the door to the cab was open, and the guard was just climbing back in clearly very shaken. He apologised and informed me that we had struck someone and that the driver was in a state of shock and that he had been attending to him. So I offered to walk back down the train to let people know so that he could carry out his duties to liaise with his control. Amazingly a few people even after being told this took issue, some not understanding why the driver couldn't have walked down the unit telling everyone & one person even started to have a go at me!! That person was left with a large flea in their ear.

Of course that was an exceptional circumstance, but I do understand that it can take time to get details of why a service might be delayed. I'd rather have a few meaningful messages, than the crew constantly telling us that we are delayed and that they have no idea why. Usually when there is no info, I try to get a picture by using apps like RTT to see what's around our service & what might be causing the problem. Actually, there's been the odd occasion when I've been able to give the crew an idea of what might be happening! But sometimes you’ve just got to bite the bullet and accept that there’s nothing you can do. Life’s way too short to start getting angry or stressed about it (unless of course you are on the way to the pub, then it’s time for that train to get a move on! )

 

[notoemt]

EMT these days seems to be very hit or miss whether they bother to acknowledge delays or even stations. Example yesterday the train was 20 minutes late coming into London. The staff didn't acknowledge that or even tell us we were coming into the station. The doors also took their time opening. The previous day I'd seen a member of staff (in uniform, no jacket) sitting down yapping with a friend of theirs all the way into London (1hr 20 minutes). They were obviously working because later I saw them putting reserved tickets on the backs of seats.

 

[TUC]

An apology/explanation when approaching each station as part of the arrival announcement would be sufficient.

 

[EM2]

... a member of staff (in uniform, no jacket) sitting down yapping with a friend of theirs all the way into London (1hr 20 minutes). They were obviously working because later I saw them putting reserved tickets on the backs of seats.

That doesn't mean that they were working on the service on which they were sitting down.
Staff will often travel as passengers to get to their next booked service.

 

[Tomnick]

That doesn't mean that they were working on the service on which they were sitting down.
Staff will often travel as passengers to get to their next booked service.

They might even have been travelling to book on, not yet on duty! Either way, they can't be expected to just muscle in and start doing the TM's job for them.

 

[Mugby]

Earlier this year I was at Leicester waiting for the 18.00 EMT service to Sheffield. It was running about 15mins late and an announcement was made on the platform thus:
"We apologise for the delay to this service, this is due to late running connecting services"

This was The Master Cutler, first stop Leicester after leaving London.

What connecting services?

 

[EM2]

Probably the inbound service into London that had either the stock or the crew to run the Cutler.

 

[racyrich]

The driver of my late departure from Fenchurch St on Monday evening was suitably facetious.
'Sorry for the late departure, incoming we were held for 15 minutes outside the station. I called the signaller for an explanation, his texted reply was one word - Late. So there you are, you now know as much as I do. We're late.'

 

[Tom B]

A little humour can appease people. There was a particularly bad week on the District line a while back, by Wednesday evening the driver announced "Ladies and gentlemen, I'm afraid there are severe delays, once again due to a signal failure at Tower. I appreciate that this is the same reason we have given you for the last few days however, due to budget cuts, we can't afford any new excuses!".

 

[Tomnick]

The driver of my late departure from Fenchurch St on Monday evening was suitably facetious.
'Sorry for the late departure, incoming we were held for 15 minutes outside the station. I called the signaller for an explanation, his texted reply was one word - Late. So there you are, you now know as much as I do. We're late.'

I'd believe it, too, if it was possible to send any text message other than "contact signaller" and "wait" - the latter, I'll concede, does at least sound a little bit like "late"...!

 

[thelem]

One way to ensure you appologise to everyone without repeating the message is to make it part of the station announcement, which does seem to happen near me (Brighton). Announcements on the train only need to happen as the delay is changing (increasing or decreasing).

 

[Parallel]

There is a guard that works on the FGW network who I think is really good at dealing with delays. On a late running evening Cardiff to Portsmouth service we got held just before Bradford Junction waiting for another service to clear it, and then we got held outside of Trowbridge again and were running approximately 20 mins late, he simply said "Ladies and Gentlemen, I apologise for this delay this evening, as soon as I find out why, I will of course, let you know" and then a couple of minutes later he said something like "Those of you wishing to change at Westbury for stations towards Pewsey, Newbury and London Paddington, please speak to station staff on platform 2 who will be happy to help you to continue your journey. For those wishing to travel towards Castle Cary and stations towards Exeter St David's and Plymouth, your train is also running late and you will have plenty of time to make this connection."

I don't think it's a case of knowing or not knowing what causes the delays, it's just getting the balance right!

I've also had an experience with ATW when the train stopped at a signal near Cogan Junction between Dingle Road and Grangetown and we got held for about 5 minutes and the guard was possibly a bit too apologetic "Apologies for the delay here ladies and gentlemen, we are currently being held at a red signal. I would like to apologise on behalf of Arriva Trains Wales for this delay and this disruption to your journey today. We should hopefully be on our way soon. My apologies once again". I just thought it was a bit excessive for 5 minutes, about halfway through her second sentence we had already started moving again. (Though the services are frequent in the valleys so I guess passengers may have had tight connections).

 

[Starmill]

I feel people's expectations are too high at times too.

Consumer sovereignty is increasingly important in the modern economy.

Do you think Tesco, Sainsbury's or Morrisons could just say that they think people's expectations are too high and not do anything about the fact that they are losing custom? People need to be made to feel that they are being offered a product of high quality - especially if, as is increasingly the case on the Railway, they have paid what is considered to be a lot for it.

The Railway must adapt or... well.

 

[trentside]

There are of course times when you simply don't have an explanation for a delay - so the approach of apologising and offering more information in due course is a useful one. In these circumstances it's often a case that you're waiting for someone else to contact you to explain what is going on.

When it comes to connections, with longer delays, I tend to try and work my way through the train and speak to each person who requires new information and endorse tickets as appropriate. Where this isn't possible I tend to do a PA for the next departing connections, with advice to speak to station staff for more detailed information.

 

[455driver]

They might even have been travelling to book on, not yet on duty! Either way, they can't be expected to just muscle in and start doing the TM's job for them.

I had that the other day, walking through the station to catch a train to work I noticed a local service was cancelled and a woman having a go at the platform staff about it pointed at me and said very loudly "I suppose THAT'S the driver".

Don't you just love the great British public.

 

[notoemt]

That doesn't mean that they were working on the service on which they were sitting down.
Staff will often travel as passengers to get to their next booked service.

Yes, I commute so I regularly see this. You've missed the part where I said the individual was putting reservation tickets on the backs of seats for the next journey. Is this also something staff routinely do when they're travelling as passengers? This is what made me think the individual concerned was working. When before I thought they were just travelling. That and the fact the friend said while they were doing this and had again stopped to chat - "Oh I'll let you get back to work" or something along those lines.

In any case on this journey we didn't see any staff checking tickets the entire journey which seems to be typical these days. Some staff are very prompt about walking through checking and making announcements. Others seem to MIA.

 

[EM2]

Yes, I commute so I regularly see this. You've missed the part where I said the individual was putting reservation tickets on the backs of seats for the next journey.

No, I didn't miss it at all. You said they were 'yapping...all the way into London' and 'later I saw them putting reserved tickets on the backs of seats.'
I took that to mean they were in London when they were putting the reservations out, in other words it was on a different service.
For that reason, it's not unreasonable to think that they were NOT actually working on the service that you travelled on.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I feel people's expectations are too high at times too.

Given the stratospheric cost of train travel I don't think expectations are "too high" at all. People are paying Harrods prices yet the railways seem to think Tesco Value produce is fine.

A good mention to the guard on my late London Midland train this morning, explaining why there was a delay (something that the announcers at my station had singularly failed to do) and telling people how to claim compensation for the delay. That's how it should be done.

 

[northwichcat]

I've had the same experience of either helpfulness or ignorance.
It tends to be the member of staff and how much grief they get.
One example I was travelling to Manchester and the train crew were waiting and so was the trains passengers but hey presto... No train :/

In this instance they hadn't bothered to tell the crew what was going on and I used RTT to file in the blanks. But the conductor in this instance made it clear when we left she's sorry control couldn't do there job, put very subtle though.

Northern have managed better than that. They've sent units from Newton Heath to Stockport platform 2 to form the 16:58 Stockport-Chester showing Chester on the front, only for no conductor to turn up. One day when that happened the station announcer announced that Northern would not be running the service due to a member of staff being unavailable, a couple of minutes later the train turns up showing 'Chester' on the train. The train sits there for a few minutes with a confused driver until a passenger tells the driver that they've been told that Northern have cancelled the service. Driver makes a phone call which confirms the passenger is correct. However, the driver then has to operate the service ECS due to no path being available to shunt around and go back to Newton Heath.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Conversely - a train running early into Swansea High Street was announced as such - and the Conductor said "we will just have to get on with it" !

 

[Butts]

The current chaos and misinformation at Falkirk Grahamston around 1700 hours each evening would be alleviated by some clear announcements and switching off the indicator boards if necessary.

The Highland Chieftain is due to depart at 1705

The Dunblane Service at 1711

My Glasgow Queen Street train at 1716.

Even though my train has often gone down the line to turn around and come back for a scheduled departure it is often held for the other two services.

More annoying still they make manual announcements that contradict what is being shown on the boards , swiftly following is another automated dirge that changes things once again.

Don't the information boards run to realtime and display what is actually happening - updated automatically ?

Also my Glasgow train should not be held up for the persistently late Chieftain and Dunblane services.

Mind you a good thing did happen yesterday, my Glasgow service although late departing only stopped at Camelon and was diverted to the main Edinburgh - Glasgow line running non-stop. It actually arrived earlier than scheduled.

 

[alexl92]

FTPE aren't great at giving explanations. I've travelled a few times recently when the train's been delayed by 15 minutes or more, and you often just don't get an explanation at all.

Very often the passengers will be far more reasonable about delays if they understand why they're happening - but repeated station announcements offering apologies with no explanations are the best way to get people up tight. Very often staff have no idea too, but that's not the individual's fault.