New North Wales to Manchester train services

[Chester025]

I notice that the new timetable has yet to uploaded to the public domain?

 

[merlodlliw]

I notice that the new timetable has yet to uploaded to the public domain?

Has of last week, in a letter from ATWs stakeholder Manager to the Chairman of the Chester/Shrewsbury rail users, ATW were still tweaking the December timetable for North Wales,

 

[mikestone1952]

All except the Holyhead-Manchester and Llandudno-Crewe workings appeared in the last couple of days - the 09.50 from Manchester, as I suggested would happen and the need for should surely have been forseen, now makes the usual stops to Chester, and omits Colwyn Bay to maintain the same Holyhead arrival.

 

[berneyarms]

I notice that the new timetable has yet to uploaded to the public domain?

They normally start appearing about four-five weeks before the change is due to take effect.

 

[SprinterMan]

All except the Holyhead-Manchester and Llandudno-Crewe workings appeared in the last couple of days - the 09.50 from Manchester, as I suggested would happen and the need for should surely have been forseen, now makes the usual stops to Chester, and omits Colwyn Bay to maintain the same Holyhead arrival.

Another weird change, the 1650 Manchester to Llandudno LHCS train originally had a 14 minute wait at Chester, but now it doesn't and it no longer calls at Flint, meaning new arrival time at LLD is 1908 instead of 1927. Also, it looks like ATW never got permission to run the enhance Manchester Airport services, as the only trains that currently go there are the existing 2 evening trains and 1 early morning train.

Adam

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Also, it looks like ATW never got permission to run the enhance Manchester Airport services, as the only trains that currently go there are the existing 2 evening trains and 1 early morning train.

That might be because of the January closure of the Airport station to build the new platform.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

That might be because of the January closure of the Airport station to build the new platform.

Regular users of Manchester Airport railway station will attest that the building of the new Manchester Metrolink terminal platform and the new heavy rail platform has seen such works already attended to. Will it be more operationally required works that will be so effected in January?

 

[The Planner]

ATW have been trying to get into the airport for ages, they dont fit so they get rejected.

 

[Viscount702]

The Platform has already been built. However no track has been laid to the platform and no new track work or signalling on the approach.

According to TfGM Platform 3 closed 11 to 16 January inclusive and the whole station from 17 January to 8 February inclusive presumably to do the above work.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

ATW have been trying to get into the airport for ages, they dont fit so they get rejected.

Posting # 185 from SprinterMan says that ATW run three daily services there. Is that information still current?

 

[Gareth Marston]

Posting # 185 from SprinterMan says that ATW run three daily services there. Is that information still current?

Very early in morning and very late at night.

 

[SprinterMan]

The full diagram for the LHCS set is now on RTT:

1D51 0711 Crewe to Chester
1H82 0738 Chester to Manchester Piccadilly
1D34 0950 Manchester Piccadilly to Holyhead
1H89 1301 Holyhead to Manchester Piccadilly
1D31 1650 Manchester Piccadilly to Llandudno
1K96 1934 Llandudno to Crewe

Stopping patterns have changed again, and as a result some oddities exist:

1D34: Does not call at Flint or Colwyn Bay
1H89: Calls at Abergele & Pensarn, does not call at Newton-Le-Willows or Manchester Oxford Road
1D31: Does not call at Flint
1K96: Calls at Abergele & Pensarn

Very exciting to see the new service take shape properly

Adam

 

[Starmill]

Not Manchester Oxford Road? Bizzare!

Anyway that looks fantastic. I can get a Coast and Peaks rover and spend the entire day on the set after it leaves Manchester at 0950

 

[thealexweb]

Not Manchester Oxford Road? Bizzare!

Anyway that looks fantastic. I can get a Coast and Peaks rover and spend the entire day on the set after it leaves Manchester at 0950

Indeed. Can we please make Manchester Oxford Road a required stop for any through passenger service.

 

[The Planner]

Does it fit when it tries to get down to Longsight if it stops there?

 

[SprinterMan]

Does it fit when it tries to get down to Longsight if it stops there?

This is probably the reason for it missing NLW and MCO. As far as I can tell, it has 1U69 1440 Blackpool North to Manchester Airport and 1H41 1516 Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Airport right behind it so has to get out of the way quickly.

Also, on Saturdays around Christmas, the new Crewe-based LHCS set is operating crowd-busters along the coast:

1D01 0846 Crewe to Holyhead
1K51 1222 Holyhead to Crewe
1D02 1424 Crewe to Holyhead
1K52 1715 Holyhead to Crewe

This is opposed to having Gerald do it, as in previous years.

Adam

 

[merlodlliw]

The full diagram for the LHCS set is now on RTT:

1D51 0711 Crewe to Chester
1H82 0738 Chester to Manchester Piccadilly
1D34 0950 Manchester Piccadilly to Holyhead
1H89 1301 Holyhead to Manchester Piccadilly
1D31 1650 Manchester Piccadilly to Llandudno
1K96 1934 Llandudno to Crewe

Stopping patterns have changed again, and as a result some oddities exist:

1D34: Does not call at Flint or Colwyn Bay
1H89: Calls at Abergele & Pensarn, does not call at Newton-Le-Willows or Manchester Oxford Road
1D31: Does not call at Flint
1K96: Calls at Abergele & Pensarn

Very exciting to see the new service take shape properly

Adam

I will have to wait for the official pocket time table four to be published,before I can be sure Colwyn Bay has been officially eliminated from a Direct Manchester to Holyhead service. Thanks for RTT forewarning, but its not in stone yet.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This is probably the reason for it missing NLW and MCO. As far as I can tell, it has 1U69 1440 Blackpool North to Manchester Airport and 1H41 1516 Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Airport right behind it so has to get out of the way quickly.

Also, on Saturdays around Christmas, the new Crewe-based LHCS set is operating crowd-busters along the coast:

1D01 0846 Crewe to Holyhead
1K51 1222 Holyhead to Crewe
1D02 1424 Crewe to Holyhead
1K52 1715 Holyhead to Crewe

This is opposed to having Gerald do it, as in previous years.

Adam

I was under the impression the new set stabled at Crewe was also Saturdays,can some one confirm its not being used on Saturdays
However the extras could be Gerald stock,running from Crewe,perhaps a change of direction and being serviced at Crewe,
if it is Gerald stock or another doing the extra non franchise runs ,the services wont be shown in the public timetables.

 

[SprinterMan]

I will have to wait for the official pocket time table four to be published,before I can be sure Colwyn Bay has been officially eliminated from a Direct Manchester to Holyhead service. Thanks for RTT forewarning, but its not in stone yet.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I was under the impression the new set stabled at Crewe was also Saturdays,can some one confirm its not being used on Saturdays
However the extras could be Gerald stock,running from Crewe,perhaps a change of direction and being serviced at Crewe,
if it is Gerald stock or another doing the extra non franchise runs ,the services wont be shown in the public timetables.

The new stock is definitely not in regular use on Saturdays, the plan was always to work the commuter trains M-F then run the extras that Gerald currently runs on Saturdays.

Adam

 

[merlodlliw]

The new stock is definitely not in regular use on Saturdays, the plan was always to work the commuter trains M-F then run the extras that Gerald currently runs on Saturdays.

Adam

Thanks for the confirmation,the blurb put out by ATW on July 16th, when AMs were playing hell about the 0634 Llandudno/Manchester being axed(which ironically runs on Saturdays from December) said nothing about Monday/Friday only.Morning and Evening peaks can also apply on Saturdays on the busy Chester/Manchester run.
So now we will have two ATW loco hauled sets,one open access the other franchise,except for Dec 20th, both lying idle all Weekend, in Crewe & Holyhead, and ATW say they are short of stock, makes me wonder are ATW so short of stock.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

So now we will have two ATW loco hauled sets,one open access the other franchise,except for Dec 20th, both lying idle all Weekend, in Crewe & Holyhead, and ATW say they are short of stock, makes me wonder are ATW so short of stock.

ATW has spare stock at weekends without the loco sets.
You can see the 175s parked up at Chester all day.
Nothing to stop them being used on Sat/Sun except cost.
They offer a particularly thin service on Sunday mornings.

 

[merlodlliw]

ATW has spare stock at weekends without the loco sets.
You can see the 175s parked up at Chester all day.
Nothing to stop them being used on Sat/Sun except cost.
They offer a particularly thin service on Sunday mornings.

Yes you are correct, Sunday morning in Chester is a 175 spotters paradise,nothing before 8am.
So where does all this spare stock come from on Saturdays, the services are almost identical to Monday/Friday

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Yes you are correct, Sunday morning in Chester is a 175 spotters paradise,nothing before 8am.
So where does all this spare stock come from on Saturdays, the services are almost identical to Monday/Friday

There are M-F peak trains which are missing on Saturdays.
The 0830 Llandudno-Cardiff is one, the 1508 Llandudno-Manchester and 1719 back to Chester is another.
As you know the early Shrewsbury-Wrexham and return trip doesn't run either.
I think there is also less strengthening on Saturdays, so single units are turned out rather than double ones.

 

[Philip]

There are M-F peak trains which are missing on Saturdays.
The 0830 Llandudno-Cardiff is one, the 1508 Llandudno-Manchester and 1719 back to Chester is another.
As you know the early Shrewsbury-Wrexham and return trip doesn't run either.
I think there is also less strengthening on Saturdays, so single units are turned out rather than double ones.

Also the 06:30 Piccadilly to Milford Haven is booked for a 158 on Saturdays instead of the 175 that works it Mon-Fri.

 

[PHILIPE]

Also the 06:30 Piccadilly to Milford Haven is booked for a 158 on Saturdays instead of the 175 that works it Mon-Fri.

This is to allow a 175/0 to be on Maintenance. It was on Maintenance all week at one time, but Alstom allowed it to be used for traffic so long as was available to them over the weekend.

 

[37038]

The full diagram for the LHCS set is now on RTT:

1D51 0711 Crewe to Chester
1H82 0738 Chester to Manchester Piccadilly
1D34 0950 Manchester Piccadilly to Holyhead
1H89 1301 Holyhead to Manchester Piccadilly
1D31 1650 Manchester Piccadilly to Llandudno
1K96 1934 Llandudno to Crewe

Stopping patterns have changed again, and as a result some oddities exist:

1D34: Does not call at Flint or Colwyn Bay
1H89: Calls at Abergele & Pensarn, does not call at Newton-Le-Willows or Manchester Oxford Road
1D31: Does not call at Flint
1K96: Calls at Abergele & Pensarn

Very exciting to see the new service take shape properly

Adam

Bit confused on the new diagrams! {1D51 1H82 1D34 1H89 1D31 1K96} is this set of diagrams MTWThFO or the full week? Also, is this set of diagrams {1D01 1K51 1D02 1K52} SO and is a separate set/loco to the other diagram or is it the same set operating an extra day in December to bust the crowds!

Thanks in advance

 

[SprinterMan]

Bit confused on the new diagrams! {1D51 1H82 1D34 1H89 1D31 1K96} is this set of diagrams MTWThFO or the full week? Also, is this set of diagrams {1D01 1K51 1D02 1K52} SO and is a separate set/loco to the other diagram or is it the same set operating an extra day in December to bust the crowds!

Thanks in advance

The following diagrams operate Monday to Friday:

1D51 0711 Crewe to Chester
1H82 0738 Chester to Manchester Piccadilly
1D34 0950 Manchester Piccadilly to Holyhead
1H89 1301 Holyhead to Manchester Piccadilly
1D31 1650 Manchester Piccadilly to Llandudno
1K96 1934 Llandudno to Crewe

These diagrams operate Saturday 20th & 27th December ONLY:

1D01 0846 Crewe to Holyhead
1K51 1222 Holyhead to Crewe
1D02 1424 Crewe to Holyhead
1K52 1715 Holyhead to Crewe

All of these trains are operated by the new Crewe-based LHCS set.

Adam

 

[merlodlliw]

In reference to thread 202 LNWR/GW I forgot about the Monday/Friday only 1719 service from Manchester,the 0830 from Llandudno to Cardiff Monday/Friday almost carries fresh air,when it runs non stop Shrewsbury to Newport,this is the old WAG 2 slot.
And has Gerald does not run on Saturdays, we have the direct Birmingham from Holyhead, replacing the 0747(158) from Wrexham, However there is an extra train through Wrexham on Saturdays around 0645 to Manchester.
The new 1D34 is already causing friction by local AM and MP, due to it not stopping at Colwyn Bay, ATW must have expected this.
I would also expect the loco haul sets to run Saturdays in the Summer timetables(May 2015) due to chronic overcrowding on the coast services,a two coach 175 set may be OK in January but not in July & August peak weeks.


later, Has I mentioned above, with the the loco haul set stabled at Crewe & being franchise(unlike Gerald) it can operate on any timetable service along the coast.

 

[berneyarms]

These diagrams operate Saturday 20th & 27th December ONLY:

1D01 0846 Crewe to Holyhead
1K51 1222 Holyhead to Crewe
1D02 1424 Crewe to Holyhead
1K52 1715 Holyhead to Crewe

All of these trains are operated by the new Crewe-based LHCS set.

Adam

These are timed to connect into and out of the Irish Ferries SWIFT sailings, and the morning ferry sailings from Dublin Port.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

These diagrams operate Saturday 20th & 27th December ONLY:

1D01 0846 Crewe to Holyhead
1K51 1222 Holyhead to Crewe
1D02 1424 Crewe to Holyhead
1K52 1715 Holyhead to Crewe

All of these trains are operated by the new Crewe-based LHCS set.

Adam

One would imagine that these could well be patronised to people wishing to spend Christmas and the New Year in Eire who will be wishing to use the ferry connections.

 

[merlodlliw]

One would imagine that these could well be patronised to people wishing to spend Christmas and the New Year in Eire who will be wishing to use the ferry connections.

I agree, there is a big market for this in the North West,downside is those for Manchester & Yorks will have to change at Crewe, but a good use for what would be idle stock in DBs Crewe works.