Would Metrolink or tramtrain conversion benefit urban railways?

[GrimsbyPacer]

I am asking for opinions after a suggestion in another section suggested converting a line to tram operation.

Would converting railways in built-up area to a tramtrain setup as done in Manchester improve travel in many other towns?

Should the Sheffield tramtrain plan for Rotherham be copied elsewhere?

Personally I consider the Metrolink line to Rochdale better than the trains it replaced. And I've seen serious plans for the Isle of Wright and Stourbridge lines to be converted, would that be wise or stupid?

 

[edwin_m]

As with so many things it's a matter of horses for courses. Tram-train could be a useful solution where a train service needs to run off the rail network to fulfil its potential, particularly if there is already a tramway that serves that destination. Just replacing an existing train service with a tram-train is almost certainly a waste of money, as the tram-train is not really any better than a modern train (unless it can make use of its tram features) and probably costs more per seat.

 

[yorkie]

It really depends on the line.

The Oldham Loop line was better as a heavy rail line if you wanted to get from Oldham to Manchester Victoria, or connect into other destinations from Victoria. Also better for people with a lot of luggage, bikes, etc. But for someone going from a random shack in the outskirts near a Metrolink stop to their workplace in the city centre will put up with the much slower speeds because they now have a single-mode journey with no changes and be happier overall because they can relax for their whole journey to work. There are probably more people who benefit than dis-benefit, on this particular route.

You can't please everyone, but a tram-style system will please more people on some routes than others, depending on many factors.

 

[Busaholic]

It really depends on the line.

The Oldham Loop line was better as a heavy rail line if you wanted to get from Oldham to Manchester Victoria, or connect into other destinations from Victoria. Also better for people with a lot of luggage, bikes, etc. But for someone going from a random shack in the outskirts near a Metrolink stop to their workplace in the city centre will put up with the much slower speeds because they now have a single-mode journey with no changes and be happier overall because they can relax for their whole journey to work. There are probably more people who benefit than dis-benefit, on this particular route.

You can't please everyone, but a tram-style system will please more people on some routes than others, depending on many factors.

Trams obviously have lower capacities than most trains and cost much less to purchase so the frequency of them is usually at least double, sometimes triple or quadruple, the former heavy rail services, thus attracting more people to them. If they are then able to better penetrate city centres this will add to their appeal. I am not aware of any large town or city that has tram-trains in operation in the sense of how we use the term in this country. Perhaps Paris has plans?

 

[edwin_m]

Trams obviously have lower capacities than most trains and cost much less to purchase so the frequency of them is usually at least double, sometimes triple or quadruple, the former heavy rail services, thus attracting more people to them. If they are then able to better penetrate city centres this will add to their appeal. I am not aware of any large town or city that has tram-trains in operation in the sense of how we use the term in this country. Perhaps Paris has plans?

Paris tram line T4 is a sort of tram-train but only runs on rail infrastructure at present. It is planned to extend onto the street. Several other European cities use tram-train including Karlsruhe, Kassel, Mulhouse, Saarbruecken - last time I looked there was a full list on Wikipedia.

The Tyne and Wear Sunderland extension has some tram-train features and we will at some point have the Sheffield-Rotherham tram-train pilot.

 

[MarkyT]

Paris tram line T4 is a sort of tram-train but only runs on rail infrastructure at present. It is planned to extend onto the street. Several other European cities use tram-train including Karlsruhe, Kassel, Mulhouse, Saarbruecken - last time I looked there was a full list on Wikipedia.

The Tyne and Wear Sunderland extension has some tram-train features and we will at some point have the Sheffield-Rotherham tram-train pilot.

Like DLR, the T&W light metro has vehicles derived from German high floor tram and light rail designs. Clearly they didn't need full skirting, highway style turn signals and brake lights etc as those systems don't venture out onto shared streetspace with road vehicles but there's no escaping the fact that the body shells, running and traction gear of these units identify them clearly as large trams. The T&W units run over Network Rail metals to Sunderland, electrified with 1500VDC OHLE and inter-running with heavy rail DMUs and freight trains. That is clearly an existing UK tram-train operation and special measures were implemented to control the additional collision risks of the the lightly built vehicles, based on German experience. Unlike on the national network in general where only high risk signals, usually those protecting junctions, are fitted, all signals on the shared section are fitted with two forms of train protection, the standard NR TPWS for heavy rail and the T&W 'indusi' system. I believe train detection was also changed to axle counters throughout to mitigate the risk of the lighter T&W vehicles not operating track circuits reliably. The T&W system is high platform, enabling their vehicles to serve the same platforms as standard heavy rail DMUs, whereas the proposal at Sheffield is to provide separate low level platform sections for the low floor tram-trains at Rotherham Central, the only station that will be served by both trams and trains on the shared section.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It really depends on the line. The Oldham Loop line was better as a heavy rail line if you wanted to get from Oldham to Manchester Victoria, or connect into other destinations from Victoria.

I am interested in the speed restrictions (if any) that applied on the Oldham loop line heavy rail route. Could anyone oblige?

 

[MarkyT]

I am interested in the speed restrictions (if any) that applied on the Oldham loop line heavy rail route. Could anyone oblige?

An old LNW sectional appendix from just before the heavy rail closure could provide that info, but I haven't been able to find such a document online unfortunately.

 

[edwin_m]

An old LNW sectional appendix from just before the heavy rail closure could provide that info, but I haven't been able to find such a document online unfortunately.

I may have one somewhere but I won't be able to check until Thursday - please PM me with an email address if you want me to send anything I find.

 

[radamfi]

I posed a similar question on Skyscraper City regarding the recent conversion of national rail lines around Den Haag and Rotterdam to light rail or metro. Similar results to Manchester, with large patronage and frequency increases. Ticketing is probably the biggest problem regarding Manchester, as through ticketing and railcard options are now more limited or more expensive. The same could be said for Den Haag/Rotterdam, although not to the same degree, as loss of national rail through ticketing has been replaced by full integration into the city ticketing, unlike Manchester.