Chiltern's plan to re-open BMW line to passenger traffic

[The Planner]

There is an opportunity to improve public transport infrastructure to a considerable degree to an area with high employment but limited road infrastructure.

I'm not sure if refusing to condone improvements simply because they don't improve for everyone is helpful.

Im not refusing at all, if Chitern are seriously looking at it then they obviously think there is a few quid in it for them and they are about the only TOC that will pull these kind of things off. What I don't condone is the usual frenzy of finding solutions to problems that don't exist as soon as a partial line reopening is mooted.

 

[D1009]

Another very important factor was that using the route via Cowley would mean northbound trains having to cross other lines south of Oxford, whereas the route approaching Oxford from the north will have its own track and avoid the conflicts.

So if this latest proposal goes ahead I wonder how they hope to avoid conflicting moves south of Oxford.

If I'm not mistaken there are already at least 3 tracks for the distance between Kennington Jn and Oxford, so a remodelling scheme could remove conflicting moves. I'd have though the bigger problem would be Oxford station itself.

 

[route:oxford]

There has been a suggestion on another forum that there could be plans to re-build the line from Oxford to Witney.

However, it has been identified, that the Roundabout at Swindford which joins the road into Enysham town is an issue, along with a stretch of the B4443 and a few buildings at that end.

At the Witney end, the only feasable area you could place a terminus stations is at Ducklington by Witney Lakes. Would be an execent locations for a parkway station, with a large car park to entice cars off the road and onto the trains just off the A40, which would go a long way at reducing congestion on the A40 into Oxford in the Long Term. The Line would stop an Eynsham en route, and would be start to finish in about 10 minutes, creating a 30 min frequency using just one unit with a 5 minute turn around at either end.

The biggest issue in West Oxfordshire will be the terror expressed by the local activist groups who will fear that their rural villages will be destroyed by new gene stock.

 

[W-on-Sea]

(As a one-time resident of Witney), I can't see the railway line really as a goer, for numerous reasons, however attractive the idea might seem at first mention (and for all that the A40 is immensely congested in the rush hour at least four days a week) : First, the various places in which the old line has been built over; second, the need to join onto the North Cotswolds line (including, I think, on a section that is still, at least for now, single track), and the ensuing junctions at Wolvercote and with the line from Bicester; and third, the old thing of Oxford Railway station not being in a fantastic location. Fourth: to be desirable, the service would have to be more frequent than half-hourly -- there are currently seven, six of which are relatively luxurious, buses an hour between Witney and Oxford in the daytime- that sort of "turn up and go" frequency would be required to make the train (which presumably would be rather costlier than the bus) popular.

With a bit of imagination (which frankly appears to be lacking at OCC), I'm inclined to think a light rail/tram built largely but not entirely on the old railway route, and going into the centres of both Witney and Oxford, might be a more realistic option.

As for the Cowley branch: hmm. Again, an interesting idea, but one I am a bit sceptical about - again I think it would work better as part of a larger light rail or tram network , which would provide access between the Business and Leisure parks (and outlying estates) with the city centre, not just the more remote railway station, and also permit the possibility of additional stations to serve Redbridge and Sainsbury's and Littlemore....

 

[Mark62]

It's taken 30 years of campaigning to get ILkeston station reopened. Amazing how things get done more quickly down south.

 

[Class 170101]

It's taken 30 years of campaigning to get ILkeston station reopened. Amazing how things get done more quickly down south.

Disagree on that one. Crossrail has been a scheme on the drawing board in various forms since the 1950s to 1960s.

 

[jimm]

Route: oxford, the villages of West Oxfordshire are in precious little danger from development, if you cared to take a look at the district's draft Local Plan, with more building proposed for Witney, Carterton (700 homes approved a couple of weeks ago) and Chipping Norton.

While I don't imagine for one minute the Chipping Norton branch will reopen - and the houses would be at the top of the hill and the far side of town from the station site - putting thousands more people in Witney and Carterton will only make the A40 even worse.

W-on-Sea, the Network Rail draft western route strategy makes clear that further Cotswold Line redoubling is a serious proposition, at least as far as Hanborough, so that woud include Yarnton junction, should one wish to revive some sort of Witney railway, whether heavy or light rail. And the formation of the branch is largely intact, though at Eynsham a small deviation south of the old station site would be needed. The biggest issues would be what you do at Witney, due to all the old railway land being developed and getting across the A40 bypass, and whether you would go on to Carterton and RAF Brize Norton, which would seem sensible.

Yes, Stagecoach runs a lot of buses, but that's as much to do with shifting the number of passengers on offer than anything else. Put on a 30-minute interval train service, shifting rather more people per train than a bus, and you would do just fine, given the far shorter journey time to Oxford that the train would deliver. Even now it is quicker to drive to Hanborough and get the train in from there than it is to brave the A40 - hence the car park extension at Hanborough filling up so fast.

Re Cowley, it's all very well talking about trams, but Oxford hardly lends itself to such things. None of the arterial roads or in the city centre offers lots of room to build sections of reserved tram tracks, so if you are using the railway formation, why not run trains, which can come from and return to the likes of Bicester, Banbury or Hanborough? I repeat, Chiltern are looking at commuting to and from the employment sites from places outside Oxford, not journeys within the city, though these would very likely benefit from the removal of commuters' cars.

And the worse the road congestion gets, the less of an issue the location of Oxford station becomes and it's really not that far from the city centre, compared with Cambridge or Bristol Temple Meads, for example.

 

[Busaholic]

It's taken 30 years of campaigning to get ILkeston station reopened. Amazing how things get done more quickly down south.

When you say down south, I think you're forgetting that Devon and Cornwall, absolutely starved of investment for decades, are not only further south than London but further away from it than Ilkeston. Please say South East if that's what you mean.

 

[mr_jrt]

Well, the obvious solution to the conflicting moves is to do as suggested and build an additional pair of through platforms on the east side of Oxford station for the relief lines, then EWR can use those all the way to Reading (if Oxford to Didcot gets four-tracked), and the Cowley branch is on the right side to benefit from those.

The currently proposed roads then just have to serve the mains, i.e.
DOWN Loop
DOWN Main
DOWN Through
UP Through
UP Main
UP Loop
DOWN Relief
UP Relief

...though if you have the loop platforms then you have to wonder if it's worth keeping the through roads at all, as all you save is having to move one across. That said, given the value of the land, perhaps it would be worth shuffling the platforms westward.

The above, coupled with NR's proposals for grade separation north of Oxford should cover all the bases quite well.

 

[Buttsy]

W-on-Sea, the Network Rail draft western route strategy makes clear that further Cotswold Line redoubling is a serious proposition, at least as far as Hanborough, so that woud include Yarnton junction, should one wish to revive some sort of Witney railway, whether heavy or light rail. And the formation of the branch is largely intact, though at Eynsham a small deviation south of the old station site would be needed. The biggest issues would be what you do at Witney, due to all the old railway land being developed and getting across the A40 bypass, and whether you would go on to Carterton and RAF Brize Norton, which would seem sensible.

Yes, Stagecoach runs a lot of buses, but that's as much to do with shifting the number of passengers on offer than anything else. Put on a 30-minute interval train service, shifting rather more people per train than a bus, and you would do just fine, given the far shorter journey time to Oxford that the train would deliver. Even now it is quicker to drive to Hanborough and get the train in from there than it is to brave the A40 - hence the car park extension at Hanborough filling up so fast.

Again, rather than following the old route, perhaps a new route would be more effective? If you come off the Cotswold line south of Burleigh Farm on the Cassington - Bladon road (sewage works area), swing round to the west of Cassington, cross the Eynsham - Hanborough road and have a parkway station for the A40 and Eynsham at the back or Wasties garage (Tescos). Then you'd follow the A40 to the north (going round Barnard Gate to the north), cross over the B4022 Oxford Road into Witney, under the Cogges - Stanton Harcourt road using the current bridge if possible and then swing into Witney town centre with the station being built to the east of the Leisure Centre, by the footpath linking Cogges Manor Farm to the town centre.

This wouldn't involve using a great deal of built on land and offer an alternative to Hanborough station for those who would find the centre of Witney awkward to get to for the trains (most people living in the Deer Park and Wood Green areas).

The service you could then offer is Witney - Morris Cowley at a 30 min frequency in the daytime and hourly after 7pm.

 

[The Planner]

Pretty sure Chiltern are running some sort of press junket train down the branch wednesday? Heard rumours of some sort of temporary platform at the science park, no idea if true.

 

[route:oxford]

Pretty sure Chiltern are running some sort of press junket train down the branch wednesday? Heard rumours of some sort of temporary platform at the science park, no idea if true.

Interesting.

Given the predominantly tree-lined embankments at the Science Park, it's perhaps more likely to be slightly further along at the Kassam Stadium where it is more open. But I could be wrong.

The other alternative is, if BMW are participating to, to build a temporary platform at the plant.

If I see anything in daylight hours, I'll take a few snaps.

Just wonder if the a route learning 121 has already been along the tracks...

Anything of note on the internal timetable?

 

[muddythefish]

Once again Chiltern showing the way on innovation and ideas for growth - isn't this how all privatised franchises should be ??

I wish they would look north to Brackley and possibly on to Rugby. Brackley is poised for massive expansion over the next 20 years and would benefit enormously from the return of the railway.

 

[The Planner]

1V98 and 1U99 on Wednesday by the looks of it. As for Brackley, cant see it to be honest as that is a big job.

 

[Class 170101]

And schedules of the trains in question from Realtime trains for those interested, schedules at Oxford.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...05/0000-2359?stp=VS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=CH

 

[CyrusWuff]

Once again Chiltern showing the way on innovation and ideas for growth - isn't this how all privatised franchises should be ??

I wish they would look north to Brackley and possibly on to Rugby. Brackley is poised for massive expansion over the next 20 years and would benefit enormously from the return of the railway.

Brackley and a Rugby Parkway are in the "long term" possibilities in the Chiltern franchise agreement, along with the erstwhile West Hampstead Interchange; Ardley Parkway, which would presumably connect to a new Junction 9A on the M40; Chiltern "Metro" providing 2tph between Marylebone and West Ruislip, calling at all intermediate stations; and Electrification in the longer term.

However, given the franchise now has barely seven years to run, I can't see anything other than relatively inexpensive "quick wins" getting the go ahead, but I'm willing to be proven wrong!

 

[Oxfordblues]

First train ran today:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U55180/2014/11/05/advanced

A brilliantly-organised Chiltern Railways special to launch the project full of lots of senior railway and local government officers who all seemed very enthusiastic about it. A temporary halt at Oxford Science Park allowed us to alight for a presentation of what is proposed.

 

[The Planner]

The brochure seemed pretty well put together I have to say.

 

[starlightEXPRESS]

Ardley Parkway, which would presumably connect to a new Junction 9A on the M40.

Silverstone Parkway surely...

(Only 15 miles/30 mins onward transfer by road...)

 

[The Planner]

You would never get a new junction on the M40 that close to the existing. If they ever reopened a station at Ardley it would be where the old one was on the B430.

 

[route:oxford]

First train ran today:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U55180/2014/11/05/advanced

A brilliantly-organised Chiltern Railways special to launch the project full of lots of senior railway and local government officers who all seemed very enthusiastic about it. A temporary halt at Oxford Science Park allowed us to alight for a presentation of what is proposed.

Which unit did they use and where in the Science Park was the halt located?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Silverstone Parkway surely...

(Only 15 miles/30 mins onward transfer by road...)

Pointless, ever tried to get into Silverstone by road when either F1 or MotoGp, Superbikes championship is on? It takes hours! You'd be better off rebuilding the line to Buckingham which is a lot nearer, but it ain't gonna happen!

 

[saltley 1394]

Which unit did they use and where in the Science Park was the halt located?

168219 was the unit used.

 

[21C101]

You would never get a new junction on the M40 that close to the existing. If they ever reopened a station at Ardley it would be where the old one was on the B430.

Indeed, Ardley village is right next to Junction 10 of the M40, possibly the worst designed motorway junction in the world. Its often quicker if going from the A34 to the A43 to go up the B430 (which of course is the old A43 so quite a good road)

http://www.cbrd.co.uk/badjunctions/40-43/

 

[CyrusWuff]

You would never get a new junction on the M40 that close to the existing. If they ever reopened a station at Ardley it would be where the old one was on the B430.

Have to admit that I didn't check the lay of the land before making that suggestion. I just assumed that, being a B road, it wouldn't really be up to servicing a Parkway station. There's also the small matter of traffic having to pass through Ardley itself to access the M40 and A43.

 

[67018]

Have to admit that I didn't check the lay of the land before making that suggestion. I just assumed that, being a B road, it wouldn't really be up to servicing a Parkway station. There's also the small matter of traffic having to pass through Ardley itself to access the M40 and A43.

Indeed, it's quite often better to use both the B430 and B4100 round there, being the ex A43 and A41, especially if it avoids that appalling junction which would have to be rebuilt if there was a parkway station.

But what purpose would a parkway serve? - unless there's a lot of new housing (which the local plan currently puts mainly in Banbury and Bicester), it doesn't seem to serve anywhere in particular. Brackley, maybe, but it's probably just as easy to go to Banbury from there.

And serving Brackley itself seems a pipe dream given the need for miles of line through nowhere in particular, presumably to join on to the Aylesbury route so it would take an age to get into London. Unlikely unless done as a means of buying off opposition to HS2!

 

[route:oxford]

News items on today's BBC Oxford News - available on Iplayer.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04n5npd/bbc-oxford-news-05112014

 

[Dampflok]

A couple of shots of today's train now up on my site:



and:



images are "clickable" to take you to larger shots on my site, with full captions.

Cheers, Geoff

 

[MotorcycleAlan]

Shhhhhh
Please don't tell everyone about the B430 short cut, or everyone will use it and it will be like the old days when it was the A43. (Or it will have humps every 200 yards).

 

[giblets]

News items on today's BBC Oxford News - available on Iplayer.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04n5npd/bbc-oxford-news-05112014

For those watching, the interesting/ relevant bit is 6:35min in!
Hopefully would drop the amount of traffic on the A34 too! The whole route from Southern Oxford to the A43 is a nightmare!

What work would need doing to the route (other than stations obviously!)