Teacher stabbed to death at Leeds school

[fowler9]

We may never find the underlying reasons, or we may find contributory factors which may have played a part in this incident. We may not get 100% answers, but isn't that the same with almost everything to do with psychology?

Your point, which I appreciate, is that there is nothing to be gained by studying this case further. Mine is that there may be something that we can learn and discover. I think we will have to agree to disagree with each other.

Well as long as the psychiatrists stay away from the press because the only link Max Cliffords mates have made so far is that he suffered from depression and was a metalhead. That would be me banged up right away. There is indeed nothing to be gained by studying this in my opinion.

 

[bb21]

Well as long as the psychiatrists stay away from the press because the only link Max Cliffords mates have made so far is that he suffered from depression and was a metalhead. That would be me banged up right away. There is indeed nothing to be gained by studying this in my opinion.

I'm surprised you get so wound up by the gutter press. There is a reason they are called "gutter" press.

 

[Johnuk123]

http://www.capitalbay.com/latest-news1/509578-nick-clegg-s-bid-to-block-knife-crackdown-laws.html

Nick Clegg refuses to even discuss the idea of tightening laws to prevent knife-wielding thugs avoiding jail
‘Nick Clegg said “we haven’t discussed it and I am not going to have it discussed”.
‘He said “I’m in charge of this committee – forget it”.

Give a liberal a bit of power and this is the result.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Give a liberal a bit of power and this is the result.

Do bore on. As much as you might like to think, liberals aren't to blame for every single one of this country's problems, and sure as hell aren't to blame for this incident.

 

[Johnuk123]

Do bore on. As much as you might like to think, liberals aren't to blame for every single one of this country's problems, and sure as hell aren't to blame for this incident.

Irrelevant answer as I never said either of your two accusations.

I put the item on this thread because it's about a knife crime so very relevant.

Any party attempting to block an excellent law like this deserves utter contempt.

 

[Oswyntail]

Irrelevant answer as I never said either of your two accusations.

I put the item on this thread because it's about a knife crime so very relevant.

Any party attempting to block an excellent law like this deserves utter contempt.

The proposals do seem (from the news reports) very poorly though through, and designed for knuckle-scraper approval. Define knife crime. Do you include simply carrying a knife in your "ration"? Do you allow any difference between a bullied teenager who has brought a table knife to "protect" himself against bullies and waves it at them, and the bully himself who uses a Stanley knife to intimidate? Any use of the word "automatic" in connection with sentencing makes my flesh creep.

 

[WelshBluebird]

The worst time to bring in any law is in the immediate aftermath of a related incident because of all the emotion involved and the rush of getting something written down. At least let the dust settle first.

 

[meridian2]

Clegg's comments smack to me as a desperate attempt at good PR.

It's nothing more than pouring oil onto troubled waters. Knee-jerk reactions and laws like this are the last thing we need. bb21 summed it up excellently: we need to understand what causes people to resort to these kind of actions.

 

[transportphoto]

The BBC report that the youth, who appeared at Leeds Crown Court today by way of video link, has been remanded to youth detention with a provisional trial date set for November 3rd. It also reports that a second juvenile has been arrested in connection to the death, however has been released without charge.

I've shortened the article down as it largely repeats details already made clear and thus quoting the article wouldn't be of benefit, the judge also empathasized the legal restrictions of discussion of the case and that they apply to all rather than just the conventional media.

The article can be read on the BBC Website, which of course also has a mobile friendly version, by clicking here.

A 15-year-old boy charged with the murder of a teacher who was stabbed in front of her pupils has appeared before Leeds Crown Court.


Ann Maguire, 61, was attacked in a classroom at Corpus Christi Catholic College in Leeds on Monday.
The boy, who cannot be named and who appeared by video link, was remanded to youth detention with a provisional trial date fixed for 3 November.


A second teenager was arrested and later released without charge.


Police would give no further details about his arrest....

 

[TheKnightWho]

Irrelevant answer as I never said either of your two accusations.

I put the item on this thread because it's about a knife crime so very relevant.

Any party attempting to block an excellent law like this deserves utter contempt.

An excellent law if you all you care about is vengeance. The law won't work, as proven by similar laws in America, and will waste an enormous amount of public money. It seems typical of the right-wing to think that there is an easy answer to all of the country's woes: lock people up for x; leave the EU; stop all the immigrants. It seems like an incredibly lazy thought process. These issues are immensely complex, and it might surprise you to find that quite a lot of us do actually care about the way the country is run, but don't think that there is a simple solution that will solve everything. Sticking your head in the sand and coming up with blanket solutions only ends up hurting everyone.

Have you ever actually considered anyone else's point of view before and why they might think the way they do? You seem to have utter contempt for anyone that doesn't have a total black-and-white conception of the world, and frankly demonstrate an absolutely staggering lack of empathy with anyone that isn't just like you.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

One never knows if this is a copycat-inspired matter, but two schoolgirls aged 14 and 15 have been arrested on suspicion of conspiracy to commit murder at the Cwmcarn High School in the Caerphilly area. The target is said to be a teacher at that school.

 

[Johnuk123]

http://news.sky.com/story/1365825/teachers-savage-killer-must-serve-20-years

A teenager who murdered Leeds school teacher Ann Maguire in front of other pupils showed no emotion as he was handed a minimum of 20 years' detention.

Ahead of the killing in April he had also planned to murder two other teachers, including one who was pregnant.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...nn-Maguire-to-death-as-she-tried-to-flee.html

He said:

"I wasn't in shock, I was happy.
I had a sense of pride. I still do.
I couldn't give a s***". I know the victim's family will be upset but I don't care. In my eyes, everything I've done is fine and dandy."

I didn't realise that he'd told other pupils what he was going to do and even showed them the knife, I imagine some of them are now regretting not speaking out although it's easy being wise after the event.

 

[Antman]

http://news.sky.com/story/1365825/teachers-savage-killer-must-serve-20-years



When arrested he said:

Just throw away the key, and thank goodness guns aren't readily avaialable in the UK with nutters like him around.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Oh guns are readily available enough. But knives are easier to carry and easier to get rid of.

I'd say the kid was a nailed-on psychopath. It'll be interesting to see if he ever gets named. I'd hope not, for his family's sakes if not his own.

I'm surprised that the papers aren't going on about the fact he's an "emo" from a "broken home" a bit more tbh, that's normally what they do; The Guardian will use it as excuse and the Mail will use it as a way to attack "wet lefty liberals".

Even more amusingly*, some people think it is a hoax: http://nodisinfo.com/lies-inconsistencies-leeds-college-stabbing-hoax/

*not amusing at all

 

[Johnuk123]

Oh guns are readily available enough. But knives are easier to carry and easier to get rid of.

I'd say the kid was a nailed-on psychopath. It'll be interesting to see if he ever gets named. I'd hope not, for his family's sakes if not his own.

I'm surprised that the papers aren't going on about the fact he's an "emo" from a "broken home" a bit more tbh, that's normally what they do; The Guardian will use it as excuse and the Mail will use it as a way to attack "wet lefty liberals".

Even more amusingly*, some people think it is a hoax: http://nodisinfo.com/lies-inconsistencies-leeds-college-stabbing-hoax/

*not amusing at all

Judge has just released his name - Will Cornick.

 

[fowler9]

Judge has just released his name - Will Cornick.

No need for anyone to know that.

 

[Johnuk123]

No need for anyone to know that.

You'd better tell the judge that he's made a mistake.

 

[fowler9]

You'd better tell the judge that he's made a mistake.

Why? Do you think there is any need for people to know this lads name? How will it improve anyones life? Why should I tell the judge they were wrong? I'm entitled to my opinion and they are to theirs.

 

[Antman]

You'd better tell the judge that he's made a mistake.

It would have come out on social media anyway and why shouldn't he be named? Apparently he came from a good family and no blame is attached to his parents.

 

[Johnuk123]

Why? Do you think there is any need for people to know this lads name? How will it improve anyones life? Why should I tell the judge they were wrong? I'm entitled to my opinion and they are to theirs.

I don't really care who he is but if a judge has named him he obviously thinks it's in the public interest.

 

[jon0844]

Even more amusingly*, some people think it is a hoax: http://nodisinfo.com/lies-inconsistencies-leeds-college-stabbing-hoax/

*not amusing at all

Wow. Just wow. Seems there's a Scottish MP (or maybe that's made up?) who shares the same name, and supported Israel for something.

But to think the whole thing was made up is fascinating, although I remember reading about people who said 7/7 was faked. Funny how I personally witnessed the bus blow up on my (diverted) way to work, which was supposedly put down as being a controlled explosion by the Government...

 

[fowler9]

I don't really care who he is but if a judge has named him he obviously thinks it's in the public interest.

The judge thinks it is, I don't. I really can't think of any way it is in the public interest. If the guy is of no danger to the public we don't need to know who he is. If he is a danger the judge should be making sure he isn't out in public.

 

[yorkie]

It would have come out on social media anyway...

It was out on social media on the day it happened! But yes, it's now 'official'.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cornick-chilling-portrait-model-pupil-4558275#rlabs=1

Callous, deeply disturbed and highly dangerous - words just aren't enough to describe the cold-blooded killer of teacher Ann Maguire.

The murder - which shocked the nation - is believed to be the first time a teacher has been killed in a British classroom.

The crime has been made all the more inexplicable as it became clear the murderer, who can now be named as Will Cornick, comes from a loving and supportive family who have been left devastated by his actions....

Clearly has something seriously wrong with him; a very rare exceptional case. Not the parents fault, not the teachers fault, he chose that path. A very sad and disturbing case.

 

[CC 72100]

It would have come out on social media anyway and why shouldn't he be named? Apparently he came from a good family and no blame is attached to his parents.

I really hope that his family don't suffer from this - if they are as innocent as everything suggests (and that it isn't for one minute an attack on them, far from it) then they have done nothing wrong, yet I wonder/worry whether they may targeted as a sort of 'revenge' for what is, as Yorkie said, a very sad and disturbing case.

 

[bb21]

I really hope that his family don't suffer from this - if they are as innocent as everything suggests (and that it isn't for one minute an attack on them, far from it) then they have done nothing wrong, yet I wonder/worry whether they may targeted as a sort of 'revenge' for what is, as Yorkie said, a very sad and disturbing case.

Many people won't think like that.

Should the family bear some responsibility for the tragic event? Only time will tell and I think the jury is still out on that one, or perhaps we will never know.

I agree that keeping his name secret after such a high-profile case is never going to work, with the way social media works these days.

 

[Qwerty133]

Should the family bear some responsibility for the tragic event? Only time will tell and I think the jury is still out on that one, or perhaps we will never know.

I expect we won't, way too many parents look to be caring on the outside, but on the inside are something completely different. Of course not saying it's the case here.

 

[Antman]

I wonder what was behind his hatred of this otherwise popular teacher?

 

[Clip]

I wonder what was behind his hatred of this otherwise popular teacher?

didnt she block him from a school trip? Think I read that this morning nad he was embarrassed or something.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I really hope that his family don't suffer from this - if they are as innocent as everything suggests (and that it isn't for one minute an attack on them, far from it) then they have done nothing wrong, yet I wonder/worry whether they may targeted as a sort of 'revenge'

I think they will almost certainly be attacked in "revenge". Although the locals will already have known who they were, I suppose.

Between the cost of giving his family police protection and the cost of giving him a new identity when he's released in adulthood, I really don't agree with naming the child. He might be a dangerous screwed-up psychopathic child but he's still a child.

This whole story reminds me a lot of We Need to Talk About Kevin.

 

[Antman]

I think they will almost certainly be attacked in "revenge". Although the locals will already have known who they were, I suppose.

Between the cost of giving his family police protection and the cost of giving him a new identity when he's released in adulthood, I really don't agree with naming the child. He might be a dangerous screwed-up psychopathic child but he's still a child.

This whole story reminds me a lot of We Need to Talk About Kevin.

Anybody attacking his family in 'revenge' is equally deranged, I'm sure the victims family wouldn't want that.

It is possible that he might never be released.