What is the future for the class 90?

[Class 170101]

Possibly also the French knew how to maintain them unlike the Turks

 

[contrex]

Possibly also the French knew how to maintain them unlike the Turks

I wonder if usage, track condition and driving techniques might vary between France and some of the export countries and have effects too. I think some other European locos may have come croppers in export markets due to this sort of thing, fine on billiard table smooth track, driven carefully, maintained well, etc, but less reliable in worse conditions.

 

[childwallblues]

Freightliner are often short of locos and do operate 90016/41-49. 90042 has just returned to traffic after a major overhaul.
With the forthcoming electrification of Gospel Oak to Barking and Nuneaton-Southampton maybe Freightliner may take a few of the DBS stored examples to bolster their fleet.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

How likely is it that DBS would let a major competitor have them though?

 

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

How likely is it that DBS would let a major competitor have them though?

Well they let Colas have the 60s!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Oh yeah - I'd forgotten about that!

 

[Suraggu]

Well they let Colas have the 60s!

I thought Wabtec bought the 60's from DBS who then sold them onto Colas?

 

[bigdelboy]

I believe there may be some turning to thoughts of naming a stored clapped out 90 as Frank Lampard ....

 

[Wavertreelad]

I believe there may be some turning to thoughts of naming a stored clapped out 90 as Frank Lampard ....

But to the detriment of other teams he has still been scoring goals for City, thus proving the theory there is plenty of life in the old dog still. Perhaps the 90's are similar. And I'm not a City fan or a bitter Chelsea or Utd fan either!

 

[Rhydgaled]

Shouldn't this be more of what will happen to the Class 91's once IEP replaces them.

The Midland Mainline could go down the high speed EMU route which was preferred by the EMT MD from an Interview.

In a loose sense of the word, it is crimimal that the DfT are planning to replace the IC225 fleet with no plan of what they will do afterwards, and that they are planning to replace some of the 540+ seat 8-carriage IC125 trains on the GWML with a fleet of mainly 315 seat 5-car units. I have an idea which could solve both problems, but how to get the DfT to listen to me?

Cascading the IC225 fleet to the MML would in theroy solve the problem of what to do with them, but:

I wouldn't be surprised if the Meridian fleet has the advantage on acceleration. I don't deny they would be excellent in terms of luggage space, comfort and facilities onboard but I feel the 91's gearing will let them down.

Thus, the obvious thing to do was look for places where the 91's gearing would not let them down. I guess that is routes with potential for 140mph (without tilt) and long distances between stops. The first of these criteria (top speed) narrows the choice down to the ECML and GWML. The second (distance between stops) probably rules out the GWML, although they could be helpful for the London Pembroke Dock services which IEPs will not be capable of.

Basically though, the best place for 91s is probably the ECML expresses to Scotland (potential for 140mph, and first stop York(!) on some services). Not nearlly as much accelerating to do than the MML which would find the IEPs ordered to replace the IC225s useful. But, with the longest EMT 222s being 7-car, they probably only need 7/8-car IEPs, which saves the carriages needed to lengthen most of the GWML bi-modes to 9-car. EMT isn't all 222s though, they also have IC125 rakes which could be replaced by IC225s, leaving some 9-car electric IEPs on the ECML for the services for more stops than the Scottish expresses.

Hull Trains have said they will order brand new 125mph EMU's.

Was that before or after DfT decided to replace the IC225s? If there are IC225s off lease, do they still have their options open?

Greater Anglia post 2020 has the possibility for High Speed Intercity style EMU's for London -Norwich. Its been said before and never caused much of a stink when it was suggested. Personally I believe this is a good thing, a 444 style unit with 110mph max speed for a 2 hour journey based around 5 car sets, off peak non busy services single set & doubled for morning/evening peaks.

Do GA's mark3 rakes have buffets? If so, it might be better to go for a 9/10-car 444-style unit, then you can continue to have a single buffet car on the train and not need UEGs.

 

[al.currie93]

In a loose sense of the word, it is crimimal that the DfT are planning to replace the IC225 fleet with no plan of what they will do afterwards, and that they are planning to replace some of the 540+ seat 8-carriage IC125 trains on the GWML with a fleet of mainly 315 seat 5-car units.

I agrer with you there! Not a bad plan for utilising the existing stock and getting the most out of IEP as well

 

[Dave1987]

Greater Anglia post 2020 has the possibility for High Speed Intercity style EMU's for London -Norwich. Its been said before and never caused much of a stink when it was suggested. Personally I believe this is a good thing, a 444 style unit with 110mph max speed for a 2 hour journey based around 5 car sets, off peak non busy services single set & doubled for morning/evening peaks.

Can you please tell me which ones are these "non busy" services to Norwich which are suitable for a 5 car?? Because I see the Norwich services going by everyday and the *only* services that are quiet enough for a 5 car are the early morning down road Norwich services. For example you put a 5 car on the 11.00 London - Norwich and it will be rammed with people crammed in the vestibules etc etc. The Norwich - London line trains need to be full strength all day. No point in having 2x5 car sets as you are just wasting middle cab space.

 

[DownSouth]

Would it be financially viable for them to be given a new traction package?

Probably cheaper to just get a new locomotive with all the modern features right throughout the whole design instead of faffing about with a costly rebuild.

 

[87015]

How likely is it that DBS would let a major competitor have them though?

DBS ones should - sadly - have a future as 2x90 replaces 1x92 (for export) - whether that needs extra ones after the sleepers go may be another question.

 

[SC318250]

90037 was out on test yesterday and there is a few pictures on the daily news feed of it at Crewe on WNXX

Hopefully it will get a repaint. First outing for it since 2006

 

[Lewis Brownlow]

Regarding the future of the Class 90's/Mk3's on the GEML between London and Norwich, the future is looking quite bleak currently. The plan is to refurbish the current Mk3's:

http://www.essexchronicle.co.uk/9-4...s-Chelmsford/story-22939003-detail/story.html

The contract for the refurbishment has just been awarded but the Managing Director of Abellio Greater Anglia said that he wants brand new trains for the line from 2016 (possibly Hitachi IEP's?) and the East Anglia Rail group have also stated that they would like new trains for the region. and are pushing for brand new trains.

Last year there was lots of speculation that the Class 90 was going to be replaced by a Bombardier Traxx loco but that idea has fizzled out recently and new rolling stock is looking increasingly likely

 

[Rhydgaled]

Regarding the future of the Class 90's/Mk3's on the GEML between London and Norwich, the future is looking quite bleak currently. The plan is to refurbish the current Mk3's:

http://www.essexchronicle.co.uk/9-4...s-Chelmsford/story-22939003-detail/story.html

The contract for the refurbishment has just been awarded but the Managing Director of Abellio Greater Anglia said that he wants brand new trains for the line from 2016 (possibly Hitachi IEP's?) and the East Anglia Rail group have also stated that they would like new trains for the region. and are pushing for brand new trains.

A £9.4m refurbishment for two years service? I doubt that £9.4m is buying TSI-PRM compliant doors, but surely you don't spend millions refurbishing a train fleet only to scrap them after 2 years. New trains maybe, but if so I'd hazard a guess that they wouldn't appear until 2019, unless the ROSCO (whose £9.4m I suspect it is) is sure of finding an alternative home for the refurbished mrk3s in the iterim.

 

[SC318250]

90040 now in WQAA pool, so a comeback for this is on the cards having been stored in June 2006

 

[Peter Mugridge]

OK.... as I need both 037 and 040 for haulage to clear, who might be up for a charter with those two doubleheading????

 

[158722]

90040 now in WQAA pool, so a comeback for this is on the cards having been stored in June 2006

90017 was also quoted as being for reinstatement, do you know if this is still going ahead? 90027 was also mentioned when 90034 was being done a few months ago, but that semes to have gone quiet.

Excellent to see these locos coming back, about time some common sense prevailed.

 

[alexl92]

With regard to the plan for the 225s as discussed earlier in this thread, one company (I have a feeling it was Eversholt Rail) put a plan forward to the DfT a few years ago to refurbish the 91s & MkIVs to a new high spec to prolong their life as a cheaper alternative to the IEP - they said it was a better option for the ECML at a lower price, rightly pointing out that these sets are nowhere near life-expired. Apparently even following the IEP announcement they believed there was a strong case for doing it if they're re-allocated elsewhere - which may include re-gearing?

I could be entirely wrong though; don't shoot the messenger!

 

[87015]

90017 was also quoted as being for reinstatement, do you know if this is still going ahead? 90027 was also mentioned when 90034 was being done a few months ago, but that semes to have gone quiet.

Excellent to see these locos coming back, about time some common sense prevailed.

Bringing them back is rubbish, be much better keeping the 92s...

 

[59CosG95]

Bringing them back is rubbish, be much better keeping the 92s...

Better still, keep both! Though I think the 90 needs a new traction package if it is to continue being of any use in the near future. May even be a chance to resurrect 90050 from the dead!

 

[455driver]

Better still, keep both! Though I think the 90 needs a new traction package if it is to continue being of any use in the near future. May even be a chance to resurrect 90050 from the dead!

90050 would be ideal to use as a testbed as it is practically empty inside except for all the broken bits!

 

[SpacePhoenix]

What sort of state is the current class 90 traction package in?

 

[childwallblues]

WNXX reports that 90040 has been re-allocated from WQBA to WQAA.

 

[455driver]

WNXX reports that 90040 has been re-allocated from WQBA to WQAA.

As posted on 29 October by SC318250.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Bringing them back is rubbish, be much better keeping the 92s...

Which are a lot more complicated and expensive to maintain, so from a financial point of view, why?

 

[childwallblues]

If DBS are re-instating 90040 what will it be used for? With the impending loss of sleeper work next year DBS will have no obvious work for its current fleet.

 

[SC318250]

Was it not posted that more 92 flows to go over to pairs of 90s and some 66 turns to go over to single 90s, which would allow more 66/92s to go overseas

 

[59CosG95]

Was it not posted that more 92 flows to go over to pairs of 90s and some 66 turns to go over to single 90s, which would allow more 66/92s to go overseas

Overseas?! Heaven forbid!