Nothern Rail DR&PU letter received

[Lichen]

Hi,

I have just received the letter from the Debt Recovery and Prosecution Unit asking for me to either send the letter back of write any comments on the back.

The letter came 5 days after the date they have written and I don't know what to write as I only have 9 days left to respond

I am unsure of what to write but this is what happened

I boarded the train at an unmanned station hoping to buy the ticket on the train as there are no ticket machines at this station to Manchester Piccadilly to board the train going to lime street station.

The conductor never appeared and I couldn't find them on the east didsbury train. there was a 10 minute delay which would mean I was going to miss the train to limestreet station so i had to run for the train and was unable to purchase at the ticket machines there. At this point i was on the train to limestreet station and the conductor never appeared again.

I am not a frequent train user

When i got off at Lime street station they were checking tickets and I went up to the person and said I didn't have a ticket.

The person then started shouting at me asking why i haven't got a ticket and I began to get scared and started saying I left the ticket on the train which I didn't and then the person started asking me more questions in a raised voice. the person then asked me where I started my journey and as i was in shock and fear i said Manchester Piccadilly. The person wrote down things in their note book but I just signed to say it was true without reading it as I just wanted to get out of the situation.

I am really scared I am going to get a criminal record as It will affect my job and my life profession.

Please help.

Thanks

 

[185143]

If the ticket office at East Didsbury was closed, you should have been able to purchase the correct ticket at Lime Street as you are not expected to delay your journey to buy a ticket unless you arrive at the station late that is!

The usual advice given is to write a grovelling letter back to Northern and offer an out of Court settlement if it has gone this far, which it sounds like it has. You may have problems proving you came from East Didsbury though as it was presumably unstaffed at the time you travelled. Even if they do believe you came from East Didsbury, it will then be looked at as a case of short faring.

Assuming you are not already known to Northern for fare evasion, they may consider an Out of Court settlement however they are not obliged to. I am sure someone on here would be happy to proof read a letter before you send it.

It would also help to know what offence Northern are accusing you of.

 

[455driver]

If the ticket office at East Didsbury was closed, you should have been able to purchase the correct ticket at Lime Street as you are not expected to delay your journey to buy a ticket unless you arrive at the station late that is!

The usual advice given is to write a grovelling letter back to Northern and offer an out of Court settlement if it has gone this far, which it sounds like it has. You may have problems proving you came from East Didsbury though as it was presumably unstaffed at the time you travelled. Even if they do believe you came from East Didsbury, it will then be looked at as a case of short faring.

Assuming you are not already known to Northern for fare evasion, they may consider an Out of Court settlement however they are not obliged to. I am sure someone on here would be happy to proof read a letter before you send it.

It would also help to know what offence Northern are accusing you of.

The OP said (to the nasty, shouty RPI :roll that they boarded the train at Manchester Picadilly so perhaps the reasons for lying about where they started the journey needs to be worked out first!

I see Liverpool Lime St doesnt have automatic gates!

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . .

I am unsure of what to write . . . . .

Well, you seem to have written a pretty good summary on here. You might want to add any feelings you have about the incident, about its impact on the Railway Company, about anything you might have learned frm the incident, and about how you would like to progress it towards a resolution. But these are all up to you.

boarded at an unmanned station . . . .
The conductor never appeared and I couldn't find them on the east didsbury train. there was a 10 minute delay which would mean I was going to miss the train to limestreet station so i had to run for the train and was unable to purchase at the ticket machines there. At this point i was on the train to limestreet station and the conductor never appeared again.

. . . . I . . . started saying I left the ticket on the train which I didn't . . . .

. . . i said Manchester Piccadilly.

Your reply should be honest and credible. It beggars belief that anyone would give the wrong name of the station at which they'd boarded and give as a reason a catalogue of errors by the railway company.

The only reason which investigators are aware of for a passenger to state that they boarded at a station nearer to their destination is to defraud the Railway Company of some revenue. Shock and fear caused by being asked where you had boarded is unlikely to cause most people to name a busy staffed station which is closer to their destination than the unstaffed station further away.

It would also help to know what offence Northern are accusing you of.

I find it incredible to think that the Railway Prosecutor has decided what Offence is being investigated before receiving the crucial Statement from the passenger!

But we on here do have the gist of that statement, so it would surely be a Regulation of Railways Act Section 5 offence. It just happens that Northern Rail tend to settle out-of-court with first time offenders for a sum of £80 plus any unpaid fares, and I assume that the fare is still unpaid, from whichever station the journey actually began.

 

[6Gman]

Hi,

I have just received the letter from the Debt Recovery and Prosecution Unit asking for me to either send the letter back of write any comments on the back.

The letter came 5 days after the date they have written and I don't know what to write as I only have 9 days left to respond

I am unsure of what to write but this is what happened

I boarded the train at an unmanned station hoping to buy the ticket on the train as there are no ticket machines at this station to Manchester Piccadilly to board the train going to lime street station.

The conductor never appeared and I couldn't find them on the east didsbury train. there was a 10 minute delay which would mean I was going to miss the train to limestreet station so i had to run for the train and was unable to purchase at the ticket machines there. At this point i was on the train to limestreet station and the conductor never appeared again.

I am not a frequent train user

When i got off at Lime street station they were checking tickets and I went up to the person and said I didn't have a ticket.

The person then started shouting at me asking why i haven't got a ticket and I began to get scared and started saying I left the ticket on the train which I didn't and then the person started asking me more questions in a raised voice. the person then asked me where I started my journey and as i was in shock and fear i said Manchester Piccadilly. The person wrote down things in their note book but I just signed to say it was true without reading it as I just wanted to get out of the situation.

I am really scared I am going to get a criminal record as It will affect my job and my life profession.

Please help.

Thanks

Welcome to the forum.

You boarded at a station with no ticket-issuing facilities. No problem.

You had no time to obtain a ticket at Piccadilly. No problem.

You get to Liverpool and you approach a member of staff.

You then lie about a ticket left on the train - bad move - and then get confused about where you started your journey. Bad move again!

Can you not realise that from the perspective of the railway company, which faces widespread fare evasion, you've put yourself in a very awkward position?

If your account is accurate - and I've no reason to doubt you - then you need to put together a convincing version of events, and an explanation of your confusion at Liverpool, in the hope of a settlement.

 

[Merseysider]

Whilst it is unfortunate this incident has snowballed a little, hopefully you can realise the importance of honesty, and if necessary, taking a moment to compose yourself, in future.

You don't need to focus your apology to Northern on the fact you didn't have a ticket (if what you say is untrue) as it is hardly reasonable for the railway to expect you to suffer a delay as a result of inadequate facilities.

Instead, you should be entirely truthful in your reply, leave nothing out, and apologise for the fact they have to spend time and resources looking into your case. If you offer (politely!) around £80 to cover their admin costs (and the full fare due if you haven't already paid it) they may well decide to accept that offer and leave the matter at that.

 

[FlashingYellows]

So really you got on at Piccadilly have tried to blag the ticket guy that you left your ticket on the train and realising you've now been caught out have now remembered you travelled from an unmanned station? That's what I'd think if I was northern anyway.

You may well be telling the the truth but I'm always sceptical of the amount of hard luck stories that appear on here where train travel is involved.

 

[Merseysider]

So really you got on at Piccadilly have tried to blag the ticket guy that you left your ticket on the train and realising you've now been caught out have now remembered you travelled from an unmanned station? That's what I'd think if I was northern anyway.

You may well be telling the the truth but I'm always sceptical of the amount of hard luck stories that appear on here where train travel is involved.

Incidentally, the fare to Liverpool is the same from both East Didsbury and Piccadilly.

I am 50/50 about this one. Trains from EDY normally arrive into P9 at Piccadilly, which would mean the OP would have had to pass through Northern's barricade of P13&14 in order to reach the Liverpool service.

However, some pull into P14 before continuing on to Oxford Road and the OP would thus not pass any Northern staff. Yet the OP would not need to run to make the train to Liverpool, as they all depart from P14!

 

[Lichen]

Is there anyway that I can prove that I did get on at east didsbury? I work in didsbury and finished worked early to get the train to liverpool to go to a function

 

[cuccir]

I wouldn't worry about trying to prove it, as it doesn't change the fact that (for whatever reason) you said the wrong station when you arrived in Liverpool.

Up to that point, you had not done anything wrong. Unfortunately, this response does muddy the waters significantly - it is a response that matches the responses given by people who attempt to pay less for their journey by lying about their origin.

I'd read over DaveNewcastle's post above again. You've given a good summary of what happened that day. Add to that an apology and offer to pay the fare owed - and see what Northern have to say.

 

[Lichen]

Do I need to hand write the response or can i type out the response and sign it like a letter? the letter I have received says fill in the bottom to say my occupation etc and what station i came and arrived at and to write any comments on the back. My worries is it might look messy if its written on the back

At east didsbury there was a sign that told me to pay at the destination and i did arrive at platform 14 and hopped onto the liverpool train. I was just scared and agitated when someone suddenly starts shouted shouting at me and made me feel as though i was instantly guilty of the offence.

I will make up a draft and post it on here.

thanks for your responses

 

[bb21]

You can write it down however you like it, handwrite it or type it up.

Don't try and blame the RPI for shouting at you if that is the only fault you can find with them. They need to be loud in a noisy environment.

Don't forget that you are not the one pulling the strings here, so try and stay off the "blame game". That way you will have a better chance at achieving your aim of keeping this out of court.

 

[neilmc]

Isn't there some mileage in the OP explaining that when the RPI asked where she started her journey that she thought he was asking where she boarded that specific train, which was of course Manchester Piccadilly?

Regretfully DaveNewcastle's advice will still be sound, it really peeves me to see Northern pocketing these "fines" as a reward for their own ****lessness and idleness when it comes to ticket sales.

 

[Clip]

Isn't there some mileage in the OP explaining that when the RPI asked where she started her journey that she thought he was asking where she boarded that specific train, which was of course Manchester Piccadilly?

Regretfully DaveNewcastle's advice will still be sound, it really peeves me to see Northern pocketing these "fines" as a reward for their own ****lessness and idleness when it comes to ticket sales.

Be that as it may but what can you say about someone who first said they didnt have a ticket, then they lost a ticket and then that they boarded at a station that they didnt start from?

And its amazing just how many people who seemingly come on here and do just that, let alone those who dont coem on here and do just that.

PS Im not calling the OP a liar when writing the above just highlighting that whilst Northerns arrangements may be irksome to some a passengers actions -= of which there are many - are also what get them into this position in the first place.

 

[Lichen]

I have written a letter and wondering if anyone is able to proof read it for me please. Im really worried about this whole situation and i got my friend to write my original post on here. I didnt proof read it properly as I was desperate for advice after receiving the letter from the rail company and realised some details were wrong

 

[Ginger3]

Hey Lichen, don't worry. For a first offence you will get an £80 fine and the cost of your ticket. Write an honest letter saying that you promise you won't do it again.

I know the feeling, was in exactly the same boat as you the other week. Yeah, its a kicker being £80 down but you won't get a criminal record.

 

[Merseysider]

Hey Lichen, don't worry. For a first offence you will get an £80 fine and the cost of your ticket. Write an honest letter saying that you promise you won't do it again.

I know the feeling, was in exactly the same boat as you the other week. Yeah, its a kicker being £80 down but you won't get a criminal record.

The £80 is not a fine but an out of court settlement, and is not guaranteed to be offered. The TOC can just as easily decide, through the courts, to make an example of someone who has travelled without a ticket.

I would be happy to proof read any letter over PM.

 

[Lichen]

Hi all thanks for your responses. In the end a fixed penalty notice did arrive for 80 pounds and the cost of travel 12.8

i have just paid this, can i assume that i can now forget about this whole incident as it will no longer go to xouet?

 

[northwichcat]

I see Liverpool Lime St doesnt have automatic gates!

Liverpool Lime Street lower level (used by Merseyrail) has automated ticket barriers. Platforms 1-6 of the upper level (usually used by Northern, TPE and EMT) have old fashioned manual ticket barriers. Platforms 7-9 of the upper level (usually used by Virgin and LM) usually have no checks.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . .

i have just paid this, can i assume that i can now forget about this whole incident as it will no longer go to xouet?

Yes. You have discharged your liability. There is no more to be ndone about it.

 

[455driver]

Hi all thanks for your responses. In the end a fixed penalty notice did arrive for 80 pounds and the cost of travel 12.8

i have just paid this, can i assume that i can now forget about this whole incident as it will no longer go to xouet?

As Dave has stated, that is the end of the matter but your name will be on the 'naughty' list and if you come to their attention again then Court would be the likely outcome, but as long as you do your bit then that wont be a problem.