My idea for D stock (LUL) on the Merseyrail

[waterboo]

Hello guys, this may seem like a pie in the sky idea. However, considering that the District Line D stock has a fair few years left of service, would it be worthwhile transferring the stock to the Merseyrail?

Of course, certain adjustments would need to be made in terms of how the train receives traction but otherwise:

- The trains are in good condition.
i.e they were refurbished recently.
- They have a fully functional PIS system.
- Likewise to merseyrail - they are in 6 car formations.
therefore they can easily fit into the platforms on the network.
- They can provide the required capacity increase through larger interior.
- There is plenty of the stock, therefore all trains can be run as 6 cars, ending the short stock situation.

Of course, each person is reserved to their own opinion, but I like to know what you guys think.

Many thanks.

 

[Wolfie]

Hello guys, this may seem like a pie in the sky idea. However, considering that the District Line D stock has a fair few years left of service, would it be worthwhile transferring the stock to the Merseyrail?

Of course, certain adjustments would need to be made in terms of how the train receives traction but otherwise:

- The trains are in good condition.
i.e they were refurbished recently.
- They have a fully functional PIS system.
- Likewise to merseyrail - they are in 6 car formations.
therefore they can easily fit into the platforms on the network.
- They can provide the required capacity increase through larger interior.
- There is plenty of the stock, therefore all trains can be run as 6 cars, ending the short stock situation.

Of course, each person is reserved to their own opinion, but I like to know what you guys think.

Many thanks.

Not all 6 carriage trains are the same....

Clue: look at the Class 507/508 carriage length and then at the D Stock....

 

[47802]

Hello guys, this may seem like a pie in the sky idea. However, considering that the District Line D stock has a fair few years left of service, would it be worthwhile transferring the stock to the Merseyrail?

Of course, certain adjustments would need to be made in terms of how the train receives traction but otherwise:

- The trains are in good condition.
i.e they were refurbished recently.
- They have a fully functional PIS system.
- Likewise to merseyrail - they are in 6 car formations.
therefore they can easily fit into the platforms on the network.
- They can provide the required capacity increase through larger interior.
- There is plenty of the stock, therefore all trains can be run as 6 cars, ending the short stock situation.

Of course, each person is reserved to their own opinion, but I like to know what you guys think.

Many thanks.

So why would you want to do that, they are not that much newer than the Merseyrail stock which has also been extensively refurbished, and the D stock is shorter

Why not use 442's they are the solution to most problems, except they might not fit in the tunnels and unloading and loading would take a week.

 

[Nym]

So why would you want to do that, they are not that much newer than the Merseyrail stock which has also been extensively refurbished, and the D stock is shorter

Why not use 442's they are the solution to most problems, except they might not fit in the tunnels and unloading and loading would take a week.

The D Stock also had brand new bogies fitted on refurb

 

[Marklund]

So why would you want to do that, they are not that much newer than the Merseyrail stock which has also been extensively refurbished, and the D stock is shorter

Why not use 442's they are the solution to most problems, except they might not fit in the tunnels and unloading and loading would take a week.

If they increase the linespeed to the 442's maximum, maybe they can take a run at getting through the tunnels?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

So why would you want to do that, they are not that much newer than the Merseyrail stock which has also been extensively refurbished, and the D stock is shorter

Why not use 442's they are the solution to most problems, except they might not fit in the tunnels and unloading and loading would take a week.

More importantly the traction motors on the 442s are on borrowed time and it'd probably be cheaper for Merseyrail to order new units. Probably the best choice for them would be a dual-voltage variant of S-stock (Movia), to allow for future conversion of overhead for the non-tunnel section

 

[rebmcr]

Why not use 442's they are the solution to most problems, except they might not fit in the tunnels.

If they increase the linespeed to the 442's maximum, maybe they can take a run at getting through the tunnels?

Post of the day.

 

[Temple Meads]

Surely Merseyrail should take on some HST's when they become available?

 

[rmt4ever]

There is a good chance the D Stock will go up North... on the back of a low-loader, to a certain location in Rotherham..

Any other idea is purely pie-in-the-sky

 

[Emyr]

What's the cost of conversion from 4-rail-DC to 3rd rail?

 

[starrymarkb]

I'd avoid 442s in the Mersey tunnels with their tendency to catch fire - Evacuating one under the Mersey or in the single bore loop would not be fun

As for the D Stock - it'll be 38 years old by the time the last set is withdrawn. How long would you expect to use them (given they were designed for a 40 year life

 

[Murph]

If they increase the linespeed to the 442's maximum, maybe they can take a run at getting through the tunnels?

Probably best to cover their roofs with emery paper first, for maximum effectiveness. Should sort out any gauging issues nicely.

 

[edwin_m]

Surely Merseyrail should take on some HST's when they become available?

Nobody has suggested loco-hauled yet...

 

[47802]

Nobody has suggested loco-hauled yet...

Well the 442's can be hauled under any AC extensions by redundant 91's

Of course if Merseyrail hurry up and buy some new trains, we can then come up with crackpot suggestions for a 507/508 cascade

 

[dosxuk]

It sounds like the NoL 373 sets may be available for the right price soon, would they be suitable? They're designed for tunnels so shouldn't have the overheating issues of the 442s.

 

[Emyr]

Good luck straightening or widening the MerseyRail tunnels.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hello guys, this may seem like a pie in the sky idea. However, considering that the District Line D stock has a fair few years left of service, would it be worthwhile transferring the stock to the Merseyrail?

Why would you want to replace ageing knackered rolling stock with more ageing knackered rolling stock?

Merseyrail needs new units - something like the S-stock but with fewer longitudinal seats, a bit narrower to fit the tunnels and 2 pairs of doors on each side would be a good option. I'd go 4x23m or 5x20m (I think 23m may not fit) fixed formation, no more peak doubling-up.

Neil

 

[Fincra5]

Haha, you lot are so cruel!

 

[Clip]

Lets not be to cruel to the OP as not once did they mention replacing any stock merely transferring them as additional vehicles.

 

[contrex]

What's the cost of conversion from 4-rail-DC to 3rd rail?

It might be worth doing, just shifting the negative return from the negative shoes to the wheels, the 1938 stock on the Isle Of Wight had carbon brushes added inside the axle boxes, bearing on the axle ends. Sarah Siddons and the Standard Stock track recording train were converted to run on 3rd rail quite easily.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Why would you want to replace ageing knackered rolling stock with more ageing knackered rolling stock?

Merseyrail needs new units - something like the S-stock but with fewer longitudinal seats, a bit narrower to fit the tunnels and 2 pairs of doors on each side would be a good option. I'd go 4x23m or 5x20m (I think 23m may not fit) fixed formation, no more peak doubling-up.

Neil

Apparently it's been said (I think it was in a derailment report) that even the existing stock causes more track wear than is ideal on the sharp curves in the loop tunnel and stock transfer link. I'm not an engineer so I'm not sure if the issue was carriage length, bogie length, or a combination of the two (or something else entirely). I could see it being worth it if the price was right... How many vehicles are there of D stock compared with the existing 507/508s? Could be a way of improving services, again- if the price is right.

Lets not be to cruel to the OP as not once did they mention replacing any stock merely transferring them as additional vehicles.

Well, it's a considerably less stupid idea than the Harrogate line proposal or Project 'stick an engine in and send them to Northern'...

I'll be sad to see the D78s go, though they've lost some of their charm since they were refurbished... But it looks like they'll be making their way up North for a rather sadder reason.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Merseyrail has plenty of stock. They even took some off lease a few years ago.

 

[waterboo]

Why would you want to replace ageing knackered rolling stock with more ageing knackered rolling stock?

Neil

I would not say that the D stock is ageing. I would probably say that we could see it running until the late 2040's.

However, what makes the d stock a good candidate is that it is used to running to LUL frequencies, thus, it can accelerate and decelerate quickly, to provide service enhancements.

I would say the D stock has gone through, and thrived in much worse conditions than merseyrail.

 

[455driver]

Merseyrail has plenty of stock. They even took some off lease a few years ago.

No they dont and no they didnt!

Doing some research and finding out who exactly removed the stock from Northern would be a start! :roll:

 

[waterboo]

Merseyrail has plenty of stock. They even took some off lease a few years ago.

Thats a very brave move. From what i understand, the 3 car services are a result of not enough stock avaliable.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thats a very brave move. From what i understand, the 3 car services are a result of not enough stock avaliable.

Sort of. The reduction in stock was a deliberate cost cutting measure, though I half remember it may have been Arriva Trains who did it.

They ended up in the South East somewhere, Southeastern I think, though I don't know if they are still in use.

Neil

 

[158756]

Sort of. The reduction in stock was a deliberate cost cutting measure, though I half remember it may have been Arriva Trains who did it.

They ended up in the South East somewhere, Southeastern I think, though I don't know if they are still in use.

Neil

It's been at least a decade since Merseyrail reduced it's stock.
They were used by Southeastern and Silverlink/LO, but were scrapped last year.

Though wasn't there some talk recently that Merseyrail no longer needs any 6 car trains?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Though wasn't there some talk recently that Merseyrail no longer needs any 6 car trains?

I don't use it often these days, but my observation is that it would do fine with 4-car trains all day, though for a new build I'd go for 5x20m or equivalent for future-proofing.

Neil

 

[Gareth]

Though wasn't there some talk recently that Merseyrail no longer needs any 6 car trains?

Pretty sure sure that's not the case on most branches during the peaks. It could be avoided by merely increasing the frequency during peak if you wanted to make it permanent 3-car.

4-car fixed formation, as often suggested could theoretically work but it would not allow doubling up. It probably makes sense to allow trains to be as long as underground platforms allow, even if this isn't frequently used. This means either 3-car trains with the option to double up or 6-car as standard. The latter would probably have a negative effect on frequency.

The 6-car trains can be a god send when there's special events on in the city. I feel it would not make sense to make this no longer a possible option when needed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 6-car trains can be a god send when there's special events on in the city. I feel it would not make sense to make this no longer a possible option when needed.

Could another option not be to retain some 507s, reformed to 4 car, for additional services at such times? And then you've got special events on Sundays, for which there would be plenty of the new stock for upping the service to every 15 minutes from every 30?

Though I think there is a case that when the stock is replaced Merseyrail should go DOO, but with some of the staff retained and retrained as drivers to increase frequencies from a 15 to a 10 minute base.

Neil